Should Insurance Rates be linked to Speed Violations?

[Eug]

My previous post was not about any soccer mom or women but the clueless and not paying attention types.

For example, two days ago, I was behind a woman on an exit of an interstate. She signaled to turn right, but then suddendly turned left when I was about to pass on on the left. Almost had a huge collision right there with her.

Or the one that was rear ended my vehicle a while back while I was on a full stop at a red light for a least 5 seconds (I made a thread about that in this forum).

Or a few that almost ran me over on interstate with their minivans and so on...

I had other "oh that was so close" with males and teenagers too but the clueless and not paying attention soccer moms are most damaging to my sanity.

I suspect it's probably your own bias, since statistics show that males generally are worse than females. Maybe it's the clueless and aggressive males too, but bias can make the clueless females stand out.

That's why I posted about seniors as well. Statistically, young seniors are amongst the best drivers on the road, but everyone complains about them because they think they drive too slow (with slow often meaning driving the speed limit). The seniors that are worse are likely the really old ones.

 

[Red Storm]

I feel like the slow drivers indirectly cause more accidents because people get fed up and speed to get around them. In other words they generate road rage.

 

[Eug]

I feel like the slow drivers indirectly cause more accidents because people get fed up and speed to get around them. In other words they generate road rage.

Perhaps. But that's the fault of the drivers who got into the accidents.

BTW, I've seen an incident of this with my own eyes. I saw some asshole driver screaming at everyone, and then at an intersection a woman's car stalled, blocking his path. He screamed at her even more, and then went speeding around the corner. When I finally made the turn after the light, I saw that he plowed into another car.

Everyone was OK, so when I drove past him, I looked into his eyes and smirked.

 

[Guurn]

I think there is less correlation between speeding and accidents than people think.

Personally I had one accident, in 1981, and had 1 speeding ticket since then. I drive very fast, people riding with me commet on it often. No, I don't cause them either. Speed has prevented several though. My wife ont he other hand drives slowly and has wrecked 3 cars in the last 10 years. Interestedly she wasn't at fault in any of them. The last was the worst. A guy blew through 2 stop signs, very close together, and t boned her. It is hard to not get upset even though she clearly isn't at fault because it affects our insurance.

 

[Svnla]

I suspect it's probably your own bias, since statistics show that males generally are worse than females. Maybe it's the clueless and aggressive males too, but bias can make the clueless females stand out.

That's why I posted about seniors as well. Statistically, young seniors are amongst the best drivers on the road, but everyone complains about them because they think they drive too slow (with slow often meaning driving the speed limit). The seniors that are worse are likely the really old ones.

True. That's why I said I did have "oh so close" incidents with males and teenagers too. But from my OWN experience (and not bias as you said), it was women that ran onto my vehicles (literally - one on the rear and one on the driver side (hit and run too) plus the almost on the passenger side two days ago if I did not slam on my brake) and/or almost ran me over MORE than males/teenagers combine. And it was more than a few incidents for me, driving me nut.

 

[KeithTalent]

yes

Follow the law or pay the price

This.

KT

 

[Linux23]

This.

KT

So you've never sped before I assume?

 

[KeithTalent]

So you've never sped before I assume?

Why does that matter?

KT

 

[vi edit]

One thing I found odd (yet relieving) was when I signed up for one of those black box things from Allstate that tracks your driving behaviors.

It tracks speed, but only flags you at speeds above 80. Doesn't matter if you are doing 75 in a 30. But go over 80 and you get dinged.

The other odd thing? Of people that have installed these things, almost 45% of them have gone over 80MPH. Over 25% have gone over 80MPH *a lot*.

I found that interesting that someone would willingly sign up for the device and then willingly speed. Frequently. I doubt that many people are on that 85MPH tollway between Austin & SA Texas.

 

[homercles337]

Perhaps. But that's the fault of the drivers who got into the accidents.

BTW, I've seen an incident of this with my own eyes.

Because the plural of anecdote is data?

 

[Midwayman]

I suspect it's probably your own bias, since statistics show that males generally are worse than females. Maybe it's the clueless and aggressive males too, but bias can make the clueless females stand out.

FWIW, that is accidents reported to insurance companies. Cars with beat up bumpers, scrapes down the side, etc, etc seem to be driven by women 9 times out of 10. I feel like they have a ton more 'opps' moments that don't show up in insurance statistics. Plus of course there is no way to really calculate how many accidents are caused by erratic, over-cautious driving.

 

[BurnItDwn]

One thing I found odd (yet relieving) was when I signed up for one of those black box things from Allstate that tracks your driving behaviors.

It tracks speed, but only flags you at speeds above 80. Doesn't matter if you are doing 75 in a 30. But go over 80 and you get dinged.

The other odd thing? Of people that have installed these things, almost 45% of them have gone over 80MPH. Over 25% have gone over 80MPH *a lot*.

I found that interesting that someone would willingly sign up for the device and then willingly speed. Frequently. I doubt that many people are on that 85MPH tollway between Austin & SA Texas.

Didn't know that ... I very certainly would not sign up for one of those then. 98% of the time, I'm going within 9mph of the speed limit on arterial or surface roads. However, when I'm on the freeway, and the speed of traffic is moving, I usually don't worry much about my speed until I'm beyond 90mph. Going 90mph on the highway when the median speed of traffic is around 90mph, is pretty much generally safe.

going 40 in a 25 zone is MUCH more dangerous IMO, since 25mph zone usually indicates residential neighborhood.

