Shutter Island

[moshquerade]

What GlacierFreeze said. By the end, the viewer is allowed to see that all the talk of "Ghosts" and experimentation was part of the delusion Leo used to protect himself from the truth of his circumstances.

There was a lot of delusion and reality mixed in. I guess it confused me there a few times.
Still, I don't think the ending was crystal clear.

 

[GlacierFreeze]

There was a lot of delusion and reality mixed in. I guess it confused me there a few times.
Still, I don't think the ending was crystal clear.

That's understandable. When I left the theater I was thinking similar to how you were/are. I thought about it on the way home and finally came to the conclusion that I posted (ie: he was crazy the whole time, realized what he had done that caused him to go crazy, chose lobotomy). The movie makes you think it's complex and open to interpretation like some movies are, but after really thinking about it, it seems all kinda laid out there for once.

 

[TheVrolok]

There was a lot of delusion and reality mixed in. I guess it confused me there a few times.
Still, I don't think the ending was crystal clear.

I suppose my issue with that train of thought is that the movie makes absolutely no effort to show the institution/staff as the victors in any way. There is no shot of Kingsley/Ruffalo, no music, no ending dialog, etc. that would even imply that Leo was duped. The only closing moments are Leo's quote, and his willing walk to surgery - which, to me, stated pretty clearly that he knew what he was doing. To better understand you're interpretation, how do explain his symbolic dreams of his wife (always involving water, the gunshot wound, etc.)? Or his recollection of the events surrounding his supposed children/wife's deaths? That plot (as seen by Leo) explained the children away as belonging to the female patient, why would suddenly internalize and fabricate false memories? Due to the suggestion from Kingsley?

 

[moshquerade]

That's understandable. When I left the theater I was thinking similar to how you were/are. I thought about it on the way home and finally came to the conclusion that I posted (ie: he was crazy the whole time, realized what he had done that caused him to go crazy, chose lobotomy).

I'm sure I leaned that way because I was pulling for him and wanted him to be sane and get out of there.

 

[darkxshade]

The whole purpose of the movie imo was to put the viewer in a position to decipher truth from reality. One person might find more reasons why he's sane and others can find reasons why he wasn't. And all of the reasons are ambigious at best and in the end, we're just all caught in one big circle jerk.

 

[KeithTalent]

Great movie! I interpreted it as he pretended to revert back in order to get the lobotomy as he could not deal with what had happened after he had temporarily snapped out of it (powerful stuff in the flashback to the incident by the way, very well done). Dicaprio giving that line Mosh mentioned above is what sealed it for me, plus the disppointment in Ruffalo's face when Dicaprio reverts back is quite evident and, in my opinion, removes the possibility that they were trying to make/keep him insane.

I'll be watching this again once it comes out on Blu as I do want to see it with what I know after already having been through it once.

KT

 

[moshquerade]

sidenote: I think they did a bang up job on George Noyce's face. It looked believably well beaten up.

 

[GlacierFreeze]

The whole purpose of the movie imo was to put the viewer in a position to decipher truth from reality. One person might find more reasons why he's sane and others can find reasons why he wasn't. And all of the reasons are ambigious at best and in the end, we're just all caught in one big circle jerk.

I kinda have to disagree here. Many movies are like that but this one seems to actually do enough things to let you know exactly what all happened and at least pretty much what is about to happen when the credits roll. That's my take. Sounds like V & KT took it the same way.

 

[TheVrolok]

I kinda have to disagree here. Many movies are like that but this one seems to actually do enough things to let you know exactly what all happened and at least pretty much what is about to happen when the credits roll. That's my take. Sounds like V & KT took it the same way.

Yeah, I thought it was neatly tied up at the end. However, half the fun of the movies is being able to interpret things in different ways, whether "right" or "wrong." While I think that Mosh, and some of the others may be interpreting it "wrong," it's still food for thought and something to think about. I'll probably pick this up when it's out on BRD for another good watch just to see what I can pick out. As a side note, if you really want a movie that's mentally draining.. just watch Aronofsky's The Fountain. I was exhausted by the end, but still really enjoyed it.

 

[darkxshade]

I kinda have to disagree here. Many movies are like that but this one seems to actually do enough things to let you know exactly what all happened and at least pretty much what is about to happen when the credits roll. That's my take. Sounds like V & KT took it the same way.

Well yes, the end of the movie was pretty heavily focused on why he was insane and I ended up leaning towards that argument too but then when thinking of the entirety of events, a lot of things doesn't make sense if he's insane. Supposedly Ruffalo's character of pretending to be his partner was so that he can stay by his side to protect him yet he allowed him to climb down a side of a mountain. Or when he attacked one of the inmates, he chose to help one of the orderlys carry the guy away leaving Dicaprio to wander alone. The whole thing was supposedly to get him to snap out of his senses but they seemed willing to go way too far to do it, to the point of unbelievability.

 

[moshquerade]

Yeah, I thought it was neatly tied up at the end. However, half the fun of the movies is being able to interpret things in different ways, whether "right" or "wrong." While I think that Mosh, and some of the others may be interpreting it "wrong," it's still food for thought and something to think about. I'll probably pick this up when it's out on BRD for another good watch just to see what I can pick out. As a side note, if you really want a movie that's mentally draining.. just watch Aronofsky's The Fountain. I was exhausted by the end, but still really enjoyed it.

I'll probably pass on that one.. I like movies that challenge you to figure them out, but not to the point that they're draining. It would take the enjoyment out of it for me.

