Should Obama be bowing to a Saudi King?

[Budmantom]

Who are you going to believe your lying eyes or the honest Obama administration?

 

[spacejamz]

Did any of the other leaders at the G20 summit bow to the Saudi King? From what I have read, no one else did...

A handshake is still the traditional and acceptable form of respect...not sure why anything other than that was needed...

 

[cwjerome]

Not a huge deal, but still a little pathetic. I chalk it up to inexperience and lack of common sense. I don't think he was bowing in the Islamic context that the King was possessor of Mecca. Obama probably thought he was just being humble for sake of "repairing" relations with the Islamic world. Fail.

The president of the US should not bow to other world leaders. There are other ways to communicate respect and friendship -as equals- like the cheek kissing or even holding hands. Those things do not convey the western sense of submission like bowing.

People who think he was just being polite need to realize you can be polite without violating our own cultural norms. This is was a minor mistake and from the response from the White House I think they recognize that.

 

[BMW540I6speed]

Former Presidents have bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia, but for some reason it is a "gaffe" when Barack Obama does it. Typical reactionary double-standard from "the base". After all the only appropriate form of bowing for "the base" is a bow to God.

Also, where did we get this idea that it is somehow shameful to bow to another person, let alone a foreign leader? American businessmen & politicians dealing with Japanese executives & ploiticians bow in greeting as a matter of routine. It is a gesture of fellowship and respect. President Obama offered no more than this to a colleague on the world stage.

Bowing, from the waist, while maintaining EYE CONTACT does not make the bower subservient. It shows respect while acknowledging the bowee's rank. If, however, Obama, got on his knees and prostrated himself at the feet of the King (which would most likely be the reaction of a Saudi subject upon meeting his king) then yes, that screams subservience. But cultures all over this planet bow rather than shake hands.

And I'm sorry, but I find a picture of Bush intimately holding hands with a Saudi Arabian Prince, (ugh) much more disturbing than Obama bowing to the King. Which is impersonal as you can get. What I find hilarious is that Obama is in hot water for bowing and not, I presume, shaking hands with a King while Michelle O is in hot water for touching a Queen.

Reactinary drama queen antics from the usual blowhards in the media...

 

[IronWing]

I'm going to have to agree with the Obama bashers on this one. Obama did make a diplomatic mistake in bowing to the Saudi king. Nothing compared to Bush's damn near treasonous defense of the Saudis in the wake of the 911 attacks but a mistake none-the-less and one I hope he doesn't repeat. The House of Saud are scum and no American citizen should bend to any royalty. Oh wait, that gets Obama off the hook.

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: newnameman

Originally posted by: UberNeuman
so, PJ - you do find Bush holding hands with the Saudi King to be a screw up as well?


and this goes to the rest of the peanut gallery as well.

Was it a mistake that the previous President walked around holding hands with the Saudi King?

100+ posts into this thread and you still haven't come up with anything better than "bu bu bbu but Bush!!1!"?

Considering the idiocy of this issue in the first place, why does that surprise you. Anyone that thinks Obama was being submissive needs their head examined. You all are at a point bnow where you are outraged when he is being polite. What else can you posibly complain about.

There's only 2 possibilities. Either Obama was being submissive with his bow or he's just a friggin idiot. I want to believe the latter because the former would be a disaster for the USA. Leaders of nations do not bow to other leaders of nations. It just doesn't happen, yet OBama chose to do so. It's wrong on so many levels. All Obama has done lately for the USA is bash the USA on the world stage and show he has no teeth. Then he bows to a foreign "king" and sends someone out to lie about it. For you Bush counters, holding hands is at most a gesture of mutual respect, not someone prostrating themselves in front of another leader.

It's just another peg in Obama's board of naive behavior that will get filed under the "weird" file because of how naive and foolish it was to bow to another world leader.

Look, another thing you have no clue about. It must be hard being so ignorant about so many subjects at the same time.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: newnameman

Originally posted by: UberNeuman
so, PJ - you do find Bush holding hands with the Saudi King to be a screw up as well?


and this goes to the rest of the peanut gallery as well.

Was it a mistake that the previous President walked around holding hands with the Saudi King?

