Should The United States Give up control of the Internet?

[chcarnage]

Originally posted by: tss4

Originally posted by: chcarnage

Originally posted by: ntdz
It doesn't matter, the world wide web is just a very small portion of the internet. The internet itself was invented by Americans, and therefore should stay in American hands. I mean, why do they want control? Are we running the internet badly or something? Is there a problem with the internet they can fix that we can't? They just hate us having all the power, thats all.

It doesn't matter? You would be writing this post in freaking Usenet without the CERN!

Some clarification on the DNS Root Server situation: There are 13 Root server systems (map). 12 Root Servers (those in foreign nations also) synchronise themselves with the DNS Root Server of Verizon which could be influenced by the US government. Alternative DNS networks exist but honestly I've no idea if they are of any significance (and they aren't compatible to each other because some introduced their own top level domains).

And neither would you, if it weren't for the US going forward with the development of the internet. If the europeans wanted control they should have built the infrastructure. I doubt they'd freely give up control of technology they put in place either.

I already admitted the dominant role of the US in the creation of today's internet in my first post.

However the question was neither what Europe would or the US will do, but what they should. And I still think they should let it go, based on the argument in my first post.

Originally posted by: Train
Well considering 90% of all spam and hack attempts come from China and Russia,

and 95% of the targets are in the USA....

Not true. The spam is sent through all available channels and while Asia is an important gateway, 75% of the worst spam networks are based in the US and target an American audience.

And what % of web sites are in English? (more specifically, WESTERN English)

I've found no statistic about web sites but ca. one third of the web users speak English as first language.

If your argument was that the US should keep the control over the Internet because other nations rarely use it and primarily for illicit intention, this attempt has failed.

 

[Rainsford]

I don't think ANYONE should have control over the internet, not only does this make "the other guys" vulnerable to the group with control, it creates one target for anyone wishing to hurt the internet. Complaints aside, the control over the internet is pretty non-political right now. Moving the control, especially to a body like the UN, would almost certainly inject politics into a system where they don't belong. As I said, long term I would like to see technologies in place that prevent anyone from exerting control over parts of the internet external to their own network. No one needs to be in control, and the closer we can get to that, the better off the internet will be as a system. In the meantime, I think we are at probably the best place we could be with control of the internet, it's not that I think we're a superior race or something, it's just that so far this seems to be working ok. And it looks like control will be realativly short term anyways.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: sandorski
re: the US invented it, so they should keep it.

That is a silly arguement. If that was the standard, only Britain could make electronic computers, only France(IIRC) could make automobiles, [insert invention and country here] could make those things.

That analogy doesn't work. It would be more like 'only Britain could own that specific electronic computer', which is what you would expect.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: EatSpam
I don't think we should for only one reason. I don't want my first amendment rights overridden by a foreign country who doesn't believe in freedom of speech.

I agree. I don't want the EU with their more limited freedom of speech to influence the Internet.

 

[Zebo]

Hell no America first in everything why dilute our power or economic power. Course I find it ironic by those saying no at the same time love enriching foeigners shopping at White-trash, buying foreign cars and generally hate their american wage earner.

 

[imported_alp]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Czar
o

Originally posted by: Genx87

The World Wide Web was developed at CERN, which in the meantime has 20 European member states.

If memory serves me correct the only thing CERN did was develope DNS and a way publish documents and create HTML pages. The TCP\IP model is what powers the internet and that was developed by the DoD.

and www like he said, www made the internet viable for everyone

It doesn't matter, the world wide web is just a very small portion of the internet. The internet itself was invented by Americans, and therefore should stay in American hands. I mean, why do they want control? Are we running the internet badly or something? Is there a problem with the internet they can fix that we can't? They just hate us having all the power, thats all.

We worry about America forcing its draconian copyright laws on the rest of us, that's all...

 

[imported_tss4]

Originally posted by: chcarnage

Originally posted by: tss4

Originally posted by: chcarnage

Originally posted by: ntdz
It doesn't matter, the world wide web is just a very small portion of the internet. The internet itself was invented by Americans, and therefore should stay in American hands. I mean, why do they want control? Are we running the internet badly or something? Is there a problem with the internet they can fix that we can't? They just hate us having all the power, thats all.

It doesn't matter? You would be writing this post in freaking Usenet without the CERN!

