should I trade my ps2 for a xbox?

[darthmango]

<<

<< PS2 has the best games and the most exclusives.

Every single game on the XBox is either a port from another console or is a game that is soon coming for the PC.

You do the math. >>



that is so true..... >>



That is so NOT true. In fact, if you said that, you would be lying. Humph.
While I enjoyed my ps2, and games like MGS2, GTA3, ect were really good, I much prefer my xbox.
For one, the controller is better. Try going back to using a ps2 controller after using the xbox controller for a while and you will see what I mean. The xbox controller just feels better; the materials, size, button feel and just everything about it feels like it belongs in your hands. The ps2 controller feels cheap and coumbersome to hold.
But for the amount that it sounds like you game, maybe the GC is right for you?

 

[StageLeft]

Right now? Hell no. The Xbox library is a joke whereas the PS2 library is not.

 

[xero940]

OOH! A pseudo PS2 v. Xbox v. GC thread

Well, It's simple. PS2 will have the most games published for it, for as long as it exists as Sony's premier system. It will lose it's exclusives to Xbox and GC b/c of the better hardware and greater ease-of-coding. PS2 can play your old PSX games. Xbox and GC won't be backwards compatible, unless:

*Xbox/GC gets an emulator of some sort to be made to run on it
*GC gets a cart slot

GC has the majority of the GREATEST gaming franchises EVER on it, and will get more due to "lack of developer loyalty"...Not only is Mario and friends on it, but Sonic and Sega's folks will be on it, and stuff like Resident Evil, Street Fighter, Crash Bandicoot, Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior, and more will join the fray soon...

Xbox has the MOST POWERFUL software company EVER behind it, and with that, an ASS-LOAD of cash.
The Xbox and GC don't require a multitap to play more than 2 ppl...

XBox and GC are like, AT LEAST 5-20x more powerful than PS2, and GC is $100 less...and don't tell me "well PS2 price will drop", b/c when that happens, XBox and GC will too, just like competing consoles have ALWAYS done.

Frankly, I'd tell you to trade for the Xbox later, or get some great PS2 games now, and buy a GC with the money you have...but the XBox and GC ard far better, HW-wise...

 

[Laughalot]

Personally I think the PS2 is a great system and I really don't see the need to trade up to an XBOX unless you have EDTV or HDTV. If you have small hands, you will hate the XBOX controller. You really should get a memory card for the PS2 and try out a game like Devil May Cry. That will get you hooked for hours.

Eventually I will probably get an XBOX. I am going to wait and see if their exclusive games will be worth the cost, or if this system is going to be like another Dreamcast (unlikely).

It's up to you to decide, maybe you should go rent an XBOX and a game to see if you really like it...

 

[HappyFace]

<< Right now? Hell no. The Xbox library is a joke whereas the PS2 library is not. >>

Xbox currently has a lot less titles, but you have to remember that PS2 has been out longer. The PS2 does have some great games, but because Sony doesn't restrict what games are sold for it's system, you'll find a lot of crap games. Xbox has some awesome and original games. Keyword here is some.

If your friend has a PS2, playtest some of the games and get a feel for the controller. You can then make a more informed decision!

 

[xero940]

<< OOH! A pseudo PS2 v. Xbox v. GC thread

Well, It's simple. PS2 will have the most games published for it, for as long as it exists as Sony's premier system. It will lose it's exclusives to Xbox and GC b/c of the better hardware and greater ease-of-coding. PS2 can play your old PSX games. Xbox and GC won't be backwards compatible, unless:

*Xbox/GC gets an emulator of some sort to be made to run on it
*GC gets a cart slot

GC has the majority of the GREATEST gaming franchises EVER on it, and will get more due to "lack of developer loyalty"...Not only is Mario and friends on it, but Sonic and Sega's folks will be on it, and stuff like Resident Evil, Street Fighter, Crash Bandicoot, Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior, and more will join the fray soon...

Xbox has the MOST POWERFUL software company EVER behind it, and with that, an ASS-LOAD of cash.
The Xbox and GC don't require a multitap to play more than 2 ppl...

XBox and GC are like, AT LEAST 5-20x more powerful than PS2, and GC is $100 less...and don't tell me "well PS2 price will drop", b/c when that happens, XBox and GC will too, just like competing consoles have ALWAYS done.

Frankly, I'd tell you to trade for the Xbox later, or get some great PS2 games now, and buy a GC with the money you have...but the XBox and GC are far better, HW-wise... >>



Oh yeah...and there's NO WAY IN THE WORLD that the Xbox controller is better...it's certainly bigger...but the button placement is crap, and the bulkyness, while feeling less flimsy, serves to obstruct you in a field of entertainment in which 1 SPLIT-SECOND lost trying to feel for, look for, or push the (wrong) buttoncan mean victory or defeat.

The GC controller is freakishly well designed, to the point where your hand and the controller are seemingly one thing. The PS2 controller, while not having the best config of thumbsticks, is far more intuitive than the XBox controller, and is tried and true. BOTH of them are well made, and not flimsy.

 

[darthmango]

<< Right now? Hell no. The Xbox library is a joke whereas the PS2 library is not. >>


Yes, but remember a year ago? When the ps2 had 2, maybe 3 good titles, and only one steller one? And right now the xbox has 5 or go good titles and 2 or 3 steller ones. Sure the ps2 has a better collection of really kick ass games, but what do you expect? So for, the xbox has had a much stronger launch than the ps2 in terms of software, and has lots of great looking titles on the horizon, including some that you guys have been listing as reasons to keep the ps2.

 

[StageLeft]

AFAIK the PS2 controller is, by far, the best console controller out there. GC is far too small and the Xbox controller is the size of a dinner plate.

<< Yes, but remember a year ago? When the ps2 had 2, maybe 3 good titles, and only one steller one? And right now the xbox has 5 or go good titles and 2 or 3 steller ones. Sure the ps2 has a better collection of really kick ass games, but what do you expect? So for, the xbox has had a much stronger launch than the ps2 in terms of software, and has lots of great looking titles on the horizon, including some that you guys have been listing as reasons to keep the ps2. >>

My point stands. Right now the Xbox has a crappy library. The PS2, for the most part, was a useless console for the first 8 months. I was not particularly impressed with mine. I love it now, but I should have waited. Why trade a good playable console now for a second rate one (based on library). Get an Xbox when the library is better.

 

[FrogDog]

<< AFAIK the PS2 controller is, by far, the best console controller out there. GC is far too small and the Xbox controller is the size of a dinner plate. >>

 

[Angrymarshmello]

<< Oh yeah...and there's NO WAY IN THE WORLD that the Xbox controller is better...it's certainly bigger...but the button placement is crap, and the bulkyness, while feeling less flimsy, serves to obstruct you in a field of entertainment in which 1 SPLIT-SECOND lost trying to feel for, look for, or push the (wrong) buttoncan mean victory or defeat.

The GC controller is freakishly well designed, to the point where your hand and the controller are seemingly one thing. The PS2 controller, while not having the best config of thumbsticks, is far more intuitive than the XBox controller, and is tried and true. BOTH of them are well made, and not flimsy. >>





<< AFAIK the PS2 controller is, by far, the best console controller out there. GC is far too small and the Xbox controller is the size of a dinner plate. >>



I beg to differ. People shouldn't judge the XBox's controller from the 2 minutes they play spending it at EB or Gamestop. I know I did at first and I've slammed the XBox in almost every video game thread but after getting one and playing with it, the XBox's controller just feels so much better in long gaming periods than the GC does. And don't get me started on the PS2 controller. I feel like I could snap that b1tch in half. And considering most games use the analog controllers, (at least from the ones I played over Christmas break) why did Sony continue to put it below the D-pad? You're talking about uncomfortable - that is after a long time. The bulkiness of the XBox's controller you don't even notice after a while, but I guess I have to agree with you about the button placement - at least with the white/black buttons - that's pretty poor but the a/b/x/y/triggers are in the perfect spot.

And what the hell is the GC controller "far too small"? It's a tad smaller than the PS2's.

 

[BDawg]

<< the placement of the analog make it uselesss to me >>



I can understand how the placement would be inconvenient for someone lacking opposable thumbs.

I however believe the dual shock analog controller to be the 2nd best I've ever used. The first is of course, the 6 button analog pad for the Sega Saturn (I still love me some Vampire Savior, Dungeons and Dragons, and Die Hard Arcade).

I also believe the graphics in todays game to be very comparable between the 3 systems. I think it sucks that the XBox is so big, and that the Game Cube won't play CDs or DVDs (I use my PS2 as a DVD player when I travel to my in-laws, etc).

All that being said, yes Halo is a great game and so is SSBM and Rogue Squadron. But, the best games by far are on the PS2 (which also has a very good Starwars Starfighter game).

 

[chickenhead]

EVERY XBOX GAME IS A DIRECTX GAME.

Let me repeat that once again so it sinks in.

EVERY XBOX GAME IS A DIRECTX GAME.

Every XBox game is running on Windows XP Embedded and DirectX 8.0.

This means that, UNLESS MICROSOFT PAYS THE DEVELOPMENT COMPANY SOME SERIOUS COLD HARD CASH TO HOLD OFF, it will take the company minimal time to get the game to work on normal PC's as well.

If you could release a game both for the console and for the PC, wouldn't you? It would maximize your return on investment.

Porting the game from the XBox to the PC is no work at all. You just remove the checks for the XBox hardware, and put in some driver support (which you can write inhouse or even license from other companies). It is basically an automatic process.

This is what is wrong with the XBox. 90% of the game library will be available for the PC as well.

 

[Nefrodite]

so whats your point? i don't see all the xbox games availiable for pc right now. they are different markets. anyways, ms lets developers optimize at a lower level then directx, so its not that easy.

 

[FrogDog]

I wouldn't trade my PS2 for an Xbox. Maybe if the Xbox released of a bunch of good games (it would have to be a lot) I would, but as it stands now, no way in hell.

 

[chickenhead]

<< i don't see all the xbox games availiable for pc right now. >>



You will not see this with games that Microsoft itself publishes. Microsoft does not want to undercut itself.

Other developers, however, can and will release simultaneously.

 

[xero940]

<< I beg to differ. People shouldn't judge the XBox's controller from the 2 minutes they play spending it at EB or Gamestop. I know I did at first and I've slammed the XBox in almost every video game thread but after getting one and playing with it, the XBox's controller just feels so much better in long gaming periods than the GC does. And don't get me started on the PS2 controller. I feel like I could snap that b1tch in half. And considering most games use the analog controllers, (at least from the ones I played over Christmas break) why did Sony continue to put it below the D-pad? You're talking about uncomfortable - that is after a long time. The bulkiness of the XBox's controller you don't even notice after a while, but I guess I have to agree with you about the button placement - at least with the white/black buttons - that's pretty poor but the a/b/x/y/triggers are in the perfect spot.

And what the hell is the GC controller "far too small"? It's a tad smaller than the PS2's. >>



Well, first: How big of a person are you? You'd have to be pretty strong to snap a PS2 controller in half. Maybe a third party controller, I'd understand...

Second: I OWN AN XBOX. I HATE THE CONTROLLER. It's far too bulky. And the a/b/x/y buttons are INCREDIBLY BADLY PLACED, as they are all crammed into a very very small space. If you have bigger fingers, you are fux0red...and then the white/black buttons are like almost an inch away...WTF? I admit, you get used to it, but you shouldn't have to get used to bad design...alas, such is the law of the Microsoft jungle It is pretty uncomfortable after spending HOURS playing Halo, which I do so regularly, there is an entry for it in my Palm V

Third: The PS2 controller is pretty much EXACTLY the same size as the GC controller, if not smaller. The GC controller really is like an extention of the hand, right down to the button placement and shape. You will need a controller that is better for stuff like fighting games though...

Fourth: Every game IS NOT a DirectX game. If such were the case, you WOULD be playing Halo on you PC now. Think about it. Ppl work on emus, copiers, and pirating methods EVEN BEFORE the console comes out nowadays. If it were so easy, and so compatible b/c of XBox hardware, it would've been done already...that's not always the case, as you can't emulate DC yet, but PSEmuPro (first game-playing PSX emu) came out within 1 1/2 years of PSX existence, and the first proper GBA emus came out 4 mos BEFORE GBA came out in the US, and in the same month as the Japanese release...and that's notwithstanding all of the emulators that can emulate hardware and demos...

 

[chickenhead]

<< If it were so easy, and so compatible b/c of XBox hardware, it would've been done already... >>



The reason it is not easy is because the executables on the XBox game disc are cryptographically signed, and once the disc is inserted, the hardware and the game executable cryptographically cross-authenticate one another. The crypto is strong and has not yet been broken.

Hardware-wise there is absolutely no challenge.

Please do not talk about something when it is obvious that you do not know anything about the subject matter.

Go here and educate yourself.

 

[xero940]

<<

<< If it were so easy, and so compatible b/c of XBox hardware, it would've been done already... >>



The reason it is not easy is because the executables on the XBox game disc are cryptographically signed, and once the disc is inserted, the hardware and the game executable cryptographically cross-authenticate one another. The crypto is strong and has not yet been broken.

Hardware-wise there is absolutely no challenge.

Please do not talk about something when it is obvious that you do not know anything about the subject matter.

Go here and educate yourself. >>



If disc protection is the issue, then why do something like 99 percent of all emulators NOT CARE that the game is protected, encrypted, or what have you? The emulator recreates the hardware environment in software, so the protection routine:

*comes from the actual hardware (bios, bootstrap, OS kernel, etc...)
*comes from the software (like Dreamcast or PSX/2, and their TOC scanning, or disc-bad sector scan)
*or the emulator doesn't care, due to copyright conditions (like bleem! or other emus)

You shouldn't have to break the protection if you know it's there...and all I did was post and opinion...get the stick out of your ass and be a little more friendly...it's just a messageboard...

 

[Scarpozzi]

Xbox has too many PC type components to be worth getting. In my experience as a tech in the last 5 years, I'd have to say that Xbox is going to bite Microsoft in the @ss because those pieces of crap are going to break down and the only support will either be through Microsoft or their vendors... So the warrantys will run out and people will start tossing them.