100+ posts into this thread and you still haven't come up with anything better than "bu bu bbu but Bush!!1!"?

Considering the idiocy of this issue in the first place, why does that surprise you. Anyone that thinks Obama was being submissive needs their head examined. You all are at a point bnow where you are outraged when he is being polite. What else can you posibly complain about.

There's only 2 possibilities. Either Obama was being submissive with his bow or he's just a friggin idiot. I want to believe the latter because the former would be a disaster for the USA. Leaders of nations do not bow to other leaders of nations. It just doesn't happen, yet OBama chose to do so. It's wrong on so many levels. All Obama has done lately for the USA is bash the USA on the world stage and show he has no teeth. Then he bows to a foreign "king" and sends someone out to lie about it. For you Bush counters, holding hands is at most a gesture of mutual respect, not someone prostrating themselves in front of another leader.

It's just another peg in Obama's board of naive behavior that will get filed under the "weird" file because of how naive and foolish it was to bow to another world leader.

Look, another thing you have no clue about. It must be hard being so ignorant about so many subjects at the same time.

LOL - but he does it so well. =)

 

[microbial]

Originally posted by: UberNeuman

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
lol. how the fuck did this get to be 6 pages.

Lots of idiots looking to be upset. Too many intelligent folks answering them.

Just more Baracknophobia.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...nnity-ba_n_184568.html

And for anyone looking for a signature, Jon Stewart has a suggestion: "It's supposed to taste like a shit taco"

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: microbial

Originally posted by: UberNeuman

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
lol. how the fuck did this get to be 6 pages.

Lots of idiots looking to be upset. Too many intelligent folks answering them.

Just more Baracknophobia.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...nnity-ba_n_184568.html

And for anyone looking for a signature, Jon Stewart has a suggestion: "It's supposed to taste like a shit taco"

LOL - classic...

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: ironwing
I'm going to have to agree with the Obama bashers on this one. Obama did make a diplomatic mistake in bowing to the Saudi king. Nothing compared to Bush's damn near treasonous defense of the Saudis in the wake of the 911 attacks but a mistake none-the-less and one I hope he doesn't repeat. The House of Saud are scum and no American citizen should bend to any royalty. Oh wait, that gets Obama off the hook.

Don't believe your lying eyes the White House said he didn't bow, in related news the Obama administration maintains they are not socialist but said they had no time to comment because they had other businesses to take over.

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: ironwing
I'm going to have to agree with the Obama bashers on this one. Obama did make a diplomatic mistake in bowing to the Saudi king. Nothing compared to Bush's damn near treasonous defense of the Saudis in the wake of the 911 attacks but a mistake none-the-less and one I hope he doesn't repeat. The House of Saud are scum and no American citizen should bend to any royalty. Oh wait, that gets Obama off the hook.

Don't believe your lying eyes the White House said he didn't bow, in related news the Obama administration maintains they are not socialist but said they had no time to comment because they had other businesses to take over.

What, did Don Henley serve you fruit loops in bed this morning?

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: newnameman
The White House spin is out - it wasn't a bow, apparently Obama is just so tall that he had to bend over in order to shake hands. :laugh:

"It wasn't a bow. He grasped his hand with two hands, and he's taller than King Abdullah," said an Obama aide, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/...e_No_bow_to_Saudi.html

That the WH tries to come out say that wasn't a bow is blatant BS.

From every indication, his bow was exceptional and not ordinary in any way. We don't even curtsey to the queen.

IMO, what people here in the USA or Western Europe think about it is relatively unimportant. Obama did this exceptionally (deep) bow and not just a 'head nod' type thing for a reason, what is the message he wants to send?

Symbolism seems very important is that part of the world. There are people living in these Middle Eastern kingdoms who want democracy, I don't think that was welcomed or helpful to their cause. I wonder how women fighting for more freedoms feels about our President bowing like that? Does this image cheer the Islamofacists who already believe non-Muslims of the West are inferior scum?

Strikes me as a highly unusual move, and a very questionable one too.

Fern

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: newnameman

Originally posted by: UberNeuman
so, PJ - you do find Bush holding hands with the Saudi King to be a screw up as well?


and this goes to the rest of the peanut gallery as well.