Some clarification on the DNS Root Server situation: There are 13 Root server systems (map). 12 Root Servers (those in foreign nations also) synchronise themselves with the DNS Root Server of Verizon which could be influenced by the US government. Alternative DNS networks exist but honestly I've no idea if they are of any significance (and they aren't compatible to each other because some introduced their own top level domains).

And neither would you, if it weren't for the US going forward with the development of the internet. If the europeans wanted control they should have built the infrastructure. I doubt they'd freely give up control of technology they put in place either.

I already admitted the dominant role of the US in the creation of today's internet in my first post.

However the question was neither what Europe would or the US will do, but what they should. And I still think they should let it go, based on the argument in my first post.

Originally posted by: Train
Well considering 90% of all spam and hack attempts come from China and Russia,

and 95% of the targets are in the USA....

Not true. The spam is sent through all available channels and while Asia is an important gateway, 75% of the worst spam networks are based in the US and target an American audience.

And what % of web sites are in English? (more specifically, WESTERN English)

I've found no statistic about web sites but ca. one third of the web users speak English as first language.

If your argument was that the US should keep the control over the Internet because other nations rarely use it and primarily for illicit intention, this attempt has failed.

But your arguement doesn't really make sense when you apply it fairly across the board. The rest of the world also makes use of much of our satellite communication infrastructure (and they contributed some to the protocols used on them, they make use of much of the fiber we laid (and have contributed to fiber optics research), etc.... Are they entitled partial control of those technology infrastructures too? The point is we built it, we invested the money in the infrastructure. So its ours. The reason, the rest of the world is dependent upon our technology, is that it was more cost effective to make use of our network rather than build their own. They gained a benefit allready. If they wanted control of the actual infrastructure, then should invest the money in building their own.

 

[imported_tss4]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: sandorski
re: the US invented it, so they should keep it.

That is a silly arguement. If that was the standard, only Britain could make electronic computers, only France(IIRC) could make automobiles, [insert invention and country here] could make those things.

That analogy doesn't work. It would be more like 'only Britain could own that specific electronic computer', which is what you would expect.

If the US bought it (aka invested the money in building the infrastructure) then they own it.

 

[imported_tss4]

Originally posted by: alp

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Czar
o

Originally posted by: Genx87

The World Wide Web was developed at CERN, which in the meantime has 20 European member states.

If memory serves me correct the only thing CERN did was develope DNS and a way publish documents and create HTML pages. The TCP\IP model is what powers the internet and that was developed by the DoD.

and www like he said, www made the internet viable for everyone

It doesn't matter, the world wide web is just a very small portion of the internet. The internet itself was invented by Americans, and therefore should stay in American hands. I mean, why do they want control? Are we running the internet badly or something? Is there a problem with the internet they can fix that we can't? They just hate us having all the power, thats all.

We worry about America forcing its draconian copyright laws on the rest of us, that's all...

It would be ashame if you couldn't steal music and movies.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: tss4

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: sandorski
re: the US invented it, so they should keep it.

That is a silly arguement. If that was the standard, only Britain could make electronic computers, only France(IIRC) could make automobiles, [insert invention and country here] could make those things.

That analogy doesn't work. It would be more like 'only Britain could own that specific electronic computer', which is what you would expect.

If the US bought it (aka invested the money in building the infrastructure) then they own it.

and only the US did invest money in building the infastructure of the internet?

 

[imported_alp]

Originally posted by: tss4

Originally posted by: alp

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Czar
o

Originally posted by: Genx87

The World Wide Web was developed at CERN, which in the meantime has 20 European member states.

If memory serves me correct the only thing CERN did was develope DNS and a way publish documents and create HTML pages. The TCP\IP model is what powers the internet and that was developed by the DoD.

and www like he said, www made the internet viable for everyone

It doesn't matter, the world wide web is just a very small portion of the internet. The internet itself was invented by Americans, and therefore should stay in American hands. I mean, why do they want control? Are we running the internet badly or something? Is there a problem with the internet they can fix that we can't? They just hate us having all the power, thats all.

We worry about America forcing its draconian copyright laws on the rest of us, that's all...

It would be ashame if you couldn't steal music and movies.

I am talking about the DMCA, which has basically removed consumers' fair use rights, and excessive government control (does the government really need to ban dvd players which don't work with restrictive copy protection?!

 

[imported_tss4]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: tss4

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: sandorski
re: the US invented it, so they should keep it.