 

[TheVrolok]

I'll probably pass on that one.. I like movies that challenge you to figure them out, but not to the point that they're draining. It would take the enjoyment out of it for me.

It was definitely trying. But visually/artistically it's a beautiful film.

 

[KeithTalent]

sidenote: I think they did a bang up job on George Noyce's face. It looked believably well beaten up.

Jackie Earle Haley has been amazing in all 3 films I have seen him in (this, Little Children, and Watchmen). Not a bad comeback for a guy that did not act for like 20 years or so since the Bad News Bears. :awe:

KT

 

[moshquerade]

Jackie Earle Haley has been amazing in all 3 films I have seen him in (this, Little Children, and Watchmen). Not a bad comeback for a guy that did not act for like 20 years or so since the Bad News Bears. :awe:

KT

I read some where that he is playing Freddy Krueger in the remake of A Nightmare on Elm Street.

 

[TheVrolok]

I read some where that he is playing Freddy Krueger in the remake of A Nightmare on Elm Street.

Methinks he'd be a fantastic Krueger. Would be cool, hope it's true.

 

[GlacierFreeze]

Well yes, the end of the movie was pretty heavily focused on why he was insane and I ended up leaning towards that argument too but then when thinking of the entirety of events, a lot of things doesn't make sense if he's insane. Supposedly Ruffalo's character of pretending to be his partner was so that he can stay by his side to protect him yet he allowed him to climb down a side of a mountain. Or when he attacked one of the inmates, he chose to help one of the orderlys carry the guy away leaving Dicaprio to wander alone. The whole thing was supposedly to get him to snap out of his senses but they seemed willing to go way too far to do it, to the point of unbelievability.

Totally agree and see your point about them letting him go as far as they did to the point of unbelievability. I think they did let it go as far as letting him do whatever the hell he wanted, because they were willing to basically do whatever it takes in hopes that he would snap out of it. They wanted to give him ample opportunity to snap out of it so they could release him, because keeping him there and lobotomy were last resorts. It really didn't work, but the combination of them letting it go that far and telling him about it all did allow him to snap out of it and realize what he had done (murders). And I'm not sure if he actually did climb down the mountain at all, he could have easily imagined that part, since he did imagined that he found the escaped lady, who turned out to be a made up person.

 

[KeithTalent]

I read some where that he is playing Freddy Krueger in the remake of A Nightmare on Elm Street.

Yep, it comes out at the end of April. I actually re-watched the original a few months ago and it does not hold up at all (seeing Johnny Depp in what I think was his first film was kind of funny though), so it was ripe for a remake. Haley should be great as Krueger.

KT

 

[moshquerade]

Totally agree and see your point about them letting him go as far as they did to the point of unbelievability. I think they did let it go as far as letting him do whatever the hell he wanted, because they were willing to basically do whatever it takes in hopes that he would snap out of it. They wanted to give him ample opportunity to snap out of it so they could release him, because keeping him there and lobotomy were last resorts. It really didn't work, but the combination of them letting it go that far and telling him about it all did allow him to snap out of it and realize what he had done (murders). And I'm not sure if he actually did climb down the mountain at all, he could have easily imagined that part, since he did imagined that he found the escaped lady, who turned out to be a made up person.

murders? you mean he murdered his wife, but what other murders? do you mean the murders of the nazis in the death camp? i don't even know if that really happened...

 

[GlacierFreeze]

murders? you mean he murdered his wife, but what other murders? do you mean the murders of the nazis in the death camp? i don't even know if that really happened...

Well I could be misremembering this part, it showed that his wife killed the kids... but it almost seems at one point that showed that he actually killed his kids too. I know he killed his wife, but maybe also his kids. I could be wrong about his kids though. I'm sure V could help me remember.

 

[gimmewhitecastles]

murders? you mean he murdered his wife, but what other murders? do you mean the murders of the nazis in the death camp? i don't even know if that really happened...

The execution of the nazi's were actual memories of his. These multiple traumatic experiences including the murder of his wife after she drowned their children, led to his insanity in the first place. And he actually was a detective before going bonkers. This is all affirmed by Ben Kingsley's character.

 

[moshquerade]

Well I could be misremembering this part, it showed that his wife killed the kids... but it almost seems at one point that showed that he actually killed his kids too. I know he killed his wife, but maybe also his kids. I could be wrong about his kids though. I'm sure V could help me remember.

I am most positive he did not drown his kids. It never showed or implied that.

 

[yowolabi]

I am most positive he did not drown his kids. It never showed or implied that.

Nope. But he did feel responsible for the drownings, since he knew his wife was crazy and did nothing about to help her.

 

[moshquerade]

Nope. But he did feel responsible for the drownings, since he knew his wife was crazy and did nothing about to help her.

Yes, I gathered that. He mentioned she had said she didn't feel right even before she drown the kids and he brushed it off.

 

[ViviTheMage]

SPOILERS BELOW:




Finally saw it.

For those of you that did... what is your opinion, was he actually insane or were they trying to talk him into insanity?

I love the last line, "is it better to be a good man and die or a monster and live?"

And it leads me to believe he wasn't insane, but knew they were going to lobotomize him any way. He wasn't going to allow that to happen and was going to force death instead.


Either way, I agree DiCaprio is a talented actor, and made the movie awesome.

Yup, this sumed up the movie for me ... awesome last line. I think Leo is pretty good actor.

 

[bommy261]

If my crazy wife drowned my three kids i'd be pretty F'd up.. you don't ever recover for something like that.. lobotomy FTW!!!! the movie was awesome, DiCaprio is an amazing actor.