Should teachers or school admin carry guns?

[cwjerome]

First let me say the horrible tragedy at Sandy Hook should give us all pause. "Horrible tragedy" doesn't even come close to the bitter reality. Hug your kids/nieces/nephews/etc today.

In an attempt to save the original thread for being more about news and condolences, I figured I'd start this one on a related subject inspired by this quote from that thread:

You would trust a teacher to put idea's in your child's head but not to carry a weapon?

It's an interesting take. We let 19-24 year-old's carry weapons and allow them to shoot at people... young cops, and go on easy military installation and most of the security consists of kids a couple years out of AIT. Could a teacher be checked and trained to use a firearm in an emergency?

We have private security guards in society carrying guns to protect... objects. Are children worth protecting in the same manner?

I am a gun rights person, I was raised with guns and I have and use many. But there is something unsettling and different about having teachers carry. I don't cherish the thought of schools and guns going together. I am also a teacher, and the thought of some teachers carrying guns scares the shat out of me. But... there are people like me who are experienced, proficient, mature, and even current/former military who would be excellent, safe candidates.

I am undecided, but lean in the direction that if a good and proper system was put in place and followed correctly, it might be a workable issue.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

I think it's too soon to discuss the topic rationally. People will let emotions get the better of reason on both sides of the debate, and that just makes for a broken dialogue. We need to take time to compose ourself after a tragedy like this before we can probe into deeper questions about how we can prevent it from happening again.

 

[Nintendesert]

No, that's what police are for. Just have guards at the front door and have the doors locked. Check people coming in.

I've read a few reports that the front door to the school was locked and required the shooter to be buzzed into the school. There's your point of failure that needs fixing.

 

[boochi]

Everybody should be packing.

 

[Meghan54]

I've read a few reports that the front door to the school was locked and required the shooter to be buzzed into the school. There's your point of failure that needs fixing.

It did help that the shooter's mother taught at the school, and was one of the fatalities of said shooter.

 

[Nintendesert]

It did help that the shooter's mother taught at the school, and was one of the fatalities of said shooter.

Sure, another criminal using social engineering to achieve his/her goals. Just because you know someone doesn't mean you should trust them, especially when the kid was a known crazy nut.

100% weapons check by guards each and every time someone comes into the school.

 

[Fern]

-snip-
I've read a few reports that the front door to the school was locked and required the shooter to be buzzed into the school. There's your point of failure that needs fixing.

Yep.

Fern

 

[cwjerome]

Sure, another criminal using social engineering to achieve his/her goals. Just because you know someone doesn't mean you should trust them, especially when the kid was a known crazy nut.

100% weapons check by guards each and every time someone comes into the school.

Most of the middle and high schools I know of in AZ have a resource officer, although he might not be on campus at a given time. Elementary schools normally don't have one at all.

The idea of a guard is interesting but would have to overcome some possible issues. You have to pay someone reasonably well only to have him doing not much of anything 75% of the time. What about before school and after school? You'll probably have to hire a couple. That is also a single point of failure... if the guard goes down early and fast, then what?

 

[Tiamat]

If the govt wants a particular zone to be gun free, such as a school, they need to provide armed ”guards” to maintain such a law. Don't just have a gun free rule or law and then not provide armed security. That is just asinine. Expensive? Yup! But that is the inherent cost of gun free zones esp. if to prevent gun related violence, a cost that politicians and establishment owners have failed to pay or blatantly ignore as demonstrated in unfortunate tragic occasions.

 

[Retro Rob]

Armed security and periodic rounds done my police should be good enough, especially in the days following this. Copy-cats are out there as well.

 

[Nintendesert]

Most of the middle and high schools I know of in AZ have a resource officer, although he might not be on campus at a given time. Elementary schools normally don't have one at all.

The idea of a guard is interesting but would have to overcome some possible issues. You have to pay someone reasonably well only to have him doing not much of anything 75% of the time. What about before school and after school? You'll probably have to hire a couple. That is also a single point of failure... if the guard goes down early and fast, then what?

It just depends on how you manage the entry point. You do it like a secure facility, outer door and an inner door. Check done in the middle. If the guard goes down the inner doors stay locked and the outer doors lock so the assailant can't get away.

 

[Fenixgoon]

1: no
2: even if you were to arm teachers/principals, you'd need to train them to be highly proficient (and no i don't mean in the same manner as getting a driver's license, which is pathetic). the level of training required would be distasteful and probably cost-prohibitive.

sometimes you need to accept that irrational people do irrational things, and we can only try our best to prevent these things from happening easily. we cannot prevent them from happening entirely.

most times, more laws are just going to make it worse for rational and law-abiding citizens.

 

[lord_emperor]

That's a great idea until the teacher's gun is found by a child who shoots itself.

There are so many schools, teachers and students that statistically there'd probably be more accidental deaths then murders in the long run.

 

[BoberFett]

Am I opposed to administrators carrying? No, I'm not afraid of guns. But it's not an answer to this situation. A gunmen intent on killing in this situation could easily kill the teacher first, ensuring that the only adult with immediate presence is removed, whether that teacher is carrying or not. Any other response depends on how quickly people realize what's happening and someone who is licensed to carry is able to enter the room and eliminate the shooter. There's still plenty of time to kill every child in the room.