That is a silly arguement. If that was the standard, only Britain could make electronic computers, only France(IIRC) could make automobiles, [insert invention and country here] could make those things.

That analogy doesn't work. It would be more like 'only Britain could own that specific electronic computer', which is what you would expect.

If the US bought it (aka invested the money in building the infrastructure) then they own it.

and only the US did invest money in building the infastructure of the internet?

The part we built, we control. We just have built far more of the infrastructure. That is why we control far more of it than anyone else. Like I said, the rest of the world chose to make use of our infrastructure because it was cheaper than building their own.

 

[imported_tss4]

Originally posted by: alp

Originally posted by: tss4

Originally posted by: alp

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Czar
o

Originally posted by: Genx87

The World Wide Web was developed at CERN, which in the meantime has 20 European member states.

If memory serves me correct the only thing CERN did was develope DNS and a way publish documents and create HTML pages. The TCP\IP model is what powers the internet and that was developed by the DoD.

and www like he said, www made the internet viable for everyone

It doesn't matter, the world wide web is just a very small portion of the internet. The internet itself was invented by Americans, and therefore should stay in American hands. I mean, why do they want control? Are we running the internet badly or something? Is there a problem with the internet they can fix that we can't? They just hate us having all the power, thats all.

We worry about America forcing its draconian copyright laws on the rest of us, that's all...

It would be ashame if you couldn't steal music and movies.

I am talking about the DMCA, which has basically removed consumers' fair use rights, and excessive government control (does the government really need to ban dvd players which don't work with restrictive copy protection?!

They haven't banned them. And you're free to make personal copies of your own movies and music. You just can't give or sell copies of it to others. That is perfectly fair.

 

[Czar]

damn egos, they should never be involved in technological and scientific development :|

 

[Scarpozzi]

We should NOT give up the internet. If anyone else ran it, things would get out of control and 80% of the content would be porn.

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: YoshiSato

Originally posted by: Pepsei
do we live in China?

No but soon we(Americans) will be oppressed more than the Chinese people are if the UN or EU gets control.

haha, what?

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: EatSpam
I don't think we should for only one reason. I don't want my first amendment rights overridden by a foreign country who doesn't believe in freedom of speech.

I agree. I don't want the EU with their more limited freedom of speech to influence the Internet.

What? Where does the idea that europe has limited freedom of speech come from? If anything, we've got mroe freedom of speech than you.

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: Scarpozzi
We should NOT give up the internet. If anyone else ran it, things would get out of control and 80% of the content would be porn.

Most baseless post ever.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Originally posted by: alp

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Czar
o

Originally posted by: Genx87

The World Wide Web was developed at CERN, which in the meantime has 20 European member states.

If memory serves me correct the only thing CERN did was develope DNS and a way publish documents and create HTML pages. The TCP\IP model is what powers the internet and that was developed by the DoD.

and www like he said, www made the internet viable for everyone

It doesn't matter, the world wide web is just a very small portion of the internet. The internet itself was invented by Americans, and therefore should stay in American hands. I mean, why do they want control? Are we running the internet badly or something? Is there a problem with the internet they can fix that we can't? They just hate us having all the power, thats all.

We worry about America forcing its draconian copyright laws on the rest of us, that's all...

I agree... US politics is lousy, and their idea of forcing its regulations down everybody's throat is ridiculous. Good inventions, bad politicians, mmkay?

 

[Forsythe]

What i would want would be a multinationally government funded company, completely free of all governments, take control of it.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Originally posted by: tss4

Originally posted by: alp

Originally posted by: tss4

Originally posted by: alp

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Czar
o

Originally posted by: Genx87

The World Wide Web was developed at CERN, which in the meantime has 20 European member states.

If memory serves me correct the only thing CERN did was develope DNS and a way publish documents and create HTML pages. The TCP\IP model is what powers the internet and that was developed by the DoD.

and www like he said, www made the internet viable for everyone

It doesn't matter, the world wide web is just a very small portion of the internet. The internet itself was invented by Americans, and therefore should stay in American hands. I mean, why do they want control? Are we running the internet badly or something? Is there a problem with the internet they can fix that we can't? They just hate us having all the power, thats all.

We worry about America forcing its draconian copyright laws on the rest of us, that's all...

It would be ashame if you couldn't steal music and movies.

I am talking about the DMCA, which has basically removed consumers' fair use rights, and excessive government control (does the government really need to ban dvd players which don't work with restrictive copy protection?!

