Should people be allowed to own big, dangerous dogs?

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: JonnyStarks
In Ontario pit bulls were recently banned. I think that even if a good person owns it then it can still have a mean streak in it and snap...

The single friendliest dog I've ever met was an American Staffordshire Terrier (aka, pit bull). Dog didn't have any kind of mean streak at all. It's a bad precident to set once we start banning things just because it could potentially be harmful. Besides, dangerous dogs are just like airline crashes, over-reported to the extent that a very tiny percentage of actual incidents are rammed into the public's conscious so hard that people severely over-estimate the danger.

ZV

 

[tami]

i'd say that we need to recategorize pitbulls and dobermans. there is a citywide ban for such dogs in particular areas for a reason.

 

[Conky]

Originally posted by: tami
i'd say that we need to recategorize pitbulls and dobermans. there is a citywide ban for such dogs in particular areas for a reason.

Yeah, the reason is knee-jerk politicians. Most of these dogs that are a problem are abused so, of course, we must penalize the nice people. The people who raise these animals to fight or be mean are rarely made to be accountable for this.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Crazyfool

Originally posted by: tami
i'd say that we need to recategorize pitbulls and dobermans. there is a citywide ban for such dogs in particular areas for a reason.

Yeah, the reason is knee-jerk politicians. Most of these dogs that are a problem are abused so, of course, we must penalize the nice people. The people who raise these animals to fight or be mean are rarely made to be accountable for this.

you say "most" of these dogs that are the problem are abused. how'd you like to run into one that doesn't fall into your "most" but is still vicious?

yeh... thought so.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
you say "most" of these dogs that are the problem are abused. how'd you like to run into one that doesn't fall into your "most" but is still vicious?

yeh... thought so.

"Most" drivers on the road are sober. How'd you like to run into one that doesn't fall into the "most" category and is drunk?

Same logic. Exact same logic. So why aren't you calling for a ban on all cars?

Yeah, thought so.

ZV

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: tami
i'd say that we need to recategorize pitbulls and dobermans. there is a citywide ban for such dogs in particular areas for a reason.

:roll:
Yes there is a reason well known to all politicians. It is called pandering to the lowest denominator.

 

[tami]

Originally posted by: Crazyfool

Originally posted by: tami
i'd say that we need to recategorize pitbulls and dobermans. there is a citywide ban for such dogs in particular areas for a reason.

Yeah, the reason is knee-jerk politicians. Most of these dogs that are a problem are abused so, of course, we must penalize the nice people. The people who raise these animals to fight or be mean are rarely made to be accountable for this.

how come the ban is specifically directed towards ownership of pitbulls rather than collies or cocker spaniels or any other type of dog?

my guess is because they have the genetic predisposition to be vicious.

they could have a loving, nurturing home and still be extremely dangerous.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: tami

Originally posted by: Crazyfool

Originally posted by: tami
i'd say that we need to recategorize pitbulls and dobermans. there is a citywide ban for such dogs in particular areas for a reason.

Yeah, the reason is knee-jerk politicians. Most of these dogs that are a problem are abused so, of course, we must penalize the nice people. The people who raise these animals to fight or be mean are rarely made to be accountable for this.

how come the ban is specifically directed towards ownership of pitbulls rather than collies or cocker spaniels or any other type of dog?

my guess is because they have the genetic predisposition to be vicious.

they could have a loving, nurturing home and still be extremely dangerous.

Or perhaps it is because Nitwitness News Live at 5 pulls out the reliable "Vicious Pitbull mauls adorable 5 year old" each and every ratings sweeps.

 

[Kelemvor]

Originally posted by: nourdmrolNMT1
stfu. dogs are NOT dangerous unless they are trained to be dangerous.

QFT

Any dog can be made into an insane dog that tries to kill people. And also any dog can be trained to be a family pet. Pit Bulls can be the friendliest dogs around. Rottweilers are also incredbiyl friendly when trained properly.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: moshquerade
you say "most" of these dogs that are the problem are abused. how'd you like to run into one that doesn't fall into your "most" but is still vicious?

yeh... thought so.

