Shoveling Etiquette

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Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,910
12,376
126
www.anyf.ca
Yeah, that happens alot in GA.[/QUOTE

Then why even post in a thread when you have no clue.



Another naive post from you. So, if you expect the city to shovel the sidewalk for you, do you expect the city to hire more people to do this in timely fashion? Most cities budget $ millions just for street plowing, let's double/triple that now.

Fortunately, most property owners would rather shovel their sidewalks then deal with higher taxes.

My city does it just fine. It's called snow removal equipment. They have the graders for the streets, the faster pace dump truck style plows for highways, the mini plows for sidewalks, the giant snow blower to clear the snow banks when they get too big, and they even have a small snow blower to do the sidewalks after a blizzard. It's all about being prepared. We don't pay thousands of dollars in taxes for nothing. That money better come back to serve us one way or the other.
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,320
2,928
126
Who really gives two Arbys french dips what and how someone shovels? I don't care and neither should my neighbors.

Unless they do care... which they shouldn't.
 

sjwaste

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2000
8,760
12
81
There is only so much snow renoval capacity you contract for. And when the snow is bigger than that, and you want to get out of the snow in any sort of timely manner, you get help. In that particular case, the Army.

Mel Lastman will never live that one down.

Maybe this is just an American perspective, but we tend not to want to see our uniformed servicemen doing things like this. Yeah, we might call in the guard after an extraordinary event like Katrina, since these guys are trained better than anyone to go into the shit and operate, but shoveling snow?

Kind of a slap in the face in light of all of the hard work and training they go through, isn't it?
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,910
12,376
126
www.anyf.ca
Hey, at one point they even called in the army, 'cuz they weren't doing anything, to shovel the snow. Now thats service my friend.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/1999/01/14/snow990114.html

LOL I always make fun of Toronto for that. :biggrin: That "storm" (if we can even call it that) was a hoot. They were having tropical weather compared to what we were getting, yet they were the ones in total panic. I don't get why people are so scared of snow.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,198
15,785
126
Maybe this is just an American perspective, but we tend not to want to see our uniformed servicemen doing things like this. Yeah, we might call in the guard after an extraordinary event like Katrina, since these guys are trained better than anyone to go into the shit and operate, but shoveling snow?

Kind of a slap in the face in light of all of the hard work and training they go through, isn't it?

I think the military is perfectly suited for this kind of work. Obviously, you are not going to pull the army if there is some sort of war going on. But if they are available, sure, why not?

Think of it as a logistics exercise. Also, it was the second snowstorm that did us in.
 
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Scouzer

Lifer
Jun 3, 2001
10,359
6
0
I should mention I live in a city with services that I'd put up against any other in the US and only 0.86% on my property tax bill. Yeah, I'll go ahead and shovel my own sidewalk for taxes that low. That's a pretty good rate considering the strength of our schools, stable property values, road conditions, access to the metro/proximity to DC. I lived in Jersey, I know all about high tax bills with comparatively little to show for it.

I'd prefer not to socialize every little thing and pay a tax bill that is commensurate. Our main roads were being plowed 24 hrs a day throughout the storm, they hit our residential streets right after the snow stopped. Fair bargain.

Canada's a whole other story. Honestly, what is your effective tax rate? For that, they should shovel your sidewalks.

Income Tax - 15.2%
Property Tax - 0.7%

We shovel our own sidewalks, city does the streets. The city plows sidewalks that aren't in front of peoples houses.
 

sjwaste

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2000
8,760
12
81
Income Tax - 15.2%
Property Tax - 0.7%

We shovel our own sidewalks, city does the streets. The city plows sidewalks that aren't in front of peoples houses.

Don't you also pay a consumption tax or two? Something tells me 15.9% in taxes doesn't pay for the government services offered up there.
 

sjwaste

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2000
8,760
12
81
5% Sales Tax. No provincial sales tax in my province.

Well shit, that's a bargain.

Do you pay for a lot of it through depressed wages (ie. high corporate taxation), or are you seriously paying less than a 25% effective rate?