Today's events could not have been stopped by concealed carry. That doesn't mean I don't believe in carrying weapons, only that it wouldn't have helped today.

 

[Fern]

That's a great idea until the teacher's gun is found by a child who shoots itself.

There are so many schools, teachers and students that statistically there'd probably be more accidental deaths then murders in the long run.

Good point.

Fern

 

[Fern]

Am I opposed to administrators carrying? No, I'm not afraid of guns. But it's not an answer to this situation. A gunmen intent on killing in this situation could easily kill the teacher first, ensuring that the only adult with immediate presence is removed, whether that teacher is carrying or not. Any other response depends on how quickly people realize what's happening and someone who is licensed to carry is able to enter the room and eliminate the shooter. There's still plenty of time to kill every child in the room.

Today's events could not have been stopped by concealed carry. That doesn't mean I don't believe in carrying weapons, only that it wouldn't have helped today.

^^This^^

Fern

 

[Fanatical Meat]

No never.
What we ALL need to do is support people who have mental issues that relate to violence or altered reality. Better family support, better community support and better treatment. Nobody should feel bad about reporting someone who has issues to police/social services for check ins.

 

[sandorski]

Dumb idea is dumb.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Am I opposed to administrators carrying? No, I'm not afraid of guns. But it's not an answer to this situation. A gunmen intent on killing in this situation could easily kill the teacher first, ensuring that the only adult with immediate presence is removed, whether that teacher is carrying or not. Any other response depends on how quickly people realize what's happening and someone who is licensed to carry is able to enter the room and eliminate the shooter. There's still plenty of time to kill every child in the room.

Today's events could not have been stopped by concealed carry. That doesn't mean I don't believe in carrying weapons, only that it wouldn't have helped today.

To add to the discussion: do you think knowledge that there are armed people at a school would have deterred this guy?

Why would concealed carry not have stopped this - because not many people in CT carry?

I mean - I agree on guards in schools...but if the guy got through the door, he probably could have killed the guard too.

 

[shortylickens]

Many teachers are hardcore ultra libs and wont carry. We already have a shortage in America do you really wanna make it worse?

 

[DrPizza]

To add to the discussion: do you think knowledge that there are armed people at a school would have deterred this guy?

Why would concealed carry not have stopped this - because not many people in CT carry?

I mean - I agree on guards in schools...but if the guy got through the door, he probably could have killed the guard too.

And this. Some people seem to think that police are magical. In this situation, if there was an armed officer at the school who buzzed him in, the armed officer would merely have been the first person shot. The lobby scene in the Matrix probably sums this up the best; (though it's just a movie.) To get into a nearby government building, there is an armed sheriff at the door, manning the metal detector that you must pass through to enter. He's often sitting there reading a newspaper, and looks annoyed when he has to get up to wave his wand on someone who inadvertently is carrying some metallic object. He hardly seems alert to the possibility of danger. After a couple years in a school, dealing with kids all day, soccer moms and fathers, PTA types, etc., do you really think an officer is going to be leery of someone entering the building who is familiar with those surroundings and looks like he belongs? Almost any normal person is going to become complacent in that situation.

As far as concealed carry - it wouldn't have stopped it, though if a teacher were armed, it could potentially have decreased the number of casualties. But, put yourself in my position - let's say I had a firearm, and am a teacher. I hear gun shots from my classroom. Do you think I'm going to abandon the students who are currently in my custody to head off somewhere to engage an unknown shooter? If I were armed, and my classroom were the second classroom that the shooter targeted, then it would make a difference. Otherwise, no.

 

[shortylickens]

To add to the discussion: do you think knowledge that there are armed people at a school would have deterred this guy?

Why would concealed carry not have stopped this - because not many people in CT carry?

I mean - I agree on guards in schools...but if the guy got through the door, he probably could have killed the guard too.

I am honestly not sure.

I find it interesting psycho's never attack a police precinct, dont you?

 

[SergeC]

I am honestly not sure.

I find it interesting psycho's never attack a police precinct, dont you?

Off the top of my head. I'm sure there are many more.

http://www.policemag.com/videos/channel/patrol/2011/01/detroit-police-precinct-attack.aspx

 

[Druidx]

Absolutely a horrible idea to allow a teacher to carry a gun. They are there to teach and many can barely do that right. If anyone has a gun at a school, it needs to be a trained professional who's ONLY job is security.

 

[Agent11]

1: no
2: even if you were to arm teachers/principals, you'd need to train them to be highly proficient (and no i don't mean in the same manner as getting a driver's license, which is pathetic). the level of training required would be distasteful and probably cost-prohibitive.

sometimes you need to accept that irrational people do irrational things, and we can only try our best to prevent these things from happening easily. we cannot prevent them from happening entirely.

most times, more laws are just going to make it worse for rational and law-abiding citizens.

Wouldn't be hard. Have it be voluntary, if you want to you get a free range membership and a membership in the school 'shooting club' and all the member teachers go and practice together.

No need to make things overly complicated. You think the average shooter is Annie Oakley? Being familiar with gun safety, how to handle the firearm safely when loaded and being familiar with shooting is all that is needed.