"Most" drivers on the road are sober. How'd you like to run into one that doesn't fall into the "most" category and is drunk?

Same logic. Exact same logic. So why aren't you calling for a ban on all cars?

Yeah, thought so.

ZV

you cannot compare cars and dogs silly.

 

[Codewiz]

You misunderstand EVERYTHING.

Dogs are not dangerous. People who don't train their dogs or train them to be aggressive are dangerous.

Don't blame the dog, blame the people. If the dog is trained properly, then it will never never never EVER disobey its owner. End of Story. Too bad, piss poor owners cause problems for all dog owners. BTW, this goes for pit bulls. Pit bulls are NOT aggressive towards people by nature. Lack of training causes it. Pitbulls are strong willed and if their owner doesn't know how to train them, they can become a dangerous dog.

I currently am in a class with my dog. An owner with a pitbull is in there. It is an extremely sweet dog. However, the owner is just starting to get a handle on the dog. Pitbulls want to be the alpha dog, and if you own one, you can't let them be the alpha.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: tami
how come the ban is specifically directed towards ownership of pitbulls rather than collies or cocker spaniels or any other type of dog?

my guess is because they have the genetic predisposition to be vicious.

they could have a loving, nurturing home and still be extremely dangerous.

Congratulations. You've bought in to the media brainwashing. :thumbsup:

ZV

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Codewiz
You misunderstand EVERYTHING.

Dogs are not dangerous. People who don't train their dogs or train them to be aggressive are dangerous.

Don't blame the dog, blame the people. If the dog is trained properly, then it will never never never EVER disobey its owner. End of Story. Too bad, piss poor owners cause problems for all dog owners. BTW, this goes for pit bulls. Pit bulls are NOT aggressive towards people by nature. Lack of training causes it. Pitbulls are strong willed and if their owner doesn't know how to train them, they can become a dangerous dog.

I currently am in a class with my dog. An owner with a pitbull is in there. It is an extremely sweet dog. However, the owner is just starting to get a handle on the dog. Pitbulls want to be the alpha dog, and if you own one, you can't let them be the alpha.

i agree with you to a point. you are still going to have some pits show they are agressive and get out of control even with the best of owners.

i have a friend who owns a pit. he's a great owner. he and his pit were playing around and the pit clamped onto his neck. scared the hell out of him.
what's the excuse for that?

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: tami
how come the ban is specifically directed towards ownership of pitbulls rather than collies or cocker spaniels or any other type of dog?

my guess is because they have the genetic predisposition to be vicious.

they could have a loving, nurturing home and still be extremely dangerous.

Congratulations. You've bought in to the media brainwashing. :thumbsup:

ZV

nah Zem, you are just denying reality.

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Codewiz
You misunderstand EVERYTHING.

Dogs are not dangerous. People who don't train their dogs or train them to be aggressive are dangerous.

Don't blame the dog, blame the people. If the dog is trained properly, then it will never never never EVER disobey its owner. End of Story. Too bad, piss poor owners cause problems for all dog owners. BTW, this goes for pit bulls. Pit bulls are NOT aggressive towards people by nature. Lack of training causes it. Pitbulls are strong willed and if their owner doesn't know how to train them, they can become a dangerous dog.

I currently am in a class with my dog. An owner with a pitbull is in there. It is an extremely sweet dog. However, the owner is just starting to get a handle on the dog. Pitbulls want to be the alpha dog, and if you own one, you can't let them be the alpha.

i agree with you to a point. you are still going to have some pits show they are agressive and get out of control even with the best of owners.

i have a friend who owns a pit. he's a great owner. he and his pit were playing around and the pit clamped onto his neck. scared the hell out of him.
what's the excuse for that?

Simple, the pitbull is the alpha dog........

As an owner of a pitbull, you CANNOT let that dog be dominate. If the owner is viewed as the alpha dog, then the pitbull will let his owner do whatever he wants to it.

