Should Israel pull the trigger?

[MrPALCO]

<< inhumanity toward others >>



Tell that to Arafat.

 

[Harvey]

PALtroll -- << Tell that to Arafat. >>

So, you think one evil justifies another? Regardless of what others have done, Sharon is at least as bad as the worst of them. :|

No wonder I have no respect for your opinion. Go read your damned book. You must have at least three more cheeks to turn. :disgust:

 

[MrPALCO]

A Man said, &quot;look I can see the future, Israel and her King, as the Sovereign of the Earth&quot;.

The Man is correct, Israel has been made the seat of Power on the Earth.

Every day brings us closer as the teeth gnash, other mouths give thanks.

As it is Written, so let it be.

 

[syzygy]

mrpalco, its not how it is written, but how it is read. and if
your reading skills were not skewed by your fanaticism then
possibly you would not lose yourself in the simple-minded details.

i suggest you move the good book off the end of your nose and
try reading it with some perspective. you might just discover
how insecure, arrogant, and misplaced you really are, which
would be for your ultimate good. and yes, i'm preaching -
do you enjoy ?

 

[MrPALCO]

<< simple-minded details >>



You are correct, it is simple and easy to understand.

 

[spanner]

I just took a class on this topic. Both sides have pretty valid reasons to fight which is why this is such a difficult war. What really bothers me is that all those weapons they are fighting with were provided by the U.S and the Soviet Union. That damn Cold war made war Break out everywhere except the U.S and The Soviet union, How screwed up is that? Ohya and I think Ariel Sharon is a POS, they where so close to a resolution and guess who screwed it all up. My opinion is that its not gonna end till one side loses or they find a common goal, Anyone want to guess which comes first??

 

[MrPALCO]

<< My opinion is that its not gonna end till one side loses or they find a common goal, >>



It will end only when every Word is carried out, and Israel installs her King, as ruler of all the Earth.



ed...sp

 

[guitronics]

<< Millions of Americans originated from England. I guess we should take it over because it is their ancestral land. >>



Wow, your comments reflect your forum name.The English colonists went to America to get away from England's government.Even the loyalists turned against England during the harsh treatment the colonists were recieving at the hands of the puppet English government.

Rather that going back to England, and reclaiming their 'Ancestral lands',the English colonists chose to fight ,twice; the English government.The colonists wanted to start their own country.Very few (Benedict Arnold was one)returned to live in England after the USA became a nation.

Of course, there were other groups colonizing here...Spaniards,French,African slaves,etc.The people who really got screwed over were the &quot;Native Americans&quot;.

What I was referring to in my previous post was the U.N.'s agreement to allow the Jews to occupy the formerly called &quot;Palestine&quot;.These people had been spread to the four corners of the earth, and were the objects of genocide from Hitler's 3rd. reich,no matter what country they were located in.

They were massacred and de-humanized in Germany,Poland,France,Italy,and any other countries that the German war machine captured.

So the U.N. gave them back their homeland,since they were unexplicably gathering in that spot once known as &quot;Palestine&quot;.

 

[syzygy]

<< So the U.N. gave them back their homeland,since they were unexplicably gathering in that spot once known as &quot;Palestine&quot;. >>



the u.n. didn't give them back their homeland. the british mandate expired and the establishment of the isreali state was proclaimed on may 14, 1948. the u.n. partition plan drafted in november 1947 was never enacted. on may 15, the combined armies of egypt, iraq, jordan, syria and lebanon invaded.

 

[CrazeeDonkee]

Guitronics, it looks like you reflect your avatar.. You're stoned!

What about the people that were living in Palestine? It is their homeland, too.

I was born in Orange, CA but only lived there for 3 months. Since it is my &quot;birthland&quot; or birth city, am I entitled to keep the entire city?

 

[Carbo]

This issue will NEVER be resolved, as history has shown us. Unless Israel is willing to relent on its many indefensible positions, this goes on for many future generations.

 

[Doboji]

Sharon is often accused of being a war criminal... and people scream that he should be taken to trial.... read up on the incidents he's being accused of... first off t he offense is not even close to what the hype professes... secondly he already has been taken to trial... and was found &quot;indirectly responsible&quot; and thus resigned.

