Should teachers or school admin carry guns?

[xj0hnx]

You really don't have a clue. And yes "when people conceal carry there are gun fights and violence".



http://www.vpc.org/ccwkillers.htm

Do they have an agenda, yes.. But facts are facts regardless of whether you agree with them or not. Again schools/churches and other public places are not the venue for people to be carrying weapons period.

Wow, you are REALLY grasping there. There are millions of CHL holders, and you've got a number less than a fraction of a single point in the margin of error of incidents (almost half of which are suicides), thank you proving my point.

 

[WackyDan]

Until an individual teacher starts shooting up her class :whiste:

What you fail to comprehend is that a vast number of teachers own firearms NOW and that a percentage of them already have concealed carry permits NOW... and that many of them are indeed ex military...

Nobody is advocating that every teacher be armed but that a small number of them who meet strict requirements can be.

How many teachers/admins are in a school? If only a few had a weapon that blunts the ability for one of these asshats who are already on medication for their ills to go on a rampage. When the press is able to report that instead of 26 dead, there are only a few dead and armed response came immediately from the staff, the grand vision of body count and press coverage begins to fade as an option for these cowards. That is the entire point.

EDIT for clarity: They have firearms now and we don't see news reports of teachers shooting their students.

 

[Pia]

You really don't have a clue. And yes "when people conceal carry there are gun fights and violence".

http://www.vpc.org/ccwkillers.htm

Do they have an agenda, yes.. But facts are facts regardless of whether you agree with them or not.

Where's your logic? Without supporting data, a flat list of crimes committed by CCW holders is completely useless for debunking the assertions VPC apparently thinks they debunk. What do we actually know based on that list? This: a person getting a concealed carry license does not become magically immune to every single bit of criminal behavior. Thanks for the obvious, VPC.

To make a factual argument against CCW based on results, or to evaluate the criminality (or lack of) of CCW holders as a group, all of the cases VPC lists would first have to be evaluated, even superficially, for whether the privileges granted by the CCW license might have been a contributing factor in the event. (Among a handful of case summaries I looked at, plenty of the situations were of the "obviously not" variety; these would have to be culled from the data. CCW license does nothing to help a maniac who drives from their home to a mall with a rifle and shoots the place up, for example.) The remaining incidents would then have to be expressed in rates over time per population. A comparison of those to the population average rate of the same crimes would also be informative.

 

[xj0hnx]

Where's your logic? Without supporting data, a flat list of crimes committed by CCW holders is completely useless for debunking the assertions VPC apparently thinks they debunk. What do we actually know based on that list? This: a person getting a concealed carry license does not become magically immune to every single bit of criminal behavior. Thanks for the obvious, VPC.

To make a factual argument against CCW based on results, or to evaluate the criminality (or lack of) of CCW holders as a group, all of the cases VPC lists would first have to be evaluated, even superficially, for whether the privileges granted by the CCW license might have been a contributing factor in the event. (Among a handful of case summaries I looked at, plenty of the situations were of the "obviously not" variety; these would have to be culled from the data. CCW license does nothing to help a maniac who drives from their home to a mall with a rifle and shoots the place up, for example.) The remaining incidents would then have to be expressed in rates over time per population. A comparison of those to the population average rate of the same crimes would also be informative.

I doubt anyone in jstern01's camp is going to do an actual in-depth study on CHL holder crime rates because it is already a well known fact to the rest of us that CHL holders comprise a negligible percentage of criminal activity. Just about the only thing they can do is post flat numbers and cross their fingers that the person reading it doesn't know that there are millions of CHL holders, with less than 400 crimes, almost half of which are suicides, between them all. If they did they wouldn't be able to say bullshit like "More CHL holders will mean there will be shoot outs in the street, and more people will die!!!", which is proven lie.

 

[corwin]

I doubt anyone in jstern01's camp is going to do an actual in-depth study on CHL holder crime rates because it is already a well known fact to the rest of us that CHL holders comprise a negligible percentage of criminal activity. Just about the only thing they can do is post flat numbers and cross their fingers that the person reading it doesn't know that there are millions of CHL holders, the less than 400 crimes, almost half of which are suicides, between them all. If they did they wouldn't be able to say bullshit like "More CHL holders will mean there will be shoot outs in the street, and more people will die!!!", which is proven lie.

Don't forget that those numbers are from 2007 to present I mean if it was all in one year or something maybe it could mean something...maybe...but really that's all they can come up with over 6 years and 32 states?!?! Pathetic...

 

[cwjerome]

What you fail to comprehend is that a vast number of teachers own firearms NOW and that a percentage of them already have concealed carry permits NOW... and that many of them are indeed ex military...

Nobody is advocating that every teacher be armed but that a small number of them who meet strict requirements can be.

How many teachers/admins are in a school? If only a few had a weapon that blunts the ability for one of these asshats who are already on medication for their ills to go on a rampage. When the press is able to report that instead of 26 dead, there are only a few dead and armed response came immediately from the staff, the grand vision of body count and press coverage begins to fade as an option for these cowards. That is the entire point.

Yes. Whenever a killer is confronted with armed opposition, 9 times out of 10 they kill themselves. Why not decrease this time from 2-8 minutes to 10-30 seconds? Why give them so much time to kill?

 

[Muse]

Should teachers or school admin carry guns?

Yeah, in holsters, and the bad-asses should have one on either hip.

 

[Cerb]

Should teachers or school admin carry guns?

Yeah, in holsters, and the bad-asses should have one on either hip.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/professor-badass

Photoshop time?

 

[Gunslinger08]

I don't think teachers or administrators need be armed. Their job is to teach or manage. Leave the defense to the police on school grounds. If I were a teacher, I wouldn't want the liability that comes with having a gun around a bunch of kids that I don't know well.

I really don't understand why anybody is against having an armed police officer at each school. The schools around here have had one for at least 10 years. The only negative I see is that the district has to fund an extra officer/deputy.

 

[Venix]

You really don't have a clue. And yes "when people conceal carry there are gun fights and violence".



http://www.vpc.org/ccwkillers.htm

Do they have an agenda, yes.. But facts are facts regardless of whether you agree with them or not. Again schools/churches and other public places are not the venue for people to be carrying weapons period.

These are pretty lame "facts." They track any firearm death directly or indirectly caused by a concealed weapons permit holder, even if the death was completely unrelated to having a permit or carrying in public.

They also falsely inflate the statistics by counting licensed security guards as permit holders, listing as "pending" possible cases of self-defense, counting in-home and other accidents where the permit holder didn't even fire the gun, and counting Arizona murderers who don't have permits because Arizona doesn't require a permit to carry concealed. Slimy.


Let's analyze the first few instances from the PDF:

1. Domestic dispute; woman kills her ex-husband.
2. Woman pulls gun during a fist fight.
3. Spree shooter. First murder occurred within his home.
4. Woman killed her husband at home.
5. Idiots "dry fire" guns out truck window.
6. Guy murders his wife at home in Arizona.
7. Spree shooter in Arizona. He doesn't have a permit, but he's listed because "legal gun owners can carry conealed handguns without a permit."
8. Spree shooter in Arizona. Same as 7.
9. Guy pulls a gun during an argument.
10. Apparent self-defense.
11. Argument between guys who knew each other.
12. Security guard.
13. Dispute between next door neighbors.

2 and 9 (and maybe 1 and 11) are the only ones even remotely related to concealed carry. The rest are just unrelated bullshit and lies.