Shutter Island

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
The movie has a lot of things going for it in the plot line. The problem is people who watch it while doing other things, talking to friends, or not really listening closely to the dialog and following the plot will miss things that are important. This is not a film that you can watch bits and pieces of while distracted and understand.
 

darkxshade

Lifer
Mar 31, 2001
13,749
6
81
How it ends is a lot less confusing than trying to understand how it begins... It's not like he's one of those patients with short term memory loss[Like in Memento] where he forgets everything and starts all over. So how did they trigger the start of this role-playing?

The movie begins on a boat but was he not aware of recent events[that he was a patient] before he got on the boat? If he's always believed he was a marshal the whole time, then surely before the movie begins he is locked up most of the time already so that when they decide to let him out, he should be investigating his fale imprisonment right off the bat but somehow he's on a boat and everything that happend in the short term before he got on is just erased and gone... and all of a sudden he has a fresh background going to an island with a objective? How did they manage that? That's why it was hard to accept the reality of the ending...
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
He recovered momentarily using the role-playing, but he regressed right away and restarted the whole delusion all over again.

I think I figured out the plot to the movie about 10 minutes in.

He didn't regress at the end. Is it better to live as a monster or die as a good man. He wanted a lobotomy.
 

NuclearNed

Raconteur
May 18, 2001
7,845
321
126
Did anyone else think the plot/twist was kind of similar to Identity (the John Cusack movie)? I think in some ways I liked Identity more.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
He didn't regress at the end. Is it better to live as a monster or die as a good man. He wanted a lobotomy.

Yep. Really, there's just no reason his "character", that of the marshal, would just get up from the stairs and walk toward the head doctor, a security guard, and a few orderlies, not say a word, and just walk forward with them.

He knew what was going to happen. He knew he wasn't going to leave, at least... he may have had a chance to leave the facility if he thoroughly admitted to his actions and behavior, and that would mean returning to the real world with the knowledge he killed his wife in reaction to knowing his wife killed their kids. That would be hard to live with day to day. I personally could accept the murder as pure justice, but it'd would still be hard to live with day to day.

He knew after a lobotomy, he would be a zombie, likely not remember a damn thing, and also likely no longer have a single care in the world.

That was his preference, to kill his inner self.
 

Ruptga

Lifer
Aug 3, 2006
10,246
207
106
I thought it was like Total Recall, except 11ty billion times more credible. At the end you don't really know whether he was a patient or a marshal. It sure looks like he was a patient, but that's exactly what it would look like if he were a marshal and the bad guys won.
 

Kev

Lifer
Dec 17, 2001
16,367
4
81
I thought it was like Total Recall, except 11ty billion times more credible. At the end you don't really know whether he was a patient or a marshal. It sure looks like he was a patient, but that's exactly what it would look like if he were a marshal and the bad guys won.

I don't see how you can come away from that movie thinking he was actually a marshall, whereas total recall definitely leaves you guessing at the end.
 

Slick5150

Diamond Member
Nov 10, 2001
8,760
3
81
It is plausible to argue the "he really is a U.S. Marshall and they've brainwashed him at the end" theory. It all works. No other patients ever acknowledge Chuck as being the doctor that works there. Now, obviously that could have been part of their coaching, being told to play along, but there's no evidence that Chuck had ever been to Shutter Island before the beginning of the movie.

I don't think that's what happened. I think, as I stated earlier, that he was a patient, they finally got him to snap out of his fantasy, but he chose to get lobotomized rather than live with it. But I don't dismiss the alternative theory because there isn't anything concrete to disprove it with.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,103
1,550
126
I was disappointed by the "twist" at the end. It was quite predictable actually. I know myself and both friends with me commented maybe halfway through that he was actually a delusional patient the entire time and this was some form of roleplay.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,090
136
It is plausible to argue the "he really is a U.S. Marshall and they've brainwashed him at the end" theory. It all works. No other patients ever acknowledge Chuck as being the doctor that works there. Now, obviously that could have been part of their coaching, being told to play along, but there's no evidence that Chuck had ever been to Shutter Island before the beginning of the movie.

I don't think that's what happened. I think, as I stated earlier, that he was a patient, they finally got him to snap out of his fantasy, but he chose to get lobotomized rather than live with it. But I don't dismiss the alternative theory because there isn't anything concrete to disprove it with.