EDIT:
ALSO, I don't know how he trained his pitbull but a person should NEVER strike a dog. Dogs live to make us happy and if trained from a puppy with treats and praise, you will never have this problem.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Codewiz
You misunderstand EVERYTHING.

Dogs are not dangerous. People who don't train their dogs or train them to be aggressive are dangerous.

Don't blame the dog, blame the people. If the dog is trained properly, then it will never never never EVER disobey its owner. End of Story. Too bad, piss poor owners cause problems for all dog owners. BTW, this goes for pit bulls. Pit bulls are NOT aggressive towards people by nature. Lack of training causes it. Pitbulls are strong willed and if their owner doesn't know how to train them, they can become a dangerous dog.

I currently am in a class with my dog. An owner with a pitbull is in there. It is an extremely sweet dog. However, the owner is just starting to get a handle on the dog. Pitbulls want to be the alpha dog, and if you own one, you can't let them be the alpha.

i agree with you to a point. you are still going to have some pits show they are agressive and get out of control even with the best of owners.

i have a friend who owns a pit. he's a great owner. he and his pit were playing around and the pit clamped onto his neck. scared the hell out of him.
what's the excuse for that?

Simple, the pitbull is the alpha dog........

As an owner of a pitbull, you CANNOT let that dog be dominate. If the owner is viewed as the alpha dog, then the pitbull will let his owner do whatever he wants to it.

so you are saying he is a sucky owner?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: moshquerade
you say "most" of these dogs that are the problem are abused. how'd you like to run into one that doesn't fall into your "most" but is still vicious?

yeh... thought so.

"Most" drivers on the road are sober. How'd you like to run into one that doesn't fall into the "most" category and is drunk?

Same logic. Exact same logic. So why aren't you calling for a ban on all cars?

Yeah, thought so.

ZV

you cannot compare cars and dogs silly.

I'm not comparing dogs and cars. I'm taking your exact same logical principal and applying it universally. It's a valid technique for establishing the fallacy of a logical construct.

You logic runs thus: Because there exists a potential for even one member of the population (population in your instance being certain breeds of dogs) to be dangerous, all members of the population should be banned.

My logic ran thus: Because there exists a potential for even one member of the population (population in my instance being drivers) to be dangerous, all members of the population should be banned.

If there is at least one situation in which the logical system leads to clearly absurd results, the logic is invalid in every instance.

The simple fact is that your "logic" isn't logical. It's nothing more than a facile defence around your pre-existing prejudice against certain breeds of dogs.

ZV

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Codewiz
You misunderstand EVERYTHING.

Dogs are not dangerous. People who don't train their dogs or train them to be aggressive are dangerous.

Don't blame the dog, blame the people. If the dog is trained properly, then it will never never never EVER disobey its owner. End of Story. Too bad, piss poor owners cause problems for all dog owners. BTW, this goes for pit bulls. Pit bulls are NOT aggressive towards people by nature. Lack of training causes it. Pitbulls are strong willed and if their owner doesn't know how to train them, they can become a dangerous dog.

I currently am in a class with my dog. An owner with a pitbull is in there. It is an extremely sweet dog. However, the owner is just starting to get a handle on the dog. Pitbulls want to be the alpha dog, and if you own one, you can't let them be the alpha.

i agree with you to a point. you are still going to have some pits show they are agressive and get out of control even with the best of owners.

i have a friend who owns a pit. he's a great owner. he and his pit were playing around and the pit clamped onto his neck. scared the hell out of him.
what's the excuse for that?

Simple, the pitbull is the alpha dog........

As an owner of a pitbull, you CANNOT let that dog be dominate. If the owner is viewed as the alpha dog, then the pitbull will let his owner do whatever he wants to it.

so you are saying he is a sucky owner?

Where did I say he is a sucky owner? You can love the dog but if you don't know how to train the dog then you are going to have problems.

