Shutter Island

[TheVrolok]

That wasn't confusion (I'm watching the ending right now), it was simply anguish.

He regressed to a point in his delusion where they are keeping in "hostage" along with his Marshal buddy "Chuck". He is trying to "get off this rock" again, because "There is something seriously wrong with the place".

There is no reason why wouldn't go with his "escorts", as in his delusion, they provide the framework for his "investigation" (until he figures things out in the end).

Quite simply, I believe your interpretation to be wrong, and I believe most viewers of the movie agree with me. Hell, just read the rest of the thread.

 

[pakotlar]

No he did not. He was pretending to have regressed so that they would go on with the lobotomy. His line about dying a hero rather than living as a monster implies this fact. He's saying he'd rather die pretending to be the marshal he was, than live knowing what happened to his family. He was not delusion when he was taken away.

Again, this is obviously Scorsese's desired interpretation, but the movie intentionally makes the ending ambiguous to follow cannon. The book (which sucked btw, movie was better) was very clear that he reverted to his Teddy Daniels persona: it would take a very optimistic outlook to see otherwise, difficult because the narrator's voice reverted to Teddy Daniel's. Since the movie takes a third person perspective, it is allowed to mess with the narration enough to insert this possibility that he is going out a hero.

It's a good movie, but if it weren't tied to the book it could have been so much more interesting. I would have loved to see the "wake-up" moment be Teddy in the cell, in a deranged state, much like we saw George Noice in the movie, seeing the cell bars and realized he had hallucinated his escape, and being for a brief moment lucid, bruised and dirty, tries to take his own life with a rare shard of glass, stored away for his next break in delusion, holding it, with tears running onto his arms, scratching away the caked blood and dirt where they land, as his right hand trembles, carving a longitudinal arc across his left forearm. Or have him wake up, mid-breakout during the hurricane, not knowing why he's running, escaping with the other prisoners, and let their very real delusions guide his realizations.

As it was, going to the light house and finding nothing was super anti-climactic. It wouldn't have been so bad if it weren't for the realization that none of his actions had ever mattered, a point driven home when Teddy shot the good Dr. with the squirt gun. The movie would have carried so much more weight if he had killed someone during the regression, or maybe escaped to the light house with the fake wife (his nurse) and impregnated her, or carried out a lobotomy in some kind of sick role-reversal when he realized that she was an agent. Is the core movie intact without this? Of course. Lending real-world impact to his actions would have made the movie dirty, and would have made it less tight, but it would have been much better imo.

 

[sandorski]

Dude was Acting! He Pretended to be Crazy and Sane!!!

 

[MJinZ]

We're debating the end of a movie, so I'm not getting crazy into this argument, btw.

But re-read what I wrote in my earlier post.
I know he began acting like his previous character. But he fully accepted what was about to happen. If he was entirely his other character, that of the marshal, what would have prompted him to just get up, and walk to the doc, security guy, and orderlies, never saying a word and merely walking away with them.

He did that because he knew that acting the way he was acting (like the marshal) would land him in the lobotomy room.

Thus, subconsciously he was a changed individual, aware of all he had done, and making a move to end it once and for all.

The marshal was never once aware of what he had done, of the fact he was acting, or any of that.

I maintain he didn't "regress" entirely, but instead, was now only acting. He regressed consciously, as if acting out a part and trying to live it, to maintain harmony in his mind, but every other part of his mind was aware. He likely even felt he could no longer act out that role and feel like he had previously.
His character wouldn't have been taken without a fight if he had fully regressed.

The problem with this theory is that it is not logical in the big picture:

1) If he is consciously lying to get a lobotomy, he would not give blatant hints as to his sanity. If they got wind of his sanity, then they would not lobotomize him, as the treatment would be deemed a success and now, they would simply try to treat his guilt.

2) The scene would not incorporate hints of failed treatment to the audience, like the small headshake from the doctor (Chuck) to the other doctor. Remember, the entire premise of the movie involves the apparent protagonist to be in the dark the whole time - while everyone else is clear headed. To reverse expectations to the audience at the last moment in the movie is like changing the evil big bad guy suddenly to Jesus.

His subconscious wants the lobotomy, that is fairly certain based on his last remark, and exactly because of that, his subconscious has regressed his conscious mind back to a delusion.

 

[Slick5150]

There are a few subtle hints. For example, the woman who killed her husband with an axe acknowledges Chuck as the doc. When asked by Leo if the Dr ever hurt her or any others she quickly makes a ghastly face as if taken aback/embarrassed by the question and glances over at Chuck. She then says he'd never do that and that he's actually a pretty good guy, and attractive too, she glances at him again. When she glances the second time, the camera cuts to Chuck and he gives a bit of a nervous smile/laugh.

Right, but that could have been coached. He clearly felt others were being coached, so maybe she was too, just not in the way he thought at the time.

