Should the US newspapers publish those cartoons about Muhammed?

[UzairH]

Yes, if you are talking about printing the cartoons EXPLICITLY and ONLY to report on them, then it is ok in THAT VACUUM. However, are you forgetting that it is the very nature of those cartoons which cause distress? If you are so eager to see them, google news and google images is your friend. I have seen them, and they are very distasteful. If they were supposed to depict that mvtherfvcker bin laden I would have said hurrah. But they clearly do not. The intent is something entirely different.

Do you know what our Messenger said? He ordered us: never to harm any other human being, never to wage unjust war, never to harm women and children and elderly in battle, always to seek negotiations before war, even to love and respect animals. This is the real message of Islam. As the intelligent Muslims know, this message has been corrupted thanks to the degeneracy of modern islam over the centuries.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

So why should anyone care about offending Muslims, when they constantly offend, and hate, everyone else?

Because they will hate you for eternity once you piss them off. Ask the Jews.

Of course they already hated us and our way of life anyway..... so why should I care??

 

[SpongeBob]

Originally posted by: UzairH
Yes, if you are talking about printing the cartoons EXPLICITLY and ONLY to report on them, then it is ok in THAT VACUUM. However, are you forgetting that it is the very nature of those cartoons which cause distress? If you are so eager to see them, google news and google images is your friend. I have seen them, and they are very distasteful. If they were supposed to depict that mvtherfvcker bin laden I would have said hurrah. But they clearly do not. The intent is something entirely different.

Do you know what our Messenger said? He ordered us: never to harm any other human being, never to wage unjust war, never to harm women and children and elderly in battle, always to seek negotiations before war, even to love and respect animals. This is the real message of Islam. As the intelligent Muslims know, this message has been corrupted thanks to the degeneracy of modern islam over the centuries.

Yes I am talking strictly about the context of reporting them as news. I have seen them, but only because I was shocked at the destruction and violence I was seeing on the news and had to spend the time digging through blogs to see them and find out what the root of all of it was. The point is I shouldn't have had to do that. What about people without internet access or know how on how to see these? Do they not deserve this information? Do they not deserve to know why people are DYING!?

 

[UzairH]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: UzairH
YES YOU HAVE A FRICKIN' RIGHT TO PUBLISH WHATEVER THE HELL YOU WANT!

But there is a difference between a right and a choice. If you want to INTENTIONALLY INSULT Muslims then go ahead.

I don't think the press SHOULD intentionally insult Muslims or anybody else. However, it appears to me that every time 3 or more Muslim males are gathered together in one place, they intentionally insult MY country and the entire Hebrew race, burn some effigies and flags, chant death to me and my family, etc. And of course its no secret that the Arab press is packed full of anti-Semitic and anti-Western crap every damn day, but nobody takes hostages over that. So why should you guys be special? You don't give a damn about OUR feelings or the feeling of ANY non-Muslim (we're all just infidels), so why on earth should we care about yours?

You seem like a reasonable person, so surely you can admit that in the year 2006, it is abso-fvcking-lutely WRONG of your people and/or co-religionists to label everybody who isn't Muslim an "infidel". Or make death threats over a freakin' cartoon. Come on, man. Its barbaric and anachronistic. Its all about HATE and religious, racial, and sexual INTOLERANCE. You can try to cloak that bvllshyt in "religion" if you like, but nobody is fooled by it anymore. There is no excuse or defense, ESPECIALLY religion, which has historically been the cause of more bloodshed, grief, and fanaticism than any other subject.

So why should anyone care about offending Muslims, when they constantly offend, and hate, everyone else?

Buck,

Here we enter the entirely different area of 'relations' between Jews and Muslims. It is a complex discussion, one which I welcome and would love to participate in with you. To begin, let me state I respect you as a human being first, and everything else matters secondarily. Do you agree and reciprocate?

And to answer your question, I have already stated I hate these religious crazies who have become the corrupt, intolerant face of Islam. To repeat what I have said in my previous post: Do you know what our Messenger said? He ordered us: never to harm any other human being, never to wage unjust war, never to harm women and children and elderly in battle, always to seek negotiations before war, even to love and respect animals. This is the real message of Islam. As the intelligent Muslims know, this message has been corrupted thanks to the degeneracy of modern islam over the centuries.

