Should religion be banned?

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nonlnear

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2008
2,497
0
76
When can we expect you to cease having faith in gov't?
Silly rabbit, the conception of deities may be a mythical abstraction, but the moral right of government is concrete reality. See? There's a government right... there! It's as plain as the nose on your face.
 

SlitheryDee

Lifer
Feb 2, 2005
17,252
19
81
Of course not. Banning stuff is never a good option. Freedom means freedom to do things you or I might not necessarily think is a good idea. We seem to adhere to that ideal when it suits us and jettison it when it doesn't.

My opinion is that religion is no longer relevant and will fall by the wayside in it's own time. Attempting to rush that result by banning it seems as likely to cause a strong resurgence as to actually accomplish the intended goal.
 
May 11, 2008
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Both Christianity and Islam have parts in their holy books than command the murder of children..murder of rape victims..stoning of women who aren't virgins on their wedding nights, etc. As for raping children, that particular commandment is not in the bible..but when a religion forces priests to become celibate and drones the idea in their head that sex is bad and lusting after women is a sin, you are repressing a natural human instinct..so they end up unleashing it on kids when they think they can get away with it.

You are very right.

The problem is that texts from the bible are family or tribe stories that are dramatized. The islam is very similar in that way. Every body knows in their hart right from wrong. Even if they don't live by it. Everybody who takes the texts in the bible or the koran literally is bound to do wrong and harmful things. And i see the jewish religious texts and the christian bible as the same.

And i fully agree about the celibate life.
Let's think of the following 3 hypothetical situations :

Situation 1:
A young man is not attracted to women. Since he has grown up in a religious environment where women are seen as sin, he feels when he is in adolescence very insecure and he finds peace in his holy book. He is filled with questions and is seeking answers. He decides to become a priest. There he discovers his passion for young boys. And although he sees them as innocent and must treat him kind, his sexual thoughts do not leave him alone. He is bound to make the mistake.

Situation 2:
A young man is not attracted to women. Since he has grown up in a religious environment where women are seen as sin, he feels when he is in adolescence very insecure and he finds peace in his holy book. He is filled with questions and is seeking answers. He decides to become a priest. He becomes a priest because he thinks he is touched by god freeing him from the sin of women. Thinking he is actually part angel because he likes angels so much. Why ? Since angels are supposed to be asexual. Then he finds out the truth : He discovers that he prefers males of his own age. When he meets someone who is a homosexual like himself , they unleash each other in wild passion. Feeding his desires and making him more likely that he will make the same (mistake ?) again. Now this is not very unlikely. But depending on the priests/ iman's / whatever person, the outcome of how that person deals with it is very different indeed.

Situation 3:
This situation is not as rare and not unlikely, someone with extreme discipline and who prefers women can be a priest. But he will very likely not feel complete ever, feeding his devotion to god. And someday he just might become fundamentally religious because he has to deal with "normal" people who live sexual lives and have other for him disturbing habits such as hugging and caressing.
Turning his desire and longing for a woman's touch into hate for any woman he actually desires.

I am touching dangerous grounds here but i will give my opinion anyway :
A man and a woman are meant for each other. But they have to be right for each other, if they do not get along it just won't work. If they only like each other for the sex and that is the reason they got married in the first place, spiritually they have no connection and this will be the reason of the divorce or cheating or violence. Men and women are supposed to compensate each other not only sexually but also spiritually. One can not survive without the other. Thinking you can is foolish. The only way is to remove the gonads. But removing reproductive organs will make the body sick and weak if we do not compensate for the loss of hormones. Because evolutionary wise, humans are still based on this building plan for reproduction. If humans have often sex, the stronger and healthier they feel. But having sex with every one and everything is not the way because then the fast spread of dangerous pathogens will occur. A good example is hiv and hepatites spreading so fast in the past because of the sex islands and swinger clubs where everybody was having unsafe sex with everybody. Even today with everybody knowing the dangers people still exhibit dangerous behaviour. Some are past 50 and feel like they want to enjoy there remaining lives as much as possible and as such they really do not care about these things. A pedophile cannot have a normal life. And having sex without the love, as many gay men and a few gay women have, only feeds the desire for more sex. And the desire for more sex turns slowly into more extreme sex because there is no love to compensate for the addictive effect of sex. Once any person have had sex willingly(to negate the effects of strong emotions or blocking), it never leaves the mind increasing the desire and the craving. It is not for a reason that in religious countries women have to be covered up because of all the sexual frustration.

