Is there evidence that Males are deciding to transition to gain a advantage to compete in woman's sports?
This outrage is more about Republican Politicians scoring political points by going after transgender people than it is about protecting woman's sports.
https://www.newsweek.com/why-im-proud-support-trans-athletes-like-lia-thomas-opinion-1689192
I agree with Olympic Swimmer Erica Sullivan's opinion on this.
Many of those who oppose transgender athletes like Lia being able to participate in sports claim to be "protecting women's sports." As a woman in sports, I can tell you that I know what the real threats to women's sports are: sexual abuse and harassment, unequal pay and resources and a lack of women in leadership. Transgender girls and women are nowhere on this list. Women's sports are stronger when all women—including trans women—are protected from discrimination, and free to be their true selves.
I agree, this is a tiny issue, which should be worked out by the sports associations using science as opposed to politicians using hate.I love sports and care about them quite a bit. I mean I’m from Philly - it’s hard to care more about sports than we do.
I reiterate, who gives a shit about this though. This is stupid, crazy, or evil people looking for something to fight about. The percentage of people this affects is vanishingly small.
Poll question does not match the thread title, jackass. I had a stronk trying to parse the poll question. Still not 100% sure what it is asking, because what it is literally asking is stupid. Trans people *should* do whatever the fuck they want to do.
Why do you care? Aren’t there about a million more important things to worry about first?Yes. It shouldn't be allowed and that is simply because the trans athelete still has the chemistry of a man.
The testosterone, muscular makeup, the demeanor of a male. There is no getting around that.
Yes. It shouldn't be allowed and that is simply because the trans athelete still has the chemistry of a man.
The testosterone, muscular makeup, the demeanor of a male. There is no getting around that.
You cut your balls off and take estro shots. Chemistry of a man, damn dude thats ignorant.
You're right, no one should care. There shouldn't be any regulations controlling a fair playing field in sports. Anything that enhances performance should be allowed, and no distinction should be made between men's and women's sports.Why do you care? Aren’t there about a million more important things to worry about first?
This is the latest state to ban trans girls from competing in sports.
Pennsylvania Senate passes bill against trans girls playing girls' sports (msn.com)
I have no problem if a boy feels he is a girl, or vice-versa. But males are physically different than females, therefore I support this. There are some sports where a male (regardless of gender choice) have an advantage in certain sports.
I actually dont, no, there is the cultural aspect to it and testosterone. If you’d ever been juicing you’d know what I am talking about.Well don't you think that men are more aggressive by nature than females? That is what I was alluding too.
Finally something we agree on, the state should stay out of it.You're right, no one should care. There shouldn't be any regulations controlling a fair playing field in sports. Anything that enhances performance should be allowed, and no distinction should be made between men's and women's sports.
I bet the large majority of people advocating these sorts of bans don't know a single trans person. It's pure culture war by entitled assholes desperately seeking something to be angry about.Hey asshole, my 13 year old trans daughter gets bullied relentlessly by CIS boys, and is accepted by most CIS girls. She loves basketball and it helped her get out of a deep depression when she was able to play basketball on the girls team this year. She scored exactly ZERO points and her team won a single game all season but it made all the difference to her mental health to be able to play. A blanket ban like this would devastate her and for what purpose? Fuck you and those like you.
Yes. It shouldn't be allowed and that is simply because the trans athelete still has the chemistry of a man.
The testosterone, muscular makeup, the demeanor of a male. There is no getting around that.
Well, that's certainly one narrative. Is it true?That’s exactly what the Lia Thomas story was. As a male swimmer average to slightly above average. As a woman record smasher
Doesn’t sound fair to me
The father of one of Thomas’s teammates suggested to Fox News that trans athletes stood between his daughter and her Olympic dreams. “Lia is going to go to the N.C.A.A.’s, and she’s going to take down Katie Ledecky’s record, she’s going to take down Missy Franklin’s record, and it’s not because she is an exceptional woman,” he said.
In fact, Thomas’s top time in the five-hundred-yard freestyle is a full ten seconds slower than Ledecky’s, and Franklin’s record is also well ahead of Thomas’s best.
Thomas won her race – but didn’t break records
Let's look first at Ms Thomas's record in the NCAA. While some of her fastest times have been in other competitions, these are the easiest results to access and compare across multiple years and athletes.
All statistics in this article are for "short course yards" races, meaning they were done in a 25-yard pool.
Ms Thomas won the women's 500 yard freestyle race in 4m 33.24s. She came fifth in the 200 yard race, with 1m 43.40s, and eighth in the 100 yard race with 48.40s.
These were impressive results, but they weren't record-breaking. Though the overall competition saw 27 all-time NCAA records broken, Ms Thomas's times weren't among them.
A whopping 18 of those were broken by Kate Douglass of the University of Virginia (UVA), who now has the fastest times in US college history in the 50 yard freestyle, the 100 yard butterfly stroke, and the 200 yard breaststroke.
"It is easy to see how dominant Kate Douglass has become in the sport," wrote Swimming World. "Many dominant swimmers have had three titles, and even three records, in one meet. But no swimmer in NCAA women’s history has ever won three different strokes in a single meet that involve the breaststroke, let alone three records."
Other records were broken by Katherine Berkoff of North Carolina State University and Alex Walsh of UVA, as well as UVA's medley teams in several events.