---

SO, care to join me in a discussion? I would love to talk to someone on the other side of the fence.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: UzairH


Do you know what our Messenger said? He ordered us: never to harm any other human being, never to wage unjust war, never to harm women and children and elderly in battle, always to seek negotiations before war, even to love and respect animals. This is the real message of Islam. As the intelligent Muslims know, this message has been corrupted thanks to the degeneracy of modern islam over the centuries.

This honestly makes me feel sadness that your religion has been hijacked by the Middle Easterners who have the power to make your religion look bad.. People see their actions more because they are in the birthplace of Islam..

I remember a great story a guy here in Colorado told me

Right after 9/11 he was driving to the airport and his car got a flat tire
He was driving a nice newer car and wearing a business suit.
He was standing outside the car and preparing to change the tire himself when a white van pulled up and out came three arab men dressed nicely..

They changed the tire for him and aksed to please not think all Muslims or Arabs were like those in the airplanes.. and then they drove away..

This story sort of creates a tear in my eye..

I know the US holds some of the blame for the ME being so fvcked up.. assisting both sides in a war.. for what reason? scary.. very scary..

I think the good muslims could outdo the bad ones by going out of their way to do good works and change the image of Islam..

 

[UzairH]

Originally posted by: SpongeBob

Originally posted by: UzairH
Yes, if you are talking about printing the cartoons EXPLICITLY and ONLY to report on them, then it is ok in THAT VACUUM. However, are you forgetting that it is the very nature of those cartoons which cause distress? If you are so eager to see them, google news and google images is your friend. I have seen them, and they are very distasteful. If they were supposed to depict that mvtherfvcker bin laden I would have said hurrah. But they clearly do not. The intent is something entirely different.

Do you know what our Messenger said? He ordered us: never to harm any other human being, never to wage unjust war, never to harm women and children and elderly in battle, always to seek negotiations before war, even to love and respect animals. This is the real message of Islam. As the intelligent Muslims know, this message has been corrupted thanks to the degeneracy of modern islam over the centuries.

Yes I am talking strictly about the context of reporting them as news. I have seen them, but only because I was shocked at the destruction and violence I was seeing on the news and had to spend the time digging through blogs to see them and find out what the root of all of it was. The point is I shouldn't have had to do that. What about people without internet access or know how on how to see these? Do they not deserve this information? Do they not deserve to know why people are DYING!?

SpongeBob, I know I'm being mean here, but since when did you or the Americans care about the deaths of Muslims? Iraq, Palestine, anyone?

Sorry, had to say that. I await your equally splenatic response .

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

So why should anyone care about offending Muslims, when they constantly offend, and hate, everyone else?

Because they will hate you for eternity once you piss them off. Ask the Jews.

Of course they already hated us and our way of life anyway..... so why should I care??

Right now, there is a true blue,born and raised, all American war vet. , converting to Islam in the U.S.

 

[SpongeBob]

Originally posted by: UzairH

Originally posted by: SpongeBob

Originally posted by: UzairH
Yes, if you are talking about printing the cartoons EXPLICITLY and ONLY to report on them, then it is ok in THAT VACUUM. However, are you forgetting that it is the very nature of those cartoons which cause distress? If you are so eager to see them, google news and google images is your friend. I have seen them, and they are very distasteful. If they were supposed to depict that mvtherfvcker bin laden I would have said hurrah. But they clearly do not. The intent is something entirely different.

Do you know what our Messenger said? He ordered us: never to harm any other human being, never to wage unjust war, never to harm women and children and elderly in battle, always to seek negotiations before war, even to love and respect animals. This is the real message of Islam. As the intelligent Muslims know, this message has been corrupted thanks to the degeneracy of modern islam over the centuries.

Yes I am talking strictly about the context of reporting them as news. I have seen them, but only because I was shocked at the destruction and violence I was seeing on the news and had to spend the time digging through blogs to see them and find out what the root of all of it was. The point is I shouldn't have had to do that. What about people without internet access or know how on how to see these? Do they not deserve this information? Do they not deserve to know why people are DYING!?

SpongeBob, I know I'm being mean here, but since when did you or the Americans care about the deaths of Muslims? Iraq, Palestine, anyone?

Sorry, had to say that. I await your equally splenatic response .

Well as long as you know you are being mean....

I deeply care about the deaths of human beings anywhere when they are not justified by my belief system.