Was it a mistake that the previous President walked around holding hands with the Saudi King?

100+ posts into this thread and you still haven't come up with anything better than "bu bu bbu but Bush!!1!"?

Considering the idiocy of this issue in the first place, why does that surprise you. Anyone that thinks Obama was being submissive needs their head examined. You all are at a point bnow where you are outraged when he is being polite. What else can you posibly complain about.

There's only 2 possibilities. Either Obama was being submissive with his bow or he's just a friggin idiot. I want to believe the latter because the former would be a disaster for the USA. Leaders of nations do not bow to other leaders of nations. It just doesn't happen, yet OBama chose to do so. It's wrong on so many levels. All Obama has done lately for the USA is bash the USA on the world stage and show he has no teeth. Then he bows to a foreign "king" and sends someone out to lie about it. For you Bush counters, holding hands is at most a gesture of mutual respect, not someone prostrating themselves in front of another leader.

It's just another peg in Obama's board of naive behavior that will get filed under the "weird" file because of how naive and foolish it was to bow to another world leader.

Look, another thing you have no clue about. It must be hard being so ignorant about so many subjects at the same time.

You are presented by the truth and what do you choose to do? Use your high intelligence and reason that you liberals claim to have? Not only do you brush off arguments that make Obama look anything less that saviorlike, but you want others to follow in your own stupidity and marginalize those who think for themselves. You're both a traitor and a disgrace to whatever country you're from.

 

[Brainonska511]

THIS IS MADNESS! MAKE IT STOP!!!!

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: newnameman
The White House spin is out - it wasn't a bow, apparently Obama is just so tall that he had to bend over in order to shake hands. :laugh:

"It wasn't a bow. He grasped his hand with two hands, and he's taller than King Abdullah," said an Obama aide, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/...e_No_bow_to_Saudi.html

That the WH tries to come out say that wasn't a bow is blatant BS.

From every indication, his bow was exceptional and not ordinary in any way. We don't even curtsey to the queen.

IMO, what people here in the USA or Western Europe think about it is relatively unimportant. Obama did this exceptionally (deep) bow and not just a 'head nod' type thing for a reason, what is the message he wants to send?

Symbolism seems very important is that part of the world. There are people living in these Middle Eastern kingdoms who want democracy, I don't think that was welcomed or helpful to their cause. I wonder how women fighting for more freedoms feels about our President bowing like that? Does this image cheer the Islamofacists who already believe non-Muslims of the West are inferior scum?

Strikes me as a highly unusual move, and a very questionable one too.

Fern

Couldn't have said it better myself. Apparently for some posters on this forum, who aim at nothing more than partisan hackery, you can't even point out the obvious if it's against their leadership figure's image.

See CitizenKain's response, a typical liberal who when confronted into a corner by the truth, ascribes ignorance on others and pretends they're safely at home and nothing is wrong with their wonderchild, Obama.

 

[OCGuy]

Wow. One of the more blatant out-right lies by the Obama WH so far.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: Brainonska511
THIS IS MADNESS! MAKE IT STOP!!!!

Conservatives put up with stupid ass attacks on Bush on a daily basis, if you can't stand it when your guy is in power and making real stupid decisions such as acting like a foreign King's subordinate (and then LYING he did it), maybe you should go frequent Hot Deals instead.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: OCguy
Wow. One of the more blatant out-right lies by the Obama WH so far.

Indeed. The leftists on here and at large said it was no big deal when Obama made himself a liar by not honoring his campaign contribution pledge. However, that flat out lie was only the beginning as he's proven himself a flat out liar about many of his campaign promises. He's a typical politician with the exception that he's extremely naive and filled to the brim with liberal ideology that has no root in history or reality.

 

[Jack Flash]

US isn't doing so hot.

Firs Reagan trying to hand out hugs

http://pro.corbis.com/images/U...8-BEBA-4004C6D79AF5%7D

Bill Clinton following the trend

http://z.about.com/d/middleeas...219-bandar-clinton.jpg

Bush holding hands

http://www.peteykins.com/sparklepony/BushAbdullah2.jpg

And now Obama PRACTICALLY SPREADING HIS BUTT CHEEKS

http://images.smh.com.au/2009/.../obamabow420-420x0.jpg

WHERE WILL IT STOP AMERICA!?!?! ARE WE TEH SUBMISSIVE GHEYS??!?!