They haven't banned them. And you're free to make personal copies of your own movies and music. You just can't give or sell copies of it to others. That is perfectly fair.

really? amazing... so the whole Jon Johansen/DeCSS debacle must've been something we all imagined, since you say it didn't exist. Short memory, my boy!

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Scarpozzi
We should NOT give up the internet. If anyone else ran it, things would get out of control and 80% of the content would be porn.

hahah

 

[imported_tss4]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson

Originally posted by: tss4

Originally posted by: alp

Originally posted by: tss4

Originally posted by: alp

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Czar
o

Originally posted by: Genx87

The World Wide Web was developed at CERN, which in the meantime has 20 European member states.

If memory serves me correct the only thing CERN did was develope DNS and a way publish documents and create HTML pages. The TCP\IP model is what powers the internet and that was developed by the DoD.

and www like he said, www made the internet viable for everyone

It doesn't matter, the world wide web is just a very small portion of the internet. The internet itself was invented by Americans, and therefore should stay in American hands. I mean, why do they want control? Are we running the internet badly or something? Is there a problem with the internet they can fix that we can't? They just hate us having all the power, thats all.

We worry about America forcing its draconian copyright laws on the rest of us, that's all...

It would be ashame if you couldn't steal music and movies.

I am talking about the DMCA, which has basically removed consumers' fair use rights, and excessive government control (does the government really need to ban dvd players which don't work with restrictive copy protection?!

They haven't banned them. And you're free to make personal copies of your own movies and music. You just can't give or sell copies of it to others. That is perfectly fair.

really? amazing... so the whole Jon Johansen/DeCSS debacle must've been something we all imagined, since you say it didn't exist. Short memory, my boy!

Next time read what I said and reply appropriately. I said we currently don't have such restrictions, not that those restrictions were never attempted.

We in the US currently can make copies of movies and music that we buy and we can buy DVD players that don't work with restricitive copy protection. Do you deny this? Where are you getting your facts from? Just because the industry tries to lobby certain legislation doesn't mean its what we have currently. The media industry will always try to push legislation that benefits them. And can you give me any examples of the US cnesoring content on the worl wide web? I'm not talking about your paranoid worries, but real examples of such action taking place where the US cnesors the content other countries can reciece and distribute?

Like I said, if you want control then you invest in it and build the infrastructure next time.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

You are dreaming.

The "lack of restrictions" you speak of is a purely a "lack of enforcement". Kinda like some of the Southern U.S. states where oral sex is forbidden, or the woman can't be on top of the man. The fact is, these laws exist, and unfortunately they don't become null and void because nobody respects them (or a large number of the population, anyway.) They can and will be used against you if "someone" decides so. Sadly, I can still report you to the MPAA for having and using DVDDecrypter, AnyDVD and DVD Shrink... and they CAN, presumably, urge authorities to fine or jail you. 321 Studios, with their DVDxCopy were closed down not too long ago. All the software that allows for the bypass of such copy encryption remains illegal and can be onbly hosted outside U.S. servers. Or how about the Russian guy arrested in the U.S for bypassing the PDF encryptions? How about university professors not being able to publish works which dissect copy encryption procedures? These are not THAT old.

And no, SO FAR there haven't been any attempts by the U.S. authorities to "censor content on the www" per se. But it's more insidious than that. I remember a group of VERY powerful U.S. lawyers trying to COMPLETELY curtail the sale of wine over the internet - all over the world, presumably - because they were worried that underage children in the U.S. might order some wine and have it delivered to their family home, where they could imbibe happily. That was in 1999. A failure, yes, but the danger always remains, and if the U.S. fights to keep control of the Web, it's not for altruistic reasons - with your country's steady decline into religious paranoia, ugly things can be lurking ahead. Fat lot of good will it do you that you can say whatever you want on the internet ("free expression", yes?) - if you can't do anything.

And if the internet is such a free & unregulated place, without danger stemming from the part of the government (ANY government), why did people with more foresight and backbone that anyone on this board create the EFF ?

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: EatSpam
I don't think we should for only one reason. I don't want my first amendment rights overridden by a foreign country who doesn't believe in freedom of speech.

I agree. I don't want the EU with their more limited freedom of speech to influence the Internet.

What? Where does the idea that europe has limited freedom of speech come from? If anything, we've got mroe freedom of speech than you.

Hardly. There are far more restrictions in Europe than in the US in regards to free speech.