 

[Eug]

FWIW, that is accidents reported to insurance companies. Cars with beat up bumpers, scrapes down the side, etc, etc seem to be driven by women 9 times out of 10. I feel like they have a ton more 'opps' moments that don't show up in insurance statistics. Plus of course there is no way to really calculate how many accidents are caused by erratic, over-cautious driving.

That reads like a lot of internet hand waving.

 

[Midwayman]

That reads like a lot of internet hand waving.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index....ivers_more_crashes_than_men_less_driving.html

 

[Eug]

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index....ivers_more_crashes_than_men_less_driving.html

Interestingly the same article lists another article which states the opposite, and most studies I've come across support the latter, at least for serious accidents. ie. The accident rate for women isn't necessarily lower, but the rate of serious accidents is lower.

However, for the sake of this thread, the one point that stands out is:

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2004/may/13/thisweekssciencequestions1

In a recent study for the Scottish executive, Stradling found that those flashed by a speed camera in a three-year period were more than twice as likely to have an accident as those that didn't get flashed. In other words, speeding drivers have more accidents.

This answers (again) the question posed by some others in this thread.

 

[vi edit]

That reads like a lot of internet hand waving.

And it takes an aweful lot of dented fenders and scraped up doors to make up the cost of a totaled car that wrapped itself around a telephone pole, a lifeflight to a trauma center, multiple surgeries, a several week stay in a intensive care unit and the months and months of rehab required when a teenage male is driving too fast at night and misjudges a curve.

 

[Red Storm]

I thought I remember reading that most accidents occur below the speed limit?

 

[vi edit]

I thought I remember reading that most accidents occur below the speed limit?

There's piles of parking lot fender benders. But 100 of them still won't cost as much as the medical costs of a high speed collision.

 

[Eug]

I thought I remember reading that most accidents occur below the speed limit?

IIRC, more people die in lower speed accidents too than super high speed ones, because there are more lower speed accidents. However, if you're in an accident, your chance of dying in a low speed one is lower than a high speed one.

It's sort of like the controversial pitbull muzzling issue.

More humans are bitten by golden retrievers than they are by pitbulls. However, at least according to some claims, a higher rate of serious bites per dog occur in the pitbull population than with golden retrievers.

 

[Red Storm]

According to this info from the Census, there is no indication that drivers 19 and under experience more accidents than those older. Unless I'm reading it wrong.

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s1114.pdf

 

[nageov3t]

it's probably a more practical solution than insurance companies having to go case by case with every single speeding violation for every single one of their clients every time to investigate why they were speeding and why they were issued a ticket.

 

[yottabit]

I think the bigger issue is why the speed limits aren't higher in the first place

At least in New England there are plenty of ~4 lane highways with 50-55 MPH speed limits which is absolutely ridiculous. I'm almost positive the reason they keep the speed limits so low is for ticket revenue.

Driving through places like the midwest that have ~70+ MPH speed limits, I see a lot less people dramatically speeding (although there's a lot less people in general, too)

I don't see why they can't have something like the HOV lane that's a 75 MPH min/ 85 MPH limit lane or something (or even 80/90)

I was also thinking if you established such a high-speed lane, it could open up a lot of new possibilities. Think high-speed small Sprinter-style buses/vans as public transportation

 

[Eug]

According to this info from the Census, there is no indication that drivers 19 and under experience more accidents than those older. Unless I'm reading it wrong.

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s1114.pdf

Well, that one states that fatal accident rates in both the 19 and under group and the 20-25 group about the same, but both are much higher than with older drivers. The rates decline significantly over age 25, and are lowest in the 55-74 age group. It goes back up at age 75, but it's still lower than 20 year olds.

However, for all accident statistics as listed, the rate is higher in the 19 and under group than it is in the 20-25 group, and drops as you get older, with seniors having lower accident rates than 30 year olds. (Interestingly, it remains low at age 75.)

Presumably that's why rental companies often won't rent to anyone under age 25.

it's probably a more practical solution than insurance companies having to go case by case with every single speeding violation for every single one of their clients every time to investigate why they were speeding and why they were issued a ticket.

Of course, it's far too complicated to base insurance rates on every little nuance. They base their rates on population averages, and easy to measure stuff like number of moving violations and number of accidents.

 

[Midwayman]

Interestingly the same article lists another article which states the opposite, and most studies I've come across support the latter, at least for serious accidents. ie. The accident rate for women isn't necessarily lower, but the rate of serious accidents is lower.

That was my original point. Serious accidents lower. Insurance claims lower. Overall accidents..... not so much.

 

[Midwayman]

I think the bigger issue is why the speed limits aren't higher in the first place

At least in New England there are plenty of ~4 lane highways with 50-55 MPH speed limits which is absolutely ridiculous. I'm almost positive the reason they keep the speed limits so low is for ticket revenue

I think there is a big point to this. I wonder if autonomous cars will end up raising speed limit just since there is no point in keeping them artificially low when they won't speed. In the Chicago area speed limits are 55mph as well, but its tough to get pulled over for anything under 75mph. Its almost a lottery as to who gets a speeding ticket.