In our western world and increasingly globally, this desire and craving is often (ab)used to sell stuff. Example :You want to sell an awful tasting can of beans, just slap on a picture of a beautiful woman and some cleavage on it or an attractive athletic man. It will sell faster then a picture of a big loving grandmother who makes the best bean sauce ever made. Even when the beans actually taste good and the grandmother picture is applied.
 
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HGC

Senior member
Dec 22, 1999
605
0
0
That's frickin a frickin idiotic quote.
Don't blame me. Einstein was the one who said it.

By the way, is it possible to discuss this without calling one's fellow Anandtechers "ridiculous", " frickin idiotic", "bitch", and "stupider than my dog's penis?

I suppose that kind of emotional argument serves a purpose, though. It highlights the fact that supposedly rational anti-religionists aren't always so rational.
 
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manowar821

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2007
6,063
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Don't blame me. Einstein was the one who said it.

By the way, is it possible to discuss this without calling one's fellow Anandtechers "ridiculous", " frickin idiotic", "bitch", and "stupider than my dog's penis?

I suppose that kind of emotional argument serves a purpose, though. It highlights the fact that supposedly rational anti-religionists aren't always so rational.

And how exactly does copy-pasting a quote, out of context, and without a proper understanding of the original meaning provide any kind of argument?

What a joke.
 

HGC

Senior member
Dec 22, 1999
605
0
0
And how exactly does copy-pasting a quote, out of context, and without a proper understanding of the original meaning provide any kind of argument?

What a joke.
I stated that Einstein believed in an ultimate intelligence, and sometimes used the name God to describe it. The next reply was that this was not true. I posted an Einstein reference to God to show it was.

The context was obvious to anyone following the thread.

I guess we can add "what a joke" to all the other gratuitous insults.
 

HGC

Senior member
Dec 22, 1999
605
0
0
Here's the full context for those who don't want to go back and read it.

Someone stated that the antidote to religion was education. I disagree, so I pointed out that Einstein was religious and not uneducated. Someone said this was wrong and people saying it are stupid. I said why split hairs over literal definitions of religion and God, Einstein believed in an ultimate intelligence and sometimes called it God. Someone denied both these points, so I posted two Einstein quotes, one glorifying religious experience as the basis of scientific research, and another attributing simple scientific solutions to God.

It's not fair to assume religious and spiritual people are ignorant and superstitious. That was my point. I think the knee jerk ad hominem responses kind of made my point a second time.

By the way, I don't belong to a church and am not a fan of much of what organized religions teach these days.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Here's the full context for those who don't want to go back and read it.

Someone stated that the antidote to religion was education. I disagree, so I pointed out that Einstein was religious and not uneducated. Someone said this was wrong and people saying it are stupid. I said why split hairs over literal definitions of religion and God, Einstein believed in an ultimate intelligence and sometimes called it God. Someone denied both these points, so I posted two Einstein quotes, one glorifying religious experience as the basis of scientific research, and another attributing simple scientific solutions to God.

It's not fair to assume religious and spiritual people are ignorant and superstitious. That was my point. I think the knee jerk ad hominem responses kind of made my point a second time.

By the way, I don't belong to a church and am not a fan of much of what organized religions teach these days.

Uhh, not Einstein was not religious. Here...