Lets stop exaggerating the deeds of Ariel Sharon... his crime was failing to stop the massacres perpetrated by the Phalange from Lebanon not massacreing women and children. And the events surrounding this failure are very questionable, and it is immpossible to declare clearly whether Sharon indeed bears the responsibility.

As for Mr. Palco.... you are a lunatic.. nuff said.


-Max

 

[guitronics]

I will attempt to further explain my position.For thousands of years, the Jews,(who were made slaves of the Egyptions)wandered the earth,and had settelments in most of europe,as well as the U.S.

For some unexplicable reason,(I wasn't born then)the Jews started to assemble in what was then called Palestine.This was sometime during, or directly after World War Two.

The United Nations were made aware of the homelessness of the Jews,the anti-semitic de-humanization of their race,their fate under Hitler;and decided to give them their own country. The Jews promptly named this country ISRAEL,after one of their prophets.(Yeah, I know...religion).

It is my understanding that this occurred in 1948.The arabic peoples screamed outrage, but the measure passed, anyway.

It is also my understanding that the Arabic peoples were to move to Jordan.I'm sure they could have moved to just about any country that surrounds israel, as they are ALL arabic countries.

I am not sure why the Arabic peoples did not, in the most part, move away.The U.N. made provisions to do so, but the arabs wanted to stay...and fight.

This is why they're in the mess today.Israel IS the ancestral home of the Jews.The Arabs moved in to the region after the Jews were put into slavery, and taken away to Egypt.

The third holiest religious site for the Arabs is in Jerusalem.I believe their #1 Holiest site to be mecca,in Egypt.I don't know what their 2nd most holy site is.

The Jews, and the Christians' #1 most holy site is Jerusalem.Why don't the Arabic peoples go live by their #1 holiest site,#3 isn't all that important, the way I see it.

My proposal is that the U.N.,World Bank, etc.,create a fund to pay fair market value to the Arabic peoples' for their homes.Send 'em U.N.Military convoys to pick up their families, and their belongings.

They can go to any country they want...all roads out of Israel lead to arabic nations.Sure, the U.N. would have to plead with the Arabic nations to accept the expatriates.

1000 families a month could be moved.The Jews are not gonna give back the Golan Heights, nor the Gaza strip,since these areas were used to shoot rockets, missles, guns, artillery, and other military weapons at the Israeli's.

BTW,Every conflict that I'm aware of, the Arabs started,not the Jews.The wars in 1967 and 1973 were started by the Arabs.One of the wars was even started on a Jewish holiday, a 'sneak attack'.

However,in every instance(except possibly the debacle in Lebanon)the Jews chased the arabs back, and took over these strategic, military launch zones.They would be very foolish to give the arabs another chance to make war on them.

So you see, &quot;The Palestinians&quot; is a bit of a misnomer...as the Jews are also &quot;Palestinians&quot;....although, it would be an insult to call them that.They are Citizens of a country which was provided to them by the United Nations.The country's name is now ISRAEL.Palestine is but a faded memory, a dream, an exercise in futility.

 

[guitronics]

Who proclaimed the Jewish state?Apparently, the Jews were well armed, as they DID become a nation...which tells me that they kicked all of those other nation's armies butts.

 

[Merkat]

<< Actually, the Koran sites that that Judaism and Islam have a &quot;special&quot;, as in close, relationship.

According to the Koran, Muslims should make great efforts to live with Jews.

Too bad reality isn't that way. >>



Eh??
Al Maidah (The Table): &quot;Believers (Muslims), take neither Jews nor Christians to be your friends: they are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship Shall become one of their number, and God does not guide (those Jewish and Christian (called &quot;wrong-doers,&quot; 5:51-5:74).

&quot;Say, 'People of the Book (Jews), is it not that you hate us (Ishmaelite Muslims), only because we believe in God, and in what has been revealed to others, and because most of you (Jews) are evil-doers?&quot; 5:57

 

[Harvey]

Doboji -- << Should Israel pull the trigger? >>

I think the U.S. should pull the plug on giving any funds to either side until they settle their ridiculous, childish sandbox squabbling.