 

[UzairH]

Originally posted by: SpongeBob

Originally posted by: UzairH

Originally posted by: SpongeBob

Originally posted by: UzairH
Yes, if you are talking about printing the cartoons EXPLICITLY and ONLY to report on them, then it is ok in THAT VACUUM. However, are you forgetting that it is the very nature of those cartoons which cause distress? If you are so eager to see them, google news and google images is your friend. I have seen them, and they are very distasteful. If they were supposed to depict that mvtherfvcker bin laden I would have said hurrah. But they clearly do not. The intent is something entirely different.

Do you know what our Messenger said? He ordered us: never to harm any other human being, never to wage unjust war, never to harm women and children and elderly in battle, always to seek negotiations before war, even to love and respect animals. This is the real message of Islam. As the intelligent Muslims know, this message has been corrupted thanks to the degeneracy of modern islam over the centuries.

Yes I am talking strictly about the context of reporting them as news. I have seen them, but only because I was shocked at the destruction and violence I was seeing on the news and had to spend the time digging through blogs to see them and find out what the root of all of it was. The point is I shouldn't have had to do that. What about people without internet access or know how on how to see these? Do they not deserve this information? Do they not deserve to know why people are DYING!?

SpongeBob, I know I'm being mean here, but since when did you or the Americans care about the deaths of Muslims? Iraq, Palestine, anyone?

Sorry, had to say that. I await your equally splenatic response .

Well as long as you know you are being mean....

I deeply care about the deaths of human beings anywhere when they are not justified by my belief system.

Well, that wasn't as bad as I thought it would be

I applaud that you deeply care for people dying anywhere. Do such people include Muslims then? People, say in Iraq? Or Palestine?

I too care about other people, not just my people. Be they Muslims or Christians or Jews or atheists. They were humans. They were God's creation. Like I said before, my fondest wish is for mankind to stop slitting its own throat.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

So why should anyone care about offending Muslims, when they constantly offend, and hate, everyone else?

Because they will hate you for eternity once you piss them off. Ask the Jews.

Of course they already hated us and our way of life anyway..... so why should I care??

Right now, there is a true blue all American war vet. , converting to Islam in the U.S.

So? It's a FREE country. I can show you millions that aren't. Either fact proves nothing, at least not to me.

What does that have to do with my statement?

 

[DaFinn]

Noooooooo, just on the news. At least 2 large publishers of school books in Scandinavia are pulling out childrens school books where there are drawings of Mohammed!!!?!?!?!?!?
This is ridiculous...

 

[SpongeBob]

Originally posted by: UzairH

Well, that wasn't as bad as I thought it would be

I applaud that you deeply care for people dying anywhere. Do such people include Muslims then? People, say in Iraq? Or Palestine?

I too care about other people, not just my people. Be they Muslims or Christians or Jews or atheists. They were humans. They were God's creation. Like I said before, my fondest wish is for mankind to stop slitting its own throat.

Of course! It includes all of mankind. I would love nothing more than to see an end to all the needless destruction of human life. I'm not sure how realistic that is, but I can dream can't I?

 

[UzairH]

Originally posted by: SpongeBob
Of course! It includes all of mankind. I would love nothing more than to see an end to all the needless destruction of human life. I'm not sure how realistic that is, but I can dream can't I?

SpongeBob my man, I wish there were more people like us, and less like the fundos (all sorts, race, religions) and greedies that have destroyed our world.

Peace.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

So why should anyone care about offending Muslims, when they constantly offend, and hate, everyone else?

Because they will hate you for eternity once you piss them off. Ask the Jews.

Of course they already hated us and our way of life anyway..... so why should I care??

Right now, there is a true blue all American war vet. , converting to Islam in the U.S.

So? It's a FREE country. I can show you millions that aren't. Either fact proves nothing, at least not to me.

What does that have to do with my statement?

Well it really looks like your talking about all Muslims, not a small number of them

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

So why should anyone care about offending Muslims, when they constantly offend, and hate, everyone else?

Because they will hate you for eternity once you piss them off. Ask the Jews.

Of course they already hated us and our way of life anyway..... so why should I care??

Right now, there is a true blue all American war vet. , converting to Islam in the U.S.

So? It's a FREE country. I can show you millions that aren't. Either fact proves nothing, at least not to me.

What does that have to do with my statement?