Until I helped train some dogs, I NEVER knew how to properly train a dog. There are lots of bad ideas. Such as yelling at the dog using its name. NEVER use the dogs name when it is in trouble. Otherwise, if it knows it did something wrong, it won't respond to its name.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: moshquerade
you say "most" of these dogs that are the problem are abused. how'd you like to run into one that doesn't fall into your "most" but is still vicious?

yeh... thought so.

"Most" drivers on the road are sober. How'd you like to run into one that doesn't fall into the "most" category and is drunk?

Same logic. Exact same logic. So why aren't you calling for a ban on all cars?

Yeah, thought so.

ZV

you cannot compare cars and dogs silly.

I'm not comparing dogs and cars. I'm taking your exact same logical principal and applying it universally. It's a valid technique for establishing the fallacy of a logical construct.

You logic runs thus: Because there exists a potential for even one member of the population (population in your instance being certain breeds of dogs) to be dangerous, all members of the population should be banned.

My logic ran thus: Because there exists a potential for even one member of the population (population in my instance being drivers) to be dangerous, all members of the population should be banned.

If there is at least one situation in which the logical system leads to clearly absurd results, the logic is invalid in every instance.

The simple fact is that your "logic" isn't logical. It's nothing more than a facile defence around your pre-existing prejudice against certain breeds of dogs.

ZV

yeh, i am prejudice against certain breeds. those that have killed people.
i have never claimed that i wanted those breeds banned though, please read.

but i will say this: some dogs, especially pits, i don't trust to ever be near even if they have "good" owners.
and that's a shame.

 

[Sentinel]

Dogs are not dangerous, they are trained to be dangerous. All dogs are inherently rough and very opinionated, but not dangerous. I have a corgi, he gets pissed and will bite, but makes him no more dangerous than any other dog.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Codewiz
You misunderstand EVERYTHING.

Dogs are not dangerous. People who don't train their dogs or train them to be aggressive are dangerous.

Don't blame the dog, blame the people. If the dog is trained properly, then it will never never never EVER disobey its owner. End of Story. Too bad, piss poor owners cause problems for all dog owners. BTW, this goes for pit bulls. Pit bulls are NOT aggressive towards people by nature. Lack of training causes it. Pitbulls are strong willed and if their owner doesn't know how to train them, they can become a dangerous dog.

I currently am in a class with my dog. An owner with a pitbull is in there. It is an extremely sweet dog. However, the owner is just starting to get a handle on the dog. Pitbulls want to be the alpha dog, and if you own one, you can't let them be the alpha.

i agree with you to a point. you are still going to have some pits show they are agressive and get out of control even with the best of owners.

i have a friend who owns a pit. he's a great owner. he and his pit were playing around and the pit clamped onto his neck. scared the hell out of him.
what's the excuse for that?

Simple, the pitbull is the alpha dog........

As an owner of a pitbull, you CANNOT let that dog be dominate. If the owner is viewed as the alpha dog, then the pitbull will let his owner do whatever he wants to it.

so you are saying he is a sucky owner?

Where did I say he is a sucky owner? You can love the dog but if you don't know how to train the dog then you are going to have problems.

Until I helped train some dogs, I NEVER knew how to properly train a dog. There are lots of bad ideas. Such as yelling at the dog using its name. NEVER use the dogs name when it is in trouble. Otherwise, if it knows it did something wrong, it won't respond to its name.

so you are saying right here and right now that a "properly trained" pit will NEVER harm anyone?

 

[DougK62]

My brother owns two large pitbulls and has a four year old son and we wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: moshquerade
you say "most" of these dogs that are the problem are abused. how'd you like to run into one that doesn't fall into your "most" but is still vicious?

yeh... thought so.

"Most" drivers on the road are sober. How'd you like to run into one that doesn't fall into the "most" category and is drunk?

Same logic. Exact same logic. So why aren't you calling for a ban on all cars?

Yeah, thought so.

ZV

you cannot compare cars and dogs silly.

I'm not comparing dogs and cars. I'm taking your exact same logical principal and applying it universally. It's a valid technique for establishing the fallacy of a logical construct.