Again, the ending is obviously open for interpretation in several ways. My interpretation is that he was a patient and knew what he was doing at the end, but I don't discount the plausibility of the idea that he was in fact a marshall when he got to the island and was brainwashed. Both are possibilities given the information we have at by the end.

 

[MJinZ]

Quite simply, I believe your interpretation to be wrong, and I believe most viewers of the movie agree with me. Hell, just read the rest of the thread.

If you want to look at a logical breakdown, it's quite simple:

Argument For Conscious Sanity (lying):

1) Remark about dying as a good man

2) Walking towards the doctors

For Conscious Regression:

1) His conversation with "Chuck"

2) His remark about dying as a good man

3) "Chuck"'s interaction with the other doctors

Just think about what makes more sense in the context of the story telling.

1) The whole reason why he is insane is because he can not deal with the reality of the situation. His subconscious creates a "good man" to act out his delusions. His subconscious however, is well aware of just who he really is (remember all the flashbacks and dreams?)

2) If he is now sane, that means he has come to terms with the monster that he really is, and that his subconscious has shed his conscious delusion.

The possibility of sanity itself contradicts his last statement about "living as a monster or dying as a good man".

In other words, if his subconscious can now reconcile the monster that he is enough to shed his delusion, then he can not "die as a good man". If he was sane, he would "die" knowing he is a monster. Only by maintaining his delusion can he "die as a good man".

 

[Ns1]

blah blah blah, don't care anymore.

 

[moshquerade]

So i just spent 2 hours watching this and all i have to say is what the fuck? can somebody please explain to me what the fuck happen in this film? i so confused.

More here:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=329482&highlight=shutter+island

 

[Mucho]

No Country for Old Men, The Hangover and Shutter Island are my three favorite movies in the last 5 years.

 

[ahenkel]

So this a M Night Shyamalan picture. Without the shyamalan

 

[Regs]

"Good defense mechanisms" actually gave it away for me.

 

[MarkXIX]

Regardless of all the other discussion, the scene where he realizes his wife killed his kids was gut wrenching. Maybe its because I have three kids and could see myself doing what he did if my wife killed them all, but it twisted me up inside and filled me with both sadness and rage at the same time.

Fortunately I was at work, watching it in the background on my third monitor, or I might have cried like a bitch at that scene.

Oh, and I don't know why, but this video and song just seem to fit this thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I-SbwCHJ80

 

[Wingznut]

I saw this movie last night... And I really really like and appreciate it.

Sure, I suspected "the twist" early on... There were certainly enough clues along the way, that it seemed like Scorsese wasn't even really trying to hide it.

But who cares? It seems to me that so many people who didn't like it, are only looking to be tricked at the end. Big twists so rarely ever work, it wouldn't bother me if I never saw another attempt.

Shutter Island was beautifully shot, incredibly well acted, and wonderfully written and edited. Just brilliantly put together all around.

And how about Ruffalo? This guy is quickly becoming one of my favorite actors.

 

[fire400]

Obviously Leo D. is the highlight of the film as the main attraction, for the most part. Anyway...

"I realize I didn't have her help." -former US Marshal

"Your crime(s) are terrible." -head doctor

 

[Kev]

epic bump

 

[TheVrolok]

epic bump

That was a necro with authority.

 

[Kroze]

He was the patient in that hospital from the get-go.

- Before he went insane, he was a real US Marshall.

- His wife have bipolar disorder and killed the 3 kids one day.

- He came home and saw what happened, he lost his mind and killed the wife.

- He went completely insane from then.

- The psychologist tried everything to help him but nothing works. Their final effort was to let him live out his fantasy and hopefully it would fix him, if it doesn't work, they would have to conduct brain surgery which wipe his memories clean.

- At the end of the movie, the psychologist's plan actually worked. He was completely normal and knew what has happened (wife killed kids, he killed wife) But instead, he played dumb and pretend that he's still insane.

Why? Because if you listened to his last statement when he asked the doctor "Would you live a good man, or die as a monster?"

He is implying that he would rather get brain surgery and wipe his memories clean, therefore he can live the rest of his life knowing nothing happened. Rather than living the remainder of his life knowing that horrible truth.

 

[IcePickFreak]

Just got done watching this a bit ago. I figured out in the first 5 minutes that Bruce Willis was a ghost.

 

[moshquerade]

Just got done watching this a bit ago. I figured out in the first 5 minutes that Bruce Willis was a ghost.

 

[fire400]

"...Nazi experiments?" -Head doctor

 

[sandorski]

Just got done watching this a bit ago. I figured out in the first 5 minutes that Bruce Willis was a ghost.

Yup, after watching SI I figured out in 2 minutes that Vader was Luke's father.

 

[mesthead21]

Yup, after watching SI I figured out in 2 minutes that Vader was Luke's father.

Holy shit Vader is Luke's father??? :hmm:

 

[Squisher]

Bruce Willis was really dead all along.