Albert Einstein is on record as saying that he did not believe in a personal God. He said:

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

Einstein also said:

"I am a deeply religious nonbeliever. This is a somewhat new kind of religion. I have never imputed to Nature a purpose or a goal, or anything that could be understood as anthropomorphic. What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very imperfectly and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism. The idea of a personal God is quite alien to me and seems even naive."

He was more a "lifeforce" believer and not a Deity believer. He believe the Universe offered more mysteries to be found and eventually explained for the adventurous to do so. Being spiritual however is NOT being religious. He did not believe in a deity. He did not believe int he supernatural. He did not believe in the unexplainable. That was not so say he wasn't moral or didn't believe in the good will and nature of mankind and life in general. He was for any person or organization, religious or not, that did seek to better mankind as a whole without holding it back.
 

lepper boy

Golden Member
Nov 2, 1999
1,877
0
76
Religion, a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects.

So…. To ban religion you would also get to ban anything and everything that holds an agreed upon set of beliefs.

Conservatives, Liberals, peta members, NRA members and more.
 

HGC

Senior member
Dec 22, 1999
605
0
0
Uhh, not Einstein was not religious. Here...



He was more a "lifeforce" believer and not a Deity believer. He believe the Universe offered more mysteries to be found and eventually explained for the adventurous to do so. Being spiritual however is NOT being religious. He did not believe in a deity. He did not believe int he supernatural. He did not believe in the unexplainable. That was not so say he wasn't moral or didn't believe in the good will and nature of mankind and life in general. He was for any person or organization, religious or not, that did seek to better mankind as a whole without holding it back.
Those are great Einstein quotes you posted. I understand that he did not believe in an a supernatural anthropomorphic personal God. But that doesn't mean he was not religious. He used that word to describe himself.

That was my original point, really. Not all religious people are operating on blind faith. Many, like Einstein, are inspired by the reality they can see. Religious people are not necessarily in need of education.
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
People are always quick to see the negative in things. They love misery and tragedy. You see people posting bad things about religion but where are the good things they do ? How many religious charities are there ? How many people have been provided food and health care from religious organizations ? Who runs the local soup kitchens and helps out people when their homes burn down or in disasters ? I bet it isn't any of the people saying how they hate religion.


I do not belong to any organized religion but I do believe in God. If I am wrong and I die, oh well. If an atheist dies and is wrong they are screwed.
 
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piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
I believe in freedom of speech. This includes religious institutions. So are you against freedom of speech?
 

totalnoob

Golden Member
Jul 17, 2009
1,389
1
81
My beliefs coincide with the beliefs of what I think a creator or God would want where as an atheists typically believes whatever the people they socialize with believe. Who are the real sheep ?

Actually, more likely than not your beliefs coincide with the deity your parents believed in and indoctrinated you into believing as a child..not through any process of thought or reflection.
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
0
0
Is there life after death? Hmmm, let me get back to you on that.

So far as anyone on Earth can prove you only live once, but why should that stop a person from doing the right thing? Doing the "right thing" is it's own reward. A clear consicence makes a soft pillow.
 

HGC

Senior member
Dec 22, 1999
605
0
0
I do not belong to any organized religion but I do believe in God. If I am wrong and I die, oh well. If an atheist dies and is wrong they are screwed.
I never really understood this point of view.

Man A is a thoughtful, commpassionate humanist who devotes himself to helping the needy, but does not believe in God. Man B abuses people and commits crimes, but he believes in and worships God.

Man A gets eternal torture. No chance after a quadrillion years to apologize and get on board with the right prayers. Man B gets eternal paradise. Maybe he'll stop with the bad behavior when he gets to heaven.

I find it impossible to believe that God could not only be cruel, petty, and capricious, but the most cruel, petty and capricuious being imaginable.

Isn't it a kind of blasphemy to make God out to be basically evil by everything we know?
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
Above, God didn't do this or the belief there in. But religion and men in power . For those who don't know . A church is the gathering of 2 or more people in Christ name. Its not a building .
 
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