There are a few subtle hints. For example, the woman who killed her husband with an axe acknowledges Chuck as the doc. When asked by Leo if the Dr ever hurt her or any others she quickly makes a ghastly face as if taken aback/embarrassed by the question and glances over at Chuck. She then says he'd never do that and that he's actually a pretty good guy, and attractive too, she glances at him again. When she glances the second time, the camera cuts to Chuck and he gives a bit of a nervous smile/laugh.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
There are a few subtle hints. For example, the woman who killed her husband with an axe acknowledges Chuck as the doc. When asked by Leo if the Dr ever hurt her or any others she quickly makes a ghastly face as if taken aback/embarrassed by the question and glances over at Chuck. She then says he'd never do that and that he's actually a pretty good guy, and attractive too, she glances at him again. When she glances the second time, the camera cuts to Chuck and he gives a bit of a nervous smile/laugh.

I'm going to have to watch the movie again, for sure.

It seems like, while not revolutionary in terms of the story, it was certainly a finely-crafted movie with expert attention to detail. I think a few replays will show quite a few more underlying bits and pieces that one would miss the first time around.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,090
136
I'm going to have to watch the movie again, for sure.

It seems like, while not revolutionary in terms of the story, it was certainly a finely-crafted movie with expert attention to detail. I think a few replays will show quite a few more underlying bits and pieces that one would miss the first time around.

I enjoyed it quite a bit the second/third time around and I agree with what you've said. I don't think it was anything revolutionary by any means, it was just that for what it was, it was done very well.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,090
136
Please, you know what I meant.


One other thing - what was with the bandage over his eye the whole movie?

I'm assuming it was an injury sustained during the fight with George Noice, or a similar event. Leo's character was called the most dangerous patient in the facility.
 

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
0
Yep. Really, there's just no reason his "character", that of the marshal, would just get up from the stairs and walk toward the head doctor, a security guard, and a few orderlies, not say a word, and just walk forward with them.

He knew what was going to happen. He knew he wasn't going to leave, at least... he may have had a chance to leave the facility if he thoroughly admitted to his actions and behavior, and that would mean returning to the real world with the knowledge he killed his wife in reaction to knowing his wife killed their kids. That would be hard to live with day to day. I personally could accept the murder as pure justice, but it'd would still be hard to live with day to day.

He knew after a lobotomy, he would be a zombie, likely not remember a damn thing, and also likely no longer have a single care in the world.

That was his preference, to kill his inner self.

Last 5 minutes of movie:

"My name is Andrew Laidis, and I murdered my wife in the spring of '52".

next morning w/ the doc (or his sidekick):

"How are you doing this morning?"

"Good and you?"

"can't complain"

Lights cigarette.

"So what's our next move?"

"You tell me"

"Gotta get off this rock Chuck, get back to the mainland, whatever is happening here is bad".

*Doc shakes head.*

"Don't worry partner, they're not going to catch us"

"That's right, we're too smart for them"

"Yea, we are aren't we?"

"This place makes me wonder, which would be worse, to live as a monster, or to die as a good man?"

...

Movie ends.

He regressed in the sense that he chose to "die as a good man", which is his delusion that he did not kill his wife (he subconsciously understood that he would be lobotomized and "die"). He didn't want to live on mentally stable - as a monster.

So yes, by regress, I mean he went back to his delusion of being a good marshal.
 
Last edited:

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Last 5 minutes of movie:

"My name is Andrew Laidis, and I murdered my wife in the spring of '52".

next morning w/ the doc (or his sidekick):

"How are you doing this morning?"

"Good and you?"

"can't complain"

Lights cigarette.

"So what's our next move?"

"You tell me"

"Gotta get off this rock Chuck, get back to the mainland, whatever is happening here is bad".

*Doc shakes head.*

"Don't worry partner, they're not going to catch us"

"That's right, we're too smart for them"

"Yea, we are aren't we?"

"This place makes me wonder, which would be worse, to live as a monster, or to die as a good man?"

...

Movie ends.

He regressed in the sense that he chose to "die as a good man", which is his delusion that he did not kill his wife (he subconsciously understood that he would be lobotomized and "die"). He didn't want to live on mentally stable - as a monster.

So yes, by regress, I mean he went back to his delusion of being a good marshal.

But he knew he was now acting out a character he made, to reach the end of being lobotomized, versus actually being that character.
 

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
0
But he knew he was now acting out a character he made, to reach the end of being lobotomized, versus actually being that character.