There is exactly one peace that will ever last. Isrealis and Palestinians must share the region -- ALL of the region. The predecessors of the present Palestinian people have a history as ancient as the Jews on that particular piece of realestate. The Jewish bible and its promise to Moses is no more significant in the real world of today than anything in the history of the Palestinians.

Among the most logical things to do would be to declare Jerusalem an international city or peace and understanding, devoted to the shared histories of Judaism, Islam, Christianity and any other religion that claims a history, there.

If Isrealis don't stop siezing lands held by Palestinians for generations, and does not allow the return if those Palestinians who were exiled when Isreal was formed, Isreal is, in fact, the aggressor and the evil the Jews fled in Germany. They are not the same political party, but they are the same selfish takers who are stealing the property, the dignity, and the very culture of another people. That is what the nazis did in Germany. That is what the government of Isreal is doing to the Palestinians, now.

I do not lay all blame on Isreal. It will take a long time to heal the spiritual wounds between them and the Palestinians, but until there is mutual respect for the basic humanity of all of those in the region, there will be no lasting peace.

<< Lets stop exaggerating the deeds of Ariel Sharon... >>

OK. Let's just call him what he is -- a MURDERING TERRORIST WAR CRIMINAL!!!! :|

He was a member of the Haganah, the underground military organization of Israel in its pre-state days. In 1953 he was given command of Unit 101, whose mission is often described as that of retaliation against Arab attacks on Jewish villages. Unit 101's purpose was that of instilling terror by the infliction of discriminate, murderous violence not only on able bodied fighters but on the young, the old, the helpless. Their idea of a good time was to roll into a village, torch the homes, and shoot the fleeing women, children and old men, or to keep the houses under fire so the occupants could not escape while the Unit 101 blew them up. Here's more info

Here's a brief bio on Sharon. It's a little tamer, but it still confirms that he is a murdering prick.

There is plenty of info available about Sharon. Just go to any good search engine, like google.com, and enter &quot;Ariel Sharon&quot; (in quotes) and words like genocide, &quot;war crime&quot; or massacre. You'll find plenty of links. The guy is a murdering PUTZ!!. If he truly represents the Isreali people, we should cut off all relations with them, until they get their collective kepi[/b] out of their tuchas.

 

[Doboji]

<< I think the U.S. should pull the plug on giving any funds to either side until they settle their ridiculous, childish sandbox squabbling. >>



This statement shows utter lack of understanding on this issue. This is hardly &quot;sandbox squabbling&quot;... people are dying every day.... and they are dying because of a plethora of convictions... it is hardly sandbox squabbling. Try having your mother or your brothers head blown off, and not get angry.... try having your home bulldozed and not get upset... this conflict has gone beyond &quot;sandbox squabbling&quot; since it's founding.



<< If Isrealis don't stop siezing lands held by Palestinians for generations, and does not allow the return if those Palestinians who were exiled when Isreal was formed, Isreal is, in fact, the aggressor and the evil the Jews fled in Germany. They are not the same political party, but they are the same selfish takers who are stealing the property, the dignity, and the very culture of another people. That is what the nazis did in Germany. That is what the government of Isreal is doing to the Palestinians, now. >>



You act as if this is an open and shut case of Israelis simply rolling in and brutaly stealing land... the truth is far more complicated than that... there are issues ranging from Security/Military to Religious to Demographic behind every action happening. There are indeed issues of wrong doing needing to be addressed but this is hardly compareable to Nazi Germany. Stealing the property?... what of the 650,000 jews who were expelled from Arab lands during the war of independence (or AL Nakba whichever you want to call it). What of the neighboring Arab nations who refuse to accept Palestinians as citzens...

Lets look at the reality of this situation... NOONE in the middle east wants Israel to be there... and it's not a religious issue... it's a solidarity issue. Israel stands in the way of a unified Arab middle east. The Palestinians are not accepted by Arab nations because they are a political tool for harassing the Israelis...

Forgive me I'll try to add the name and exact date here later... a certain ruler of Syria offered to repatriate 600,000 palestinians into Syria... but before his offer was accepted he was assasinated by agents of the Arab world...