Well it really looks like your talking about all Muslims, not a small number of them

If the shoe fits, wear it.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

If the shoe fits, wear it.

Alrighty

 

[Proletariat]

It has been proven again and again that if you don't stand up to Islamic bullies they do the same things again and again.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: UzairH

Originally posted by: SpongeBob
Of course! It includes all of mankind. I would love nothing more than to see an end to all the needless destruction of human life. I'm not sure how realistic that is, but I can dream can't I?

SpongeBob my man, I wish there were more people like us, and less like the fundos (all sorts, race, religions) and greedies that have destroyed our world.

Peace.

Why don't you tell that to Musharraf?

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: UzairH

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: UzairH
YES YOU HAVE A FRICKIN' RIGHT TO PUBLISH WHATEVER THE HELL YOU WANT!

But there is a difference between a right and a choice. If you want to INTENTIONALLY INSULT Muslims then go ahead.

I don't think the press SHOULD intentionally insult Muslims or anybody else. However, it appears to me that every time 3 or more Muslim males are gathered together in one place, they intentionally insult MY country and the entire Hebrew race, burn some effigies and flags, chant death to me and my family, etc. And of course its no secret that the Arab press is packed full of anti-Semitic and anti-Western crap every damn day, but nobody takes hostages over that. So why should you guys be special? You don't give a damn about OUR feelings or the feeling of ANY non-Muslim (we're all just infidels), so why on earth should we care about yours?

You seem like a reasonable person, so surely you can admit that in the year 2006, it is abso-fvcking-lutely WRONG of your people and/or co-religionists to label everybody who isn't Muslim an "infidel". Or make death threats over a freakin' cartoon. Come on, man. Its barbaric and anachronistic. Its all about HATE and religious, racial, and sexual INTOLERANCE. You can try to cloak that bvllshyt in "religion" if you like, but nobody is fooled by it anymore. There is no excuse or defense, ESPECIALLY religion, which has historically been the cause of more bloodshed, grief, and fanaticism than any other subject.

So why should anyone care about offending Muslims, when they constantly offend, and hate, everyone else?

Buck,

Here we enter the entirely different area of 'relations' between Jews and Muslims. It is a complex discussion, one which I welcome and would love to participate in with you. To begin, let me state I respect you as a human being first, and everything else matters secondarily. Do you agree and reciprocate?

And to answer your question, I have already stated I hate these religious crazies who have become the corrupt, intolerant face of Islam. To repeat what I have said in my previous post: Do you know what our Messenger said? He ordered us: never to harm any other human being, never to wage unjust war, never to harm women and children and elderly in battle, always to seek negotiations before war, even to love and respect animals. This is the real message of Islam. As the intelligent Muslims know, this message has been corrupted thanks to the degeneracy of modern islam over the centuries.

---

SO, care to join me in a discussion? I would love to talk to someone on the other side of the fence.

Wow. Nice post, I'm very impressed. If thats the "real message of Islam", I'll shut my mouth about it, except to offer an apology if I said anything offensive. And yes, I do agree with your first question: human being first, race and religion second! This stuff makes me angry so I have a tendency to sound harsh, but my REAL number one desire, were it up to me, is that we all live in peace and everybody worships as they see fit as long as it doesn't harm others.

With one post on an internet forum, you've actually given me some hope. Why can't you and every other Muslim like you get on camera and shout what you just said here to the entire world? It would be very refreshing, and very well received. I only wish everyone else, non-Muslims included, lived by the "rules" you've just mentioned...

 

[mOeeOm]

Originally posted by: Proletariat
It has been proven again and again that if you don't stand up to Islamic bullies they do the same things again and again.

I'm sure you have conducted your research for many years at a world renowned university, care to post your findings with evidence we can all see?

 

[UzairH]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: UzairH

Originally posted by: SpongeBob
Of course! It includes all of mankind. I would love nothing more than to see an end to all the needless destruction of human life. I'm not sure how realistic that is, but I can dream can't I?

SpongeBob my man, I wish there were more people like us, and less like the fundos (all sorts, race, religions) and greedies that have destroyed our world.

Peace.

Why don't you tell that to Musharraf?

HA! I have a personal thing with Mushie uncle (as we so 'fondly' call him).

I would tell it to Musharraf, and to Bush, Tony, et al. But of course my DUTY lies only with telling Musharraf. For each his own.