According to an Independent search of women's records listed by USA Swimming, the US' national governing body for the sport, Ms Thomas's 500 yard time makes her the 15th fastest college swimmer, about nine seconds behind Katie Ledecky's record in 2017.
Her swimming times are on par with cis women
How do these times compare to other women in the top ranks of US college swimming?
The Independent compiled a dataset of swim times for all top 8 NCAA women's finishers over the last six years of competition in various events. 2020 was excluded because all NCAA championships were cancelled that year due to the pandemic.
In other words, this data only includes the absolute best college swimmers in these events. It goes back far enough to cover Katie Ledecky's 4m 24.06s record in the 500 yard race and Missy Franklin's 1m 38.10s record in the 200 yard race, both of which still stand today.
In this field, Ms Thomas's time in the 500 yards is the eighth fastest out of 56. That is notable because there are only seven events in the dataset, meaning there are some where her time would have only place her third.
In the 100 yard race, her time is 55th out of 56 in The Independent's data, and her time in the 200 yard race is the 31st out of 5.
Her 500 yard time of 4m 33.24 is just above the average (4m 36.07s), while her 100 yard time of 48.18s is just below average (47.06s), as is her 200 yard time of 1m 43.24s (compared to 1m42.85).
The Independent also looked at numbers for the 500 yard men's race, where Ms Thomas has competed at a high level in both men's and women's events, from 2015 to 2021. There, her finishing time is more than 20 seconds below the men's average.
If you take those times and move them to the men's circuit where does that place Thomas? The times would be average. I agree with another poster while it sounds completely unfair to me women need to sort this out. Whatever they agree on I'm cool with it.Well, that's certainly one narrative. Is it true?
The Trans Swimmer Who Won Too Much
Lia Thomas is not the first trans swimmer in the N.C.A.A., but her victories have put her at the center of a debate about trans athletes.www.newyorker.com
Why the data shows trans swimming champion Lia Thomas didn’t have an unfair advantage
The NCAA champion has sparked controversy and become a hate figure among conservatives, but statistics show little evidence that she performed any differently to other women, Io Dodds reportswww.independent.co.uk
Gosh, it's weird how you're asking that question when it was literally in the text I quoted, and then you proceed to make up a lie about the actual examined data. Kinda makes one wonder.If you take those times and move them to the men's circuit where does that place Thomas? The times would be average. I agree with another poster while it sounds completely unfair to me women need to sort this out. Whatever they agree on I'm cool with it.
The Independent also looked at numbers for the 500 yard men's race, where Ms Thomas has competed at a high level in both men's and women's events, from 2015 to 2021. There, her finishing time is more than 20 seconds below the men's average.
I wouldn't bother asking me about fairness of sports, as I'm not a sports fan and of the mind that we culturally place an abhorrent amount of importance on them, and we're not culturally that concerned with "fairness" in many other aspects of life. Michael Phelps was born with "unfair" genetics that make him a beast at swimming, probably we ought to keep him out of the pool.Swimmer Lia Thomas, Who Is Transgender, Continues to Break Women's Records (msn.com)
What happens if a male tennis player decides to self identify and compete in the women's tour? Think that is fair? Check out mixed doubles. I submit it would be the end of women's tennis
The swim meet I listed Lia set the school record for the 500M freestyle with a time of 4:34:06 which turned out to be the best in the country at that time. I then went and looked up average times for college men at the 500M free. The following list shows the times required just to qualify swimming in college. For Tier1 men in the 500M that time is 4:23.30.Gosh, it's weird how you're asking that question when it was literally in the text I quoted, and then you proceed to make up a lie about the actual examined data. Kinda makes one wonder.
I wouldn't bother asking me about fairness of sports, as I'm not a sports fan and of the mind that we culturally place an abhorrent amount of importance on them, and we're not culturally that concerned with "fairness" in many other aspects of life. Michael Phelps was born with "unfair" genetics that make him a beast at swimming, probably we ought to keep him out of the pool.
I don't have any issue with requiring HRT of 24+ months before switching adult divisions.
However, keeping trans kids out of sports in schools is just a fucked-up way to keep trans kids down and make them aware you think they're monsters. Give their times an * or something if they happen to win, whatever, just let the kids play.
I guess she's lucky Katie Ledecky must not have competed in that one?The swim meet I listed Lia set the school record for the 500M freestyle with a time of 4:34:06 which turned out to be the best in the country at that time. I then went and looked up average times for college men at the 500M free. The following list shows the times required just to qualify swimming in college. For Tier1 men in the 500M that time is 4:23.30.
Men's College Swimming Recruiting Times | College Swimming Times (ncsasports.org)
Lia's record breaking time is slower then qualifying time for mens 500M free.
Check out the numbers yourself
Gosh, it's weird how you're asking that question when it was literally in the text I quoted, and then you proceed to make up a lie about the actual examined data. Kinda makes one wonder.
I wouldn't bother asking me about fairness of sports, as I'm not a sports fan and of the mind that we culturally place an abhorrent amount of importance on them, and we're not culturally that concerned with "fairness" in many other aspects of life. Michael Phelps was born with "unfair" genetics that make him a beast at swimming, probably we ought to keep him out of the pool.
I don't have any issue with requiring HRT of 24+ months before switching adult divisions.
However, keeping trans kids out of sports in schools is just a fucked-up way to keep trans kids down and make them aware you think they're monsters. Give their times an * or something if they happen to win, whatever, just let the kids play.
Like I said earlier women are going to have to work this out