I mean, I have a fairly sizeable mortgage with lots of interest to deduct, but I still manage to pay a quarter of my income to taxes. That's before factoring in our 4.5% sales tax and whatever hidden taxes I pay on other things. I'd say gas, but I rarely drive.

This thread is now about waffles.. err, taxes?
 

Scouzer

Lifer
Jun 3, 2001
10,359
6
0
Well shit, that's a bargain.

Do you pay for a lot of it through depressed wages (ie. high corporate taxation), or are you seriously paying less than a 25% effective rate?

I mean, I have a fairly sizeable mortgage with lots of interest to deduct, but I still manage to pay a quarter of my income to taxes. That's before factoring in our 4.5% sales tax and whatever hidden taxes I pay on other things. I'd say gas, but I rarely drive.

This thread is now about waffles.. err, taxes?

I don't think so, but it's hard to compare wages across countries. I've always read our corporate taxes are very competitive though.

We can't deduct interest on our mortgages like the US. However your principal residence is exempt from any capital gains. We can also deduct 100% of tuition and books for college
 

sjwaste

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2000
8,760
12
81
I don't think so, but it's hard to compare wages across countries. I've always read our corporate taxes are very competitive though.

We can't deduct interest on our mortgages like the US. However your principal residence is exempt from any capital gains. We can also deduct 100% of tuition and books for college

We don't pay cap gains if we live in the place for 2 out of the last 5 years as a principal residence, I think. There might also be a ceiling on the exemption, but I know we'd be nowhere near it. We can deduct tuition and books and student loan interest, both subject to an income cap. However, there is a lifetime learning credit of up to $2000 (maybe 2500?) per year for qualifying tuition payments up to $12k. Can't double-dip, so usually the credit is our best route.

The mortgage interest deduction makes things interesting (see what I did there?). Our effective tax rates might be right about the same, factoring in the % of my income that was paid to mortgage interest that I was able to deduct.

I'm just surprised at my own ignorance. I was under the impression that most of Canada had very high taxes. Is it only a couple of provinces that are like that?
 

Alone

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2006
7,492
0
0
Most of Canada has moved/is moving towards HST, which is basically 13% sales tax. Yay.
 

Scouzer

Lifer
Jun 3, 2001
10,359
6
0
We don't pay cap gains if we live in the place for 2 out of the last 5 years as a principal residence, I think. There might also be a ceiling on the exemption, but I know we'd be nowhere near it. We can deduct tuition and books and student loan interest, both subject to an income cap. However, there is a lifetime learning credit of up to $2000 (maybe 2500?) per year for qualifying tuition payments up to $12k. Can't double-dip, so usually the credit is our best route.

The mortgage interest deduction makes things interesting (see what I did there?). Our effective tax rates might be right about the same, factoring in the % of my income that was paid to mortgage interest that I was able to deduct.

I'm just surprised at my own ignorance. I was under the impression that most of Canada had very high taxes. Is it only a couple of provinces that are like that?

I probably live in the least taxed province. All other provinces have at least a 5% provincial sales tax on top of the 5% federal sales tax. The income tax is only marginally higher in the highest taxed provinces.

My income tax was also reduced by retirement contributions. But if you take advantage of tax breaks like retirement, you can make your tax rate very very low.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,733
565
126
if i lived in a snow state and they told me i had to shovel the public sidewalk, i'd probably ice it down just for spite. fuck that shit.

Just get a jack hammer and tear up the sidewalk in front of your house. No sidewalk to shovel. Problem solved.

Anyway, around here they just have little blowers that drive around and clean up the sidewalks, usually well after the storm. But I hear its quite common to dump that work on the homeowners elsewhere. I don't understand this. The logic people are using to support it would also apply to roads, but I see anyone suggesting that each individual be in charge of plowing the road in front of their own house.

And that 15 minutes number is crazy. It snows quite a bit around here...that would seriously take an assload of time, every week for a third of the year. It doesn't even make sense, since the little plow that cleans the sidewalk is a much more efficient way to clean everything up. And it probably takes that thing maybe 2 minutes do a pass in front of a house. And of course, everyone here even admits that despite the laws lots of people don't do it or do it at different times resulting in people walking in the street anyway.

