Should your boss be able to fire an employee for using birth control?

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rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,371
14
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Meh, big data is here...it's just not being used in that way yet. From what I can tell, it's used for insurance fraud type situations, but I'm sure it's used in all sorts of ways.

Some employers do care what people post online.

Read his post again.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,061
10,242
136
No, a company should not be able to fire you for using birth control.

I'm amazed that there's a discussion on this point in this day and age...

No, let's do a U-turn towards feudalism and/or slavery! The peons have rights as human beings and I have to respect that, what poppycock is this?!? Next you'll be saying I can't shoot the court jester when it fails to amuse me!
 
Dec 10, 2005
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It's just plain crazy what some people post. I don't care how pro choice you are, why would anyone post 'Heading out for my abortion now!! Wish me luck everyone!!' Or 'Boy, the doc that gave me my abortion was totes adores!!!' Really???? In this day of allegedly wanting people with 'soft skills' and high emotional intelligence I could see an employer looking down on someone for having that poor of a filter on what they say. If you're going to blast something like that out to the world, it's not a stretch to think an employer would consider you a bit of a risk as far as keeping company information confidential when needed or just say something embarrassing at a very inappropriate time. Don't laugh, I had a former coworker who had a pretty poor filter and was reprimanded by our boss many times. He was a great guy, but his actions did limit his career.
Maybe people wouldn't post it on social media. But maybe there would be protesters outside the clinic that take pictures of those who enter and then post it on web.

Regardless, why would we want our employers to have more power over our personal lives? We don't live in a feudal society. And yes, you could get another job if you don't like the terms of employment, but that assumes everyone has perfect mobility and there are enough other companies not micromanaging their employees' lives. I'd rather not give employers the opportunity to butt into our personal lives so much in the first place rather than letting the 'free market' sort it out.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
136
Maybe people wouldn't post it on social media. But maybe there would be protesters outside the clinic that take pictures of those who enter and then post it on web.

Regardless, why would we want our employers to have more power over our personal lives? We don't live in a feudal society. And yes, you could get another job if you don't like the terms of employment, but that assumes everyone has perfect mobility and there are enough other companies not micromanaging their employees' lives. I'd rather not give employers the opportunity to butt into our personal lives so much in the first place rather than letting the 'free market' sort it out.

I agree with you. There is no such thing as a free market anyway. If there ever was one it's dying gasp would have sounded like the words 'to big to fail', and it's rotting corpse stinks like 'to big to prosecute'.
 

Knowing

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2014
1,522
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I see what you are saying however if someone was really that against the employer I highly doubt they would be a good performing employee. Use the regular way of getting them out, observations and goals need to be met.
You're logic would make it ok to fire someone who wants to form a union in a non-union shop.

They could certainly compile records of offenses and make it nearly impossible for the employee to make a case that they weren't fired for cause, with the damage already done the employee could always pitch a BF about the real reason they were let go. Just like the women who get fired for "being too attractive" when they were really fired for not being able to dress themselves in an appropriate manner for a business environment.

While I believe that everyone has the right to free association, I have a fundamental disagreement with the concept of labor cartels.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
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While I believe that everyone has the right to free association, I have a fundamental disagreement with the concept of labor cartels.
Why? Do you really believe that labor has too much power in comparison to international megacorporations? That labor unions that have millions of dollars to throw around is really that dangerous to corporations that have billions to use to oppose them?
 

Knowing

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2014
1,522
13
46
Why? Do you really believe that labor has too much power in comparison to international megacorporations? That labor unions that have millions of dollars to throw around is really that dangerous to corporations that have billions to use to oppose them?

Because cartels are inherently economically destructive. That being said, their habit of channeling money has not escaped my notice.


 

Knowing

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2014
1,522
13
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Additionally,

Yes, they have clout that exceeds their membership dues.

http://abc7news.com/business/impact-of-west-coast-shutdown-could-top-$20-billion/526029/

http://www.houstonpress.com/news/th...t-over-at-lyondellbasell-and-marathon-6748292
The whole USW strike started on February 1 after Shell, negotiating on behalf of the oil companies, and USW, negotiating on behalf of more than 30,000 oil refinery union members, failed to agree on a contract.

The refinery strikes were (in part) responsible for a $10/bbl change in the price of crude over 3 days in February.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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They could certainly compile records of offenses and make it nearly impossible for the employee to make a case that they weren't fired for cause, with the damage already done the employee could always pitch a BF about the real reason they were let go. Just like the women who get fired for "being too attractive" when they were really fired for not being able to dress themselves in an appropriate manner for a business environment.

While I believe that everyone has the right to free association, I have a fundamental disagreement with the concept of labor cartels.

I hear your point I'm stating that there needs to be reason. I the past I have delivered warnings to two different people about dress code at work. Each time I sent them home to change and the time it took was an unexcused absence. They did not show up to work prepared to work. These are simple coaching matters that do nit require a new law to enforce. Yes it was particularly uncomfortable when it was a woman but it needs to be done.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
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Because cartels are inherently economically destructive. That being said, their habit of channeling money has not escaped my notice.