He knew that night, and then the next morning he regressed:

"So what's our next move?"

"You tell me"

"Gotta get off this rock Chuck, get back to the mainland, whatever is happening here is bad".

*Doc shakes head.*

"Don't worry partner, they're not going to catch us"

"That's right, we're too smart for them"

"Yea, we are aren't we?"

Chuck is his fantasy sidekick Marshal if you recall.

If "Chuck" hadn't shook his head to the other doctor (indicating that the treatment was a failure), then you might be able to argue the intent of the movie was to show that he is now pretending to regress just to get a lobotomy.

His last line indicates that he is subconsciously forced to regress because he can not stand to live as a sane monster, he would rather be an insane but "good" dead man.
 
Last edited:

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,090
136
He knew that night, and then the next morning he regressed:

No he did not. He was pretending to have regressed so that they would go on with the lobotomy. His line about dying a hero rather than living as a monster implies this fact. He's saying he'd rather die pretending to be the marshal he was, than live knowing what happened to his family. He was not delusion when he was taken away.
 

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
0
No he did not. He was pretending to have regressed so that they would go on with the lobotomy. His line about dying a hero rather than living as a monster implies this fact. He's saying he'd rather die pretending to be the marshal he was, than live knowing what happened to his family. He was not delusion when he was taken away.

Now that's just being illogical.

If he was consciously pretending, he would not have blatantly given himself away by saying "This place makes me wonder, which would be worse, to live as a monster, or to die as a good man?".

The intent of the movie makers were clear.
 

pakotlar

Senior member
Aug 22, 2003
731
187
116
He was crazy. He knew he was crazy. He chose remain crazy instead of confronting reality.

No it was left open. This is your interpretation. In the book it is much more cut and dry: he just relapses back to insanity, just like he did every other time they tried this regression technique. The movie obviously wanted a more hopeful interpretation, and the ending is a clearly calculated attempt at ambiguity.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,090
136
The intent of the movie makers were clear.

Yes it was, and you've got it wrong. He did give himself away, to his personal shrink, you can even see the confusion evident on the Doc's face. I assume it was a way of saying "Yes, you're progression roleplay treatment worked, and thank you, but I have to put myself out of this misery." To use your logic, why would his, in character, just decide to get up and walk away with the orderlies that arrive to escort him? He wouldn't. He came to peace with his decision and carried on.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
He knew that night, and then the next morning he regressed:

"So what's our next move?"

"You tell me"

"Gotta get off this rock Chuck, get back to the mainland, whatever is happening here is bad".

*Doc shakes head.*

"Don't worry partner, they're not going to catch us"

"That's right, we're too smart for them"

"Yea, we are aren't we?"

Chuck is his fantasy sidekick Marshal if you recall.

We're debating the end of a movie, so I'm not getting crazy into this argument, btw.

But re-read what I wrote in my earlier post.
I know he began acting like his previous character. But he fully accepted what was about to happen. If he was entirely his other character, that of the marshal, what would have prompted him to just get up, and walk to the doc, security guy, and orderlies, never saying a word and merely walking away with them.

He did that because he knew that acting the way he was acting (like the marshal) would land him in the lobotomy room.

Thus, subconsciously he was a changed individual, aware of all he had done, and making a move to end it once and for all.

The marshal was never once aware of what he had done, of the fact he was acting, or any of that.

I maintain he didn't "regress" entirely, but instead, was now only acting. He regressed consciously, as if acting out a part and trying to live it, to maintain harmony in his mind, but every other part of his mind was aware. He likely even felt he could no longer act out that role and feel like he had previously.
His character wouldn't have been taken without a fight if he had fully regressed.
 

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
0
Yes it was, and you've got it wrong. He did give himself away, to his personal shrink, you can even see the confusion evident on the Doc's face. I assume it was a way of saying "Yes, you're progression roleplay treatment worked, and thank you, but I have to put myself out of this misery." To use your logic, why would his, in character, just decide to get up and walk away with the orderlies that arrive to escort him? He wouldn't. He came to peace with his decision and carried on.

That wasn't confusion (I'm watching the ending right now), it was simply anguish.

He regressed to a point in his delusion where they are keeping in "hostage" along with his Marshal buddy "Chuck". He is trying to "get off this rock" again, because "There is something seriously wrong with the place".

There is no reason why wouldn't go with his "escorts", as in his delusion, they provide the framework for his "investigation" (until he figures things out in the end).
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |