Should I trust this speaker repair place?

[Modelworks]

What would not be common is a "massive audiophile" to build a set of speakers in the 80's that would not have a crossover. My AR 1s have a crossovers, and they were far from audiophile grade even in the 60's. A novice places caps on HF drivers, not someone who knew what he was doing. Especially if he built them for himself to use. There is missing info or parts somewhere, but I digress.

Caps on drivers work just as well as a crossover board. Crossovers are normally nothing more than coils for low frequency and caps for the high frequencies, sometimes a resistor is tossed in or another coil, but it isn't anything that requires a special board.

 

[BTA]

Give the guys at either Parts Express or Madisound a call and give them the model numbers/driver info. Or you can probably email too. You could provide them with the list of things that are supposedly wrong too.

They should be able to suggest proper replacement drivers that shouldn't cost you that much.

You can also buy kits to replace the foam surrounds if the drivers are otherwise working. They are usually cheap, but it'd be much easier to just replace them outright. Depends how much work you wanna put into it.

They're way over-charging you for parts.

 

[NutBucket]

They think its a substantial repair job too on the amp. Out of curiosity how much would you pay for one in working condition?

I don't care if it works. I enjoy vintage electronics and enjoy fixing them too. I can tell you that it DEFINITELY is not worth $600 to fix. The hardest part (which is really just time-consuming) is tracking down proper replacement parts.

I just recently purchased a receiver because I needed one part out of it to fix another one.

Anyway, I'd have to do a bit of research before I make any offers. What kind of shape is it cosmetically? Is it missing any of the knobs/switches?

On the topic of speaker repair: Fixing surrounds isn't terribly expensive even if you have someone else do it. I typically pay about $20 a driver. Its not worth the effort in my mind. From the sounds of it, these speakers probably have damaged voice coils. There is definitely some work involved if the shop is going to repair them.

 

[Howard]

Dump the speakers.

 

[jjongebloed]

OK here are pics and dimensions of the speakers. I've included all information I can see. I opened the back last night and the first thing I see is a CROSSOVER. The repair shop just blatantly lied to us on that one??

Here is a picture of them both and the stands on the right: http://i.imgur.com/HsPRb.jpg

TWEETERS:
Picture from the front: http://i.imgur.com/R8OEY.jpg
and from behind: http://i.imgur.com/ak1ka.jpg
Diameter of the housing: 80mm (3.15")
The brand is Philips, made in Belgium. Writing on the back reads:
'AD 11610 T8
2422 257 43505
DD 03 807 71'

MID RANGE:
Front: http://i.imgur.com/BhCiP.jpg Back: http://i.imgur.com/VrlgO.jpg
Brand: Peerless, made in Denmark. Resistance 8 Ohms, diameter of housing: 100mm (3.94"). There is a faded number near the terminals which reads 8(?)6(?)409X.

SUB:
Front:http://i.imgur.com/8NeEX.jpg Back: http://i.imgur.com/Z7wdI.jpg
Brand: Peerless. Resistance 8 ohms. Diameter of housing 230mm (9.05"). Again there is a faded number but this one is almost completely ineligible. I think it ends with '19X'.

CABINETS:
With drivers removed: http://i.imgur.com/ElTdj.jpg.
Dimensions are (in mm): 720x340x375, which by my calcs is ~92 litres. Again, beautiful Jarrah wood with no real signs of wear. Sturdy as ever.

CROSSOVERS:
This is what you are looking at after taking off the back panel:http://i.imgur.com/kFDJj.jpg
Close-up: http://i.imgur.com/zpQEI.jpg

So what is the consensus on Peerless in terms of quality? Google didn't tell me much except their lines are now under 'Tymphany' and seem to be discontinued. I'm guessing the subwoofers would be near impossible to replace exactly (the mids work fine, just need re-foaming)? One tweeter works but the other is 'open circuit' according to the repair shop. How hard would it be to find reasonable replacements?

If I'm replacing the drivers with different models, would the crossovers need to be modified/replaced as well? If any further information/pictures would help let me know.

 

[Howard]

What you're looking at right now is more work than a new pair of speakers.

 

[NutBucket]

I think by quoting you the high price the repair shop is trying to tell you they don't want to bother with the job. And, if you're dumb enough to pay their price they'll be laughing all the way to the bank!

That said, I don't see anything there that's "special" so if you're dead set on keeping the cabinets I would go the Parts Express route and find new drivers and a crossover to install in the cabinet.

 

[sdifox]

I would not bother fixing these.

 

[jjongebloed]

Righto guys well now I know. Cheers for the advice.

 

[JSt0rm]

But they do have sentimental value. I would attempt to find tat stuff. The problem with pre Internet components is almost total lack of information. You may want to find a 3 way speaker design that uses those same sizes and put it in the case. They will sound different but if the cabinet is as solid as you say it will help the sound.

 

[Viperoni]

Pretty decent, but not worth the money to repair.
You can do a LOT with $1100 investing in new speakers.

 

[Howard]

But they do have sentimental value. I would attempt to find tat stuff. The problem with pre Internet components is almost total lack of information. You may want to find a 3 way speaker design that uses those same sizes and put it in the case. They will sound different but if the cabinet is as solid as you say it will help the sound.

There's a limit to what you can do without fundamentally changing the speaker to something else. A cabinet is just a cabinet, but all the drivers and the crossover are going to have to go.

Unless they really tied the room together, furnishings-wise, there's nothing he can do.

 

[JSt0rm]

Well my solutions saves the appearance as it is made of a fine wood AND at the same time they could invest in a better system on the inside if they put enough research into it.

 

[sdifox]

Well my solutions saves the appearance as it is made of a fine wood AND at the same time they could invest in a better system on the inside if they put enough research into it.

more likely fine wood veneer.

 

[Howard]

It's difficult to come up with a system that sounds good from scratch. If working off a plan, which is about the only method I recommend DIY from, he needs to find a plan that uses a similarly-sized baffle otherwise the response will suffer.

 

[jjongebloed]

But they do have sentimental value. I would attempt to find tat stuff. The problem with pre Internet components is almost total lack of information. You may want to find a 3 way speaker design that uses those same sizes and put it in the case. They will sound different but if the cabinet is as solid as you say it will help the sound.

I have emailed both Parts Express and Madisound detailing my situation and asking about replacement drivers.

PE said they probably have midranges and tweeters that could replace mine, but no subwoofers that would work in the current setup. At the very least I would need to modify the cabinet by enlarging the subwoofer cutout. PE say the existing crossover would still be fine to use as long as impedance of the replacements is the same.

I got two responses from Madisound. The first said get the subwoofers and mids repaired and that he has a Phillips tweeter I can take the voice coil from to repair mine. He also said all the capacitors in the crossovers should be replaced (beyond me) as they are 'really old and perhaps not working anymore.'

The second Madisound respondee said a complete rebuild is in order with new drivers and crossover since they have nfi about my old components. Also 'You'd have to choose what drivers fit the cabinet and your budget, and we will try to do a new xover for it designed in Leap, and it is important to make sure the woofer will work in the existing box alignment.'

I'm still open to advice but at this point I've emailed them both saying it sounds like more trouble than its worth

 

[JSt0rm]

What its worth is a personal thing. If you wanted to buy your dad soem new speakers there is a lot of speaker to be had at $1600 a pair.

 

[SNC]

Caps on drivers work just as well as a crossover board. Crossovers are normally nothing more than coils for low frequency and caps for the high frequencies, sometimes a resistor is tossed in or another coil, but it isn't anything that requires a special board.

Like I said: for a novice, throwing drivers in a cabinet for the first time using a cap to limit LF from reaching HF drivers, is common. To correctly design a loudspeaker you need to take into account the size of the cabinet, both internal and external, baffle step response, time alinement or the drivers, the FR of the driver, the induction of the VC at the frequency it will be operation at, sensitivity of the VC, electrical and mechanical Q, power capacity and on and on. Then based on the response curve of each driver in relationship to the other drivers, a notch filter to reduce spikes in response, and zobal's for impedance smoothing. While it can be done off a "board" I have a mid air one right now I am working on, this is not something that can be done with a couple caps.

All of this goes out the window when talking about TLs or folded horns. I had a folded horn with only a cap to limit LF but we are talking about a single driver loudspeaker.

I completely agree, some drivers in a box with some caps to avoid damage is a common practice.

 

[SNC]

I have emailed both Parts Express and Madisound detailing my situation and asking about replacement drivers.

PE said they probably have midranges and tweeters that could replace mine, but no subwoofers that would work in the current setup. At the very least I would need to modify the cabinet by enlarging the subwoofer cutout. PE say the existing crossover would still be fine to use as long as impedance of the replacements is the same.

I got two responses from Madisound. The first said get the subwoofers and mids repaired and that he has a Phillips tweeter I can take the voice coil from to repair mine. He also said all the capacitors in the crossovers should be replaced (beyond me) as they are 'really old and perhaps not working anymore.'

The second Madisound respondee said a complete rebuild is in order with new drivers and crossover since they have nfi about my old components. Also 'You'd have to choose what drivers fit the cabinet and your budget, and we will try to do a new xover for it designed in Leap, and it is important to make sure the woofer will work in the existing box alignment.'

I'm still open to advice but at this point I've emailed them both saying it sounds like more trouble than its worth

If there is one each of the drivers that work in some form, you might be able to gather enough info to purchase close enough replacements to make it sound like they did when they were new. You will have to modify the openings some, and replace some of the components on the crossover, but you should be able to come close. This would be a job done because of some attachment to the speakers, not as a cost saving measure. For the money (1-1.6k) you would be better off looking at a entry-mid line from Polk, Martin Logan, Boston Acoustics and the like. You might be able to sell the cabinets to the place that told you they were worth 6k for a couple hundred bucks to offset the new ones.