You logic runs thus: Because there exists a potential for even one member of the population (population in your instance being certain breeds of dogs) to be dangerous, all members of the population should be banned.

My logic ran thus: Because there exists a potential for even one member of the population (population in my instance being drivers) to be dangerous, all members of the population should be banned.

If there is at least one situation in which the logical system leads to clearly absurd results, the logic is invalid in every instance.

The simple fact is that your "logic" isn't logical. It's nothing more than a facile defence around your pre-existing prejudice against certain breeds of dogs.

ZV

yeh, i am prejudice against certain breeds. those that have killed people.
i have never claimed that i wanted those breeds banned though, please read.

but i will say this: some dogs, especially pits, i don't trust to ever be near even if they have "good" owners.
and that's a shame.

Good is a relative term.

They could be a GREAT PERFECT owner for a lab.

However, pitbulls are a different breed. I would not be comfortable being an owner of one. The owner needs to understand exactly how to train a pitbull and ensure it knows its place among humans.

In my training class, I am not scared of the pitbull at all. She has already been put in her place. Actually my puppy who is a boston bulldog put her in her place. Dogs are pack animals and if a pitbull feels it is the alpha in the pack or dogs/humans, you are going to have trouble.

This is why pitbulls are only recommended for EXPERIENCED owners that know how to deal with the breed. I am definately not saying that any person could raise a pitbull correctly. When raised incorrectly, pitbulls are especially dangerous.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
yeh, i am prejudice against certain breeds. those that have killed people.
i have never claimed that i wanted those breeds banned though, please read.

If you're claiming that

how'd you like to run into one that doesn't fall into your "most" but is still vicious?

yeh... thought so.

didn't clearly imply that you were in favour of banning the ownership of certain breeds, especiall given that you juxtaposed it against a post that was in opposition to banning the ownership of certain breeds, then you have even less logical ability than I gave you credit for initially.

ZV

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Codewiz
You misunderstand EVERYTHING.

Dogs are not dangerous. People who don't train their dogs or train them to be aggressive are dangerous.

Don't blame the dog, blame the people. If the dog is trained properly, then it will never never never EVER disobey its owner. End of Story. Too bad, piss poor owners cause problems for all dog owners. BTW, this goes for pit bulls. Pit bulls are NOT aggressive towards people by nature. Lack of training causes it. Pitbulls are strong willed and if their owner doesn't know how to train them, they can become a dangerous dog.

I currently am in a class with my dog. An owner with a pitbull is in there. It is an extremely sweet dog. However, the owner is just starting to get a handle on the dog. Pitbulls want to be the alpha dog, and if you own one, you can't let them be the alpha.

i agree with you to a point. you are still going to have some pits show they are agressive and get out of control even with the best of owners.

i have a friend who owns a pit. he's a great owner. he and his pit were playing around and the pit clamped onto his neck. scared the hell out of him.
what's the excuse for that?

Simple, the pitbull is the alpha dog........

As an owner of a pitbull, you CANNOT let that dog be dominate. If the owner is viewed as the alpha dog, then the pitbull will let his owner do whatever he wants to it.

so you are saying he is a sucky owner?

Where did I say he is a sucky owner? You can love the dog but if you don't know how to train the dog then you are going to have problems.

Until I helped train some dogs, I NEVER knew how to properly train a dog. There are lots of bad ideas. Such as yelling at the dog using its name. NEVER use the dogs name when it is in trouble. Otherwise, if it knows it did something wrong, it won't respond to its name.

so you are saying right here and right now that a "properly trained" pit will NEVER harm anyone?

YES, if a pitbull is trained properly, it will NEVER harm a person. The pitbull will view ALL humans as alpha males over it. The only time it would ever get aggressive is if the owner were being attacked. Then it would be aggressive.

Guess what, if the dog thought the owner was being attacked and the owner said "No" to a properly trained pit, it would stop in its tracks.

However, most pitbull owners do not understand the breed and give it a bad name.