Furthermore, I thought the reason to live in the city is so you didn't have to do shit like this. I have to clean all my own shit up out in the country, but the only higher authority I have to answer to for this stuff is my wife.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
streets are pretty easy to plow. you get a couple people and drive around for a bit.

depending on how big or rich your town is, it's not necessarily practical to hire an army of people to run around shoveling out sidewalks all around a sprawling town when homeowners could take 20-30 minutes to do it themselves.

given the choice between shoveling their sidewalks two or three times/year (when they've got to shovel out their walkways and driveways anyways) versus paying increased property taxes to have the town to it for them, most people are probably going to pick up the shovel.

or I guess you could hire a local kid and just pretend like you're paying that money in property taxes?
 

bignateyk

Lifer
Apr 22, 2002
11,288
7
0
I don't get what all the bitching is for. How could it take you any longer than 15 minutes to clear your sidewalk?

Even with 2 feet of snow on the ground it only took me 10 minutes to clear the sidewalk. It took another hour to clear the driveway, but that's the driveway.
 

Gunslinger08

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
13,234
2
81
I don't get what all the bitching is for. How could it take you any longer than 15 minutes to clear your sidewalk?

Even with 2 feet of snow on the ground it only took me 10 minutes to clear the sidewalk. It took another hour to clear the driveway, but that's the driveway.

How little is your sidewalk/driveway? Or are you using a snow blower? There is no way you could shovel 50+ feet of sidewalk under 2-3 feet of snow in 10 minutes. And a 50 foot driveway that's 20 feet wide? Impossible in an hour with a shovel.
 

AMCRambler

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2001
7,701
26
91
I just bought a brand new snow blower in January since the fiancee and I bought a house with a decent size driveway and I've got a bad back. Now I just want a good blizzard so I can try it out and it won't snow here. We had a couple of 2-3 inch dustings before I bought it but other than that these big snow storms keep missing us!
 

DaTT

Garage Moderator
Moderator
Feb 13, 2003
13,295
118
106
I live in Canada, about 30 minutes west of Toronto. The city also plows my sidewalk. I live on a corner lot so i have plenty of sidewalk.

I did buy a big snowblower this year...and have yet to be able to use it
 

RyanPaulShaffer

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2005
3,434
1
0
So glad I don't have to deal with this crap any more. I love complaining to my family that the weather is awful because it was in the 50s.
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
1
0
Maybe this is just an American perspective, but we tend not to want to see our uniformed servicemen doing things like this. Yeah, we might call in the guard after an extraordinary event like Katrina, since these guys are trained better than anyone to go into the shit and operate, but shoveling snow?

Kind of a slap in the face in light of all of the hard work and training they go through, isn't it?


I used to work for a guy who was a Sgt Major in the Army Nat'l Guard. Snow emergencies was one of his favorite Guard activities. He viewed it as a great opportunity to get his guys out in uniform working side-by-side with the civilians in a relatively low pressure/low danger situation. The guardsmen got a warm fuzzy from the greatful little old ladies they dug out, and the civilians got a warm fuzzy from seeing these uniformed armed service people helping in their communities...and nobody even has to get killed.

In my town I think the width requirement is 24". Nobody's going to get out a ruler and measure that...you can get by with 22".
 

BrownShoes

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2008
1,055
0
0
I disliked my neighbors at my old place and whenever it snowed I would shovel the snow into a gigantic pile on the right side of my driveway. When the plows came down the road, all of the snow in my pile would be transferred to my neighbor's driveway and I would laugh my ass off!
 

alevasseur14

Golden Member
Feb 12, 2005
1,760
1
0
I just checked and Minneapolis requires the full side walk be shoveled. I'm a bit of a perfectionist and do it anyways but our neighbors don't. Our sidewalks are 3-4 wide - I've got my work cut out for me tonight...
 

sjwaste

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2000
8,760
12
81
People are still walking in the street here because most of the sidewalks still aren't clear. Mine is. Ironically, the city, the entity that requires me to clear my sidewalk, is just now getting around to clearing its sidewalks next to schools, bridges, and parks.

I saw some dumbass on a bike look at the sidewalk and decide not to go for it. I would've loved to see him take a spill into the snowbanks on either side.
 
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