 

[UzairH]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: UzairH

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: UzairH
YES YOU HAVE A FRICKIN' RIGHT TO PUBLISH WHATEVER THE HELL YOU WANT!

But there is a difference between a right and a choice. If you want to INTENTIONALLY INSULT Muslims then go ahead.

I don't think the press SHOULD intentionally insult Muslims or anybody else. However, it appears to me that every time 3 or more Muslim males are gathered together in one place, they intentionally insult MY country and the entire Hebrew race, burn some effigies and flags, chant death to me and my family, etc. And of course its no secret that the Arab press is packed full of anti-Semitic and anti-Western crap every damn day, but nobody takes hostages over that. So why should you guys be special? You don't give a damn about OUR feelings or the feeling of ANY non-Muslim (we're all just infidels), so why on earth should we care about yours?

You seem like a reasonable person, so surely you can admit that in the year 2006, it is abso-fvcking-lutely WRONG of your people and/or co-religionists to label everybody who isn't Muslim an "infidel". Or make death threats over a freakin' cartoon. Come on, man. Its barbaric and anachronistic. Its all about HATE and religious, racial, and sexual INTOLERANCE. You can try to cloak that bvllshyt in "religion" if you like, but nobody is fooled by it anymore. There is no excuse or defense, ESPECIALLY religion, which has historically been the cause of more bloodshed, grief, and fanaticism than any other subject.

So why should anyone care about offending Muslims, when they constantly offend, and hate, everyone else?

Buck,

Here we enter the entirely different area of 'relations' between Jews and Muslims. It is a complex discussion, one which I welcome and would love to participate in with you. To begin, let me state I respect you as a human being first, and everything else matters secondarily. Do you agree and reciprocate?

And to answer your question, I have already stated I hate these religious crazies who have become the corrupt, intolerant face of Islam. To repeat what I have said in my previous post: Do you know what our Messenger said? He ordered us: never to harm any other human being, never to wage unjust war, never to harm women and children and elderly in battle, always to seek negotiations before war, even to love and respect animals. This is the real message of Islam. As the intelligent Muslims know, this message has been corrupted thanks to the degeneracy of modern islam over the centuries.

---

SO, care to join me in a discussion? I would love to talk to someone on the other side of the fence.

Wow. Nice post, I'm very impressed. If thats the "real message of Islam", I'll shut my mouth about it, except to offer an apology if I said anything offensive. And yes, I do agree with your first question: human being first, race and religion second! This stuff makes me angry so I have a tendency to sound harsh, but my REAL number one desire, were it up to me, is that we all live in peace and everybody worships as they see fit as long as it doesn't harm others.

With one post on an internet forum, you've actually given me some hope. Why can't you and every other Muslim like you get on camera and shout what you just said here to the entire world? It would be very refreshing, and very well received. I only wish everyone else, non-Muslims included, lived by the "rules" you've just mentioned...

Thanks for the support, my friend Indeed, if only the earth were utopia and everyone was like us (or at least we were the masters of everyone else )

Believe it or not, but the CORE message of Islam has nothing to do with anything other than love and peace. Islam means first recognizing God, then His Messengers (which is why we love, respect and value all Messengers, and are so offended by this situation). Do you know what Muhammad (PBUH) ordered us w.r.t people of other faiths? He told us to live by: "For you your religion, and for me my religion."

As for shouting to the entire world, I wish I could do so. But let me explain two things: why the Muslims are so bitter today, and why we have degenerated.

1. Bitterness: This is simply the same reason why Jews feel sensitive about their identity. Can you deny that Muslims are being hounded and persecuted by the West in several places? I ask you: why punish the Palestinians for something done by Germany in WWII? Can you deny that? I do not deny the holocaust. And I ask you to please do not deny the oppression of Muslims in Palestine.
You ask why the Muslims hate you, why they commit suicide bombings and stuff like that. Well, the answer is NOT because they hate your freedoms and way of life. This is the most unbelievably false and childish attempt at falsehood be Bush, Blair et al, yet amazingly so many accept it. Let it be clear that the Muslims LOVE the western freedom and values of democracy and rights. (All Muslims except the highly degenerate ones, to be precise.) What is hated is our persecution. Let me give the example Pakistan. Pakistan was the USA's PRIMARY ally against the soviets in Afghanistan. After the Cold War was over, and the USA achieved its objectives in Afghanistan, what did the Pakis get? Not freedom, not economic or military or social help. What they got was things they never had before: drugs, kalashnikov culture, mullah culture (Pakistan was quite liberal before the CIA sponsored dictator Zia ruled for 11 years), and several million Afghan refugees. And when the "War on terror" started, again USA bludgoened Pakistan into helping it, with the sure result that Pakistan is suffering from even more terrorism. Who do you think created bin laden? It wasn't the Pakis. It was CIA in their covert war, dumped after the Cold War like a jilted girlfriend to simmer and become their own worst nightmare.