 

[Ackmed]

Its absolutely pathetic for him to be bowing to anyone.

 

[trenchfoot]

I really don't think he should have done it. Why'd he do it? We'll never really know. Most of the posts I've read up to this point is clearly agenda driven, so I can understand how the righties are jumping all over this like a pack of teased and starved pitbulls being thrown a bone. Fine. Just as expected.

Though, to me, I'm not so much disturbed that Pres. Obama actually did it inasmuch as it puts him in the same league as Bush, which bothers me a lot because it somewhat remotely alludes to an unknown entity that both Bush and Obama have to answer to, which while probably not being the case, did force me to connect some imaginary dots in this particular direction.

 

[Jack Flash]

Originally posted by: tweaker2
I really don't think he should have done it. Why'd he do it? We'll never really know. Most of the posts I've read up to this point is clearly agenda driven, so I can understand how the righties are jumping all over this like a pack of teased and starved pitbulls being thrown a bone. Fine. Just as expected.

Though, to me, I'm not so much disturbed that Pres. Obama actually did it inasmuch as it puts him in the same league as Bush, which bothers me a lot because it somewhat remotely alludes to an unknown entity that both Bush and Obama have to answer to, which while probably not being the case, did force me to connect some imaginary dots in this particular direction.

I think an over-enthusiastic handshake turned into a small bow. No intended symbolism apart from general good will and respect. It's a gaffe but such a non-issue.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Vic
-snip-
This is a non-issue. Under US law, the President is not sovereign. So unlike if, say, the British queen were to bow to the Saudi king, this did NOT symbolize the people or the govt of the US paying homage, and was simply the act of an individual.
Don't beg for your own e-whipping by arguing otherwise.

Curiously, this 'non-soverign' argument did not come up during Bush's administartion. I suppose nothing he did vis-a-vis foreig affairs should really concern us as he was not soverign either.

Soverign or no, the President represents our country to other countries, thus his actions abroad to foreign countries is of rightful concern to us.

And 'no' this bowing is not the biggest of deals, but he's new and his actions will be watched closely (as is entirley normal).

(I wanna see the Saudi king deal with Hillary, she ain't gonna bow to anybody )

Fern

 

[trenchfoot]

Originally posted by: Jack Flash

Originally posted by: tweaker2
I really don't think he should have done it. Why'd he do it? We'll never really know. Most of the posts I've read up to this point is clearly agenda driven, so I can understand how the righties are jumping all over this like a pack of teased and starved pitbulls being thrown a bone. Fine. Just as expected.

Though, to me, I'm not so much disturbed that Pres. Obama actually did it inasmuch as it puts him in the same league as Bush, which bothers me a lot because it somewhat remotely alludes to an unknown entity that both Bush and Obama have to answer to, which while probably not being the case, did force me to connect some imaginary dots in this particular direction.

I think an over-enthusiastic handshake turned into a small bow. No intended symbolism apart from general good will and respect. It's a gaffe but such a non-issue.

That very well may be, and for the sake of Pres. Obama's duty as the titular symbol of all Americans I hope it is. :thumbsup:

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Jack Flash

Originally posted by: tweaker2
I really don't think he should have done it. Why'd he do it? We'll never really know. Most of the posts I've read up to this point is clearly agenda driven, so I can understand how the righties are jumping all over this like a pack of teased and starved pitbulls being thrown a bone. Fine. Just as expected.

Though, to me, I'm not so much disturbed that Pres. Obama actually did it inasmuch as it puts him in the same league as Bush, which bothers me a lot because it somewhat remotely alludes to an unknown entity that both Bush and Obama have to answer to, which while probably not being the case, did force me to connect some imaginary dots in this particular direction.

I think an over-enthusiastic handshake turned into a small bow. No intended symbolism apart from general good will and respect. It's a gaffe but such a non-issue.

So then why the lies?