Understand that the corporations are only funneling enough money to win. I doubt that the National Assn of Realtors could have dropped a lot more money into that without greatly reducing how much they spent on something else, while AT&T could probably drop a billion more dollars over that same ten years without much problem if they really needed to.
The ability for a union to funnel money is not even in the same league of major multinational corporations that they are competing against in the national political arena, and are at a massive disadvantage in the local (state or city) arena.

It is their ability to organize people behind a common cause that is their real power. But that is what democracy is all about, isn't it?
 

Knowing

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2014
1,522
13
46
I hear your point I'm stating that there needs to be reason. I the past I have delivered warnings to two different people about dress code at work. Each time I sent them home to change and the time it took was an unexcused absence. They did not show up to work prepared to work. These are simple coaching matters that do nit require a new law to enforce. Yes it was particularly uncomfortable when it was a woman but it needs to be done.

There absolutely needs to be reason. Make no mistake, I am not advocating for anyone to be fired for their private medical decisions that have nothing to do with their capacity to do work. What I'm against is anyone using their private medical decisions as a reason they shouldn't be fired for cause - or as an excuse to make political hay when they are.

Understand that the corporations are only funneling enough money to win. I doubt that the National Assn of Realtors could have dropped a lot more money into that without greatly reducing how much they spent on something else, while AT&T could probably drop a billion more dollars over that same ten years without much problem if they really needed to.
The ability for a union to funnel money is not even in the same league of major multinational corporations that they are competing against in the national political arena, and are at a massive disadvantage in the local (state or city) arena.

It is their ability to organize people behind a common cause that is their real power. But that is what democracy is all about, isn't it?

Ma Bell was a (destructive) monopoly and appears to be reconsolidating. Goldman Sachs is "a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money." The ability for the unions to funnel money does rival that of major multinationals or they wouldn't be on that list.

I care as much about what democracy is about as I do what fascism is all about - they're both shitty forms of governance.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,596
7,854
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Understand that the corporations are only funneling enough money to win. I doubt that the National Assn of Realtors could have dropped a lot more money into that without greatly reducing how much they spent on something else, while AT&T could probably drop a billion more dollars over that same ten years without much problem if they really needed to.
The ability for a union to funnel money is not even in the same league of major multinational corporations that they are competing against in the national political arena, and are at a massive disadvantage in the local (state or city) arena.

It is their ability to organize people behind a common cause that is their real power. But that is what democracy is all about, isn't it?
Multinational corporations and very rich individuals generally just give their money to other groups to then spend anonymously.

Hooray for election laws that allow unlimited political g̶r̶a̶f̶t̶ speech!

 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,371
14
61
I did, but not sure what your point is. I'm listening.

who knows what the future can bring and what kind of data will be accessible.

His post is not about what is available online now. His post is fear mongering that "big data" will be able to access more things in the future and use them against you.

We still have privacy laws. If you don't want your business to be made public, don't make it public.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,003
18,350
146
His post is not about what is available online now. His post is fear mongering that "big data" will be able to access more things in the future and use them against you.

We still have privacy laws. If you don't want your business to be made public, don't make it public.

Oh yea, those privacy laws are really working out well for us.

To accomplish the task that your suggesting, one would have to go off the grid completely.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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We're not hear yet but the parts are all in place. Have you ever logged into your AT account at work or used your phone with corporate email on it to access AT? How would you feel about having to attend a drug awareness class or lose your job over this post?
Originally Posted by rudeguy:
Yep

I love vaping now. I try new shit all the time. I spend way too much money on it, but its something I really enjoy. If I am stressing out at work, I can kick back, take a few huge rips and feel like a new man. Plus some of the stuff is just cool. My setup right now looks like something out of Star Trek. Chrome blue battery, chrome tank with a glass window. I'm just hoping I don't see anything shiny when I go in there tonight to buy coils.

If you ever have accessed tho account like the above someone can find out stuff about you. Imagine more data and more machines combing thru it.
Its none of works business that you vape and it should stay that way.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,371
14
61
We're not hear yet but the parts are all in place. Have you ever logged into your AT account at work or used your phone with corporate email on it to access AT? How would you feel about having to attend a drug awareness class or lose your job over this post?
Originally Posted by rudeguy:
Yep

I love vaping now. I try new shit all the time. I spend way too much money on it, but its something I really enjoy. If I am stressing out at work, I can kick back, take a few huge rips and feel like a new man. Plus some of the stuff is just cool. My setup right now looks like something out of Star Trek. Chrome blue battery, chrome tank with a glass window. I'm just hoping I don't see anything shiny when I go in there tonight to buy coils.

If you ever have accessed tho account like the above someone can find out stuff about you. Imagine more data and more machines combing thru it.
Its none of works business that you vape and it should stay that way.

?

I vape at work. I'm vaping right now

 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,003
18,350
146
He's associating vaporizing with marijuana, not sure he realizes most it's a tobacco thing too..
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,371
14
61
Really? Is he that dumb?

Because a Google search of my real name turns up about 5 different recovery sites that I'm active on, all listing my sobriety date. Wonder how he feels about that?

VII
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,371
14
61
Now please explain how my vaping would be a bad thing for an employer to know about?
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,951
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Tobacco use, you know all sorts of stuff could be incorrectly assumed from the recovery sites. These are not your employers business.
 
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