2. Degeneration: It is folly to say that the Muslims are where they are today because of any outside forces. The simple fact is that in pure Islam, there is no concept of an organized clergy. But such a clerical order, called "mullahs', enforced ignorance and obscurantism to maintain their power. This phenomen is at its culmination with the taliban and bin laden.

Is there anything you would like to comment on or argue? What's your side of the story?

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: UzairH

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: UzairH

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: UzairH
YES YOU HAVE A FRICKIN' RIGHT TO PUBLISH WHATEVER THE HELL YOU WANT!

But there is a difference between a right and a choice. If you want to INTENTIONALLY INSULT Muslims then go ahead.

I don't think the press SHOULD intentionally insult Muslims or anybody else. However, it appears to me that every time 3 or more Muslim males are gathered together in one place, they intentionally insult MY country and the entire Hebrew race, burn some effigies and flags, chant death to me and my family, etc. And of course its no secret that the Arab press is packed full of anti-Semitic and anti-Western crap every damn day, but nobody takes hostages over that. So why should you guys be special? You don't give a damn about OUR feelings or the feeling of ANY non-Muslim (we're all just infidels), so why on earth should we care about yours?

You seem like a reasonable person, so surely you can admit that in the year 2006, it is abso-fvcking-lutely WRONG of your people and/or co-religionists to label everybody who isn't Muslim an "infidel". Or make death threats over a freakin' cartoon. Come on, man. Its barbaric and anachronistic. Its all about HATE and religious, racial, and sexual INTOLERANCE. You can try to cloak that bvllshyt in "religion" if you like, but nobody is fooled by it anymore. There is no excuse or defense, ESPECIALLY religion, which has historically been the cause of more bloodshed, grief, and fanaticism than any other subject.

So why should anyone care about offending Muslims, when they constantly offend, and hate, everyone else?

Buck,

Here we enter the entirely different area of 'relations' between Jews and Muslims. It is a complex discussion, one which I welcome and would love to participate in with you. To begin, let me state I respect you as a human being first, and everything else matters secondarily. Do you agree and reciprocate?

And to answer your question, I have already stated I hate these religious crazies who have become the corrupt, intolerant face of Islam. To repeat what I have said in my previous post: Do you know what our Messenger said? He ordered us: never to harm any other human being, never to wage unjust war, never to harm women and children and elderly in battle, always to seek negotiations before war, even to love and respect animals. This is the real message of Islam. As the intelligent Muslims know, this message has been corrupted thanks to the degeneracy of modern islam over the centuries.

---

SO, care to join me in a discussion? I would love to talk to someone on the other side of the fence.

Wow. Nice post, I'm very impressed. If thats the "real message of Islam", I'll shut my mouth about it, except to offer an apology if I said anything offensive. And yes, I do agree with your first question: human being first, race and religion second! This stuff makes me angry so I have a tendency to sound harsh, but my REAL number one desire, were it up to me, is that we all live in peace and everybody worships as they see fit as long as it doesn't harm others.

With one post on an internet forum, you've actually given me some hope. Why can't you and every other Muslim like you get on camera and shout what you just said here to the entire world? It would be very refreshing, and very well received. I only wish everyone else, non-Muslims included, lived by the "rules" you've just mentioned...

Thanks for the support, my friend Indeed, if only the earth were utopia and everyone was like us (or at least we were the masters of everyone else )

Believe it or not, but the CORE message of Islam has nothing to do with anything other than love and peace. Islam means first recognizing God, then His Messengers (which is why we love, respect and value all Messengers, and are so offended by this situation). Do you know what Muhammad (PBUH) ordered us w.r.t people of other faiths? He told us to live by: "For you your religion, and for me my religion."

As for shouting to the entire world, I wish I could do so. But let me explain two things: why the Muslims are so bitter today, and why we have degenerated.