And to further the inability to compare Nazi Germany to the Israel-Palestinian conflict is the very fact that there is a war taking place... Palestinians are not women and children being led into gas chambers, they are Men with Ak47s... kids with dynamite strapped to their chests... and snipers with their crosshairs on babies... there are no innocents in this war... everyone lost their innocence long ago...

To sit upon your throne and cast judgement down upon everyone involved is both foolish and stupid... I know that I cannot sit in judgement... I've studied the subject in depth... and I still cannot know which side is right and which is wrong... I side with Israel because I am a Jew, and because without Israel my people are dying...

Now this brings up a whole 'nother moral issue... that of so what if Jews no longer exist... maybe it doesnt matter.. maybe we should do away with all cultural differences... and maybe to maintain that culture is stupid... but it is who I am... and I am willing to die or kill to preserve who I am.

Oh and by the way I am SOOOO insulted that you dare to compare the current situation to Nazi Germany... It's so different!

-Max

 

[DeathlyCurse]

<sarcasm>The areas in question should be evacuated of all people. Then someone should raze the area, blast huge holes in the ground, and fill them with water. </sarcasm>

I have no respect for the Israelis, who use helicopter gunships on civilians and Palestinian officials. I have just as little respect for the Palestianians who can't control their own people. What a bunch of thick headed zealots.

 

[przero]

Use the &quot;nukes&quot;, why let'em waste away!

 

[syzygy]

it has been duly reported that many of the palestinians who fled following the end of the
british mandate did so on the orders and threats made by the existing arab governing council
who did not want any of their people to be part of the new jewish state. almost the entire
arab population of haifa was sent into forced 'self-exile' by their own leaders.

ben gurion and even the leaders of the haganah loudly proclaimed for the public record that
they welcomed the arab people into their new state and were implored not to leave. in fact, the
newly minted constitution guaranteed the rights of all citizens irregardless of their ethnic or religious background.

the local arab military leaders, the arab intelligentsia, nearly the whole arab middle class,
and most of the sitting members on the arab council fled, leaving a huge vacuum of leadership
that british and later invading arab forces ruefuly remarked upon.

if they wanted to retain their land, they should have stayed. even better, when resolution 181
was offered, they should have accepted. the u.n. partition plan in november 1947 would have granted the arabs (palestinians) more land than they are now seeking through their terrorist-cum-negotiation tactics.




<< I do not lay all blame on Isreal. >>



such nobility.

 

[guitronics]

syzygy:I still do not understand who granted the Jews the country that they named Israel.From what you have said,the UK had control of the region,and was either granted a mandate by the UN,or just made one up.

In any case, thank you for your insightful remarks, unlike others' on this thread, I'm willing to consider and learn from others.

Does anybody remember the massacre of the Israeli athletes during the olympics of 1972? &quot;A band of &quot;Black September&quot;Arab guerillas scaled a fence and broke into the olympic villiage just outside of Munich,Germany.

Over 250 Plain-Clothed police had been tipped off to the raid,but>>>None of them saw the arabs scale the fence<<<.

The arabs burst into the Israeli building with sub-machine guns blazing at 5:10 AM. 2 Israeli Athletes were killed,while 15 escaped through windows.

The olympic Games were suspended.The guerillas demanded thbe release of 200 'palestinians' held in Israeli jails, and safe passage out of Germany.

Nine hostages, and 8 arabs were flown by helicopter to an airport (Furstenfeld military)25 miles from Munich.

Just before midnight the guerillas and hostages began to walk across the tarmac to a waiting Boeing 727.Suddenly, all airport lights were turned off,and German sharpshooters opened fire.

The rescue attempt failed miserably.All nine hostages were killed,as well as four guerillas and a policeman.Three Arabs were captured and one escaped into the nearby woods.

The guerillas' name recalls September 1970 when Palestinian organizations were expelled from Jordan by King Hussein.They were responsible for the assasination of Jordans' premier,Wasfi Tell,in Cairo last November,and for the hijack of a Belgian jet in the spring of 1971.&quot;

The preceding in quotation marks was used without permission from the book &quot;Chronicle of the 20th Century&quot;, by Longman Chronicle Communications,LTD.First published,1988.Reprinted:1988,1989(twice),1990.

Article was slightly condensed to save space,and is almost 100%Verbatim.