Xbox design = suck.

PS2 may have moving parts from the drives, but history has shown that consoles won't break as often as computers do. Just less moving parts/heat issues.

 

[chickenhead]

<< If disc protection is the issue, then why do something like 99 percent of all emulators NOT CARE that the game is protected, encrypted, or what have you? >>



No console up till now has used cryptographic authentication. XBox is the first console to do this.

Playstation, Playstation 2, Nintendo 64, etc, use "territorial lockout" which is the simple checking of a bit or a byte in a certain location. You change the value of the byte, you defeat the protection.

Cryptographic authentication is different. The challenger asks the respondent a very difficult math problem that would take billions of years to solve under normal circumstances. However, if the respondent is in possession of a secret value (also known as the "key") which is a clue to the answer of the problem, the problem can be solved in mere nanoseconds. This is a layman's explanation of how cryptographic authentication works.

 

[wetkleenex]

Scarpozzi-

Even though you know what you typed, I'd like to quote you for my point.



<< Xbox has too many PC type components to be worth getting. In my experience as a tech in the last 5 years, I'd have to say that Xbox is going to bite Microsoft in the @ss because those pieces of crap are going to break down and the only support will either be through Microsoft or their vendors... So the warrantys will run out and people will start tossing them.

Xbox design = suck.

PS2 may have moving parts from the drives, but history has shown that consoles won't break as often as computers do. Just less moving parts/heat issues. >>




now...let me address a few of your points (in no particular order):

consoles won't break as often as computers do

.....right...
the xbox is not a computer.

I'd have to say that Xbox is going to bite Microsoft in the @ss because those pieces of crap are going to break down and the only support will either be through Microsoft or their vendors

much unlike how the ps2 is only supported by sony and its vendors (or GC, etc).

Xbox design = suck.

as an owner of an xbox, i firmly (but politely) disagree. do you own an xbox?????????

 

[xero940]

<<

<< If disc protection is the issue, then why do something like 99 percent of all emulators NOT CARE that the game is protected, encrypted, or what have you? >>



No console up till now has used cryptographic authentication. XBox is the first console to do this.

Playstation, Playstation 2, Nintendo 64, etc, use "territorial lockout" which is the simple checking of a bit or a byte in a certain location. You change the value of the byte, you defeat the protection.

Cryptographic authentication is different. The challenger asks the respondent a very difficult math problem that would take billions of years to solve under normal circumstances. However, if the respondent is in possession of a secret value (also known as the "key") which is a clue to the answer of the problem, the problem can be solved in mere nanoseconds. This is a layman's explanation of how cryptographic authentication works. >>



I see...that makes sense...okay. Thanks for teaching me that

BTW, why wouldn't the cryptography algorhythm/"difficult math problem" be replicated in hardware, or in the console's/disc's software, both of whos' architectures have been figured out, according to that site you linked? Just curious...

 

[chickenhead]

<< the xbox is not a computer >>



The XBox is an IBM Compatible Personal Computer in a black desktop case.

If you open the XBox, remove the innards carefully, place them on a bare table, and have 100 electrical engineers and computer engineers inspect them, more than 90% will conclude that they are looking at the innards of an IBM Compatible Personal Computer.

Denying the truth makes you look foolish.

 

[chickenhead]

<< why wouldn't the cryptography algorhythm/"difficult math problem" be replicated in hardware >>



The cryptographic algorithm and a set of keys are somewhere in the XBox hardware, as well as somewhere in every XBox executable on every XBox game disc.

However, you can't just pluck values out of hardware that has been engineered with the express purpose of resisting analysis. For one thing, you need professional equipment worth hundreds of thousands of dollars to even start doing this sort of hardware analysis. You also need at least a math degree to be able to do cryptographic analysis. In other words, you either need to be very rich (some Chinese pirate outfits are) or you need to be a student at a research-oriented university, and double-majoring in both electrical engineering and math, so you can analyze the hardware, and then understand and defeat the crypto.

This sort of encryption is being used more and more often, which is a great loss for the public's fair use rights. Every DVD player and DVD disc use encryption to cross-authenticate. Every satellite dish uses encryption to cross-authenticate with the satellite to receive programming. Satellite radio receivers use encryption to receive radio programming. HDTV uses encryption to receive HDTV programming. And now, XBox uses encryption to cross-authenticate with the game.

 

[gogeeta13]

Chew on this XOBOX controller bashers


When you hold the ps2 controller for an extended amount of time, your ring and punky finger get cramped. on the box, your hands are spread out in an ERGONAMIC position. I will admit the g^3 is a compfortable controller, but it is no match to the divine controller, the xbox controller, sent from the gods