Shuttle AS45GTR advice needed

[Sunny129]

ok, in AnandTech's review of this board, it said that they were unable to find an option for locking the AGP and PCI buses at 66MHz and 33MHz respectively. and as far as i know, the only SiS 648 board on the market so far that has an AGP/PCI bus lock is the ABit SR7-8X. however, i was reading a review on the Shuttle AS45GTR at OCworkbench, and they have documented pictures of the bois in the reivew. now nothing is said about there being an AGP/PCI bus lock, but in the background of a few pictures, you can see a section in the bios that looks like this:

******CLOCK*******
CPU : DRAM Clock Ratio
CPU Clock
DRAM Frequency
ZClock/AGP/PCI Clock
******************

here's a link...look at the