1. Bitterness: This is simply the same reason why Jews feel sensitive about their identity. Can you deny that Muslims are being hounded and persecuted by the West in several places? I ask you: why punish the Palestinians for something done by Germany in WWII? Can you deny that? I do not deny the holocaust. And I ask you to please do not deny the oppression of Muslims in Palestine.
You ask why the Muslims hate you, why they commit suicide bombings and stuff like that. Well, the answer is NOT because they hate your freedoms and way of life. This is the most unbelievably false and childish attempt at falsehood be Bush, Blair et al, yet amazingly so many accept it. Let it be clear that the Muslims LOVE the western freedom and values of democracy and rights. (All Muslims except the highly degenerate ones, to be precise.) What is hated is our persecution. Let me give the example Pakistan. Pakistan was the USA's PRIMARY ally against the soviets in Afghanistan. After the Cold War was over, and the USA achieved its objectives in Afghanistan, what did the Pakis get? Not freedom, not economic or military or social help. What they got was things they never had before: drugs, kalashnikov culture, mullah culture (Pakistan was quite liberal before the CIA sponsored dictator Zia ruled for 11 years), and several million Afghan refugees. And when the "War on terror" started, again USA bludgoened Pakistan into helping it, with the sure result that Pakistan is suffering from even more terrorism. Who do you think created bin laden? It wasn't the Pakis. It was CIA in their covert war, dumped after the Cold War like a jilted girlfriend to simmer and become their own worst nightmare.

2. Degeneration: It is folly to say that the Muslims are where they are today because of any outside forces. The simple fact is that in pure Islam, there is no concept of an organized clergy. But such a clerical order, called "mullahs', enforced ignorance and obscurantism to maintain their power. This phenomen is at its culmination with the taliban and bin laden.

Is there anything you would like to comment on or argue? What's your side of the story?

I agree with many things you say but please explain this to me about the western way of life not being hated. I cut and pasted this from the other thread here about this subject. Please read the articles and watch the videos and let me know what you think.



Actually they are told western lifestyle is evil and incompatible with Islam.

Sayed_Kotb

He considered the American lifestyle as primitive and shocking, incompatible with Islam during the 1950's where most of us here would consider it very conservative and prude.

Here is some video's if you haven't seen them already.

nightmare

Higher quality video's on page 2

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

No, we shouldn't. We of all people have a particularly great amount to lose by doing so, because it would exacerbate the existing view, held by many Arabs, that we are on a crusade against Islam.

I think this whole controversy is pretty stupid, and I can't help but think it was aggravated by the strange restrictions on free speech in Europe. Here in the US, it would clearly be legal to print these cartoons, and so it's not really a free-speech issue for us, it's an issue of whether it is wise and/or appropriate to publish them. I feel it would be neither. Somehow the Europeans seemed to view this as a matter of restricted speech, and I think that's part of what led to their questionable decision to reprint these cartoons.

All of that being said, I think the reaction to the cartoons is outrageous, and far beyond what was warranted. Islam as a faith has a long way to go if they react to such a minor issue with such unbridled rage.

 

[biostud]

Originally posted by: DonVito
No, we shouldn't. We of all people have a particularly great amount to lose by doing so, because it would exacerbate the existing view, held by many Arabs, that we are on a crusade against Islam.

I think this whole controversy is pretty stupid, and I can't help but think it was aggravated by the strange restrictions on free speech in Europe. Here in the US, it would clearly be legal to print these cartoons, and so it's not really a free-speech issue for us, it's an issue of whether it is wise and/or appropriate to publish them. I feel it would be neither. Somehow the Europeans seemed to view this as a matter of restricted speech, and I think that's part of what led to their questionable decision to reprint these cartoons.

All of that being said, I think the reaction to the cartoons is outrageous, and far beyond what was warranted. Islam as a faith has a long way to go if they react to such a minor issue with such unbridled rage.

It started because no cartoonists would do a drawing of Muhammed for a school book about the worlds religions in fear of beeing targets for muslim anger. So Jyllands Posten wanted to test this in their paper. But if they really needed to show drawings they knew would be offensive to get the discussion going is another matter. Personally I hold the Imams that went from Denmark to spread these drawings and other false ones and potraying Denmark in a negative way responsible for the situation getting out of hand. They clearly did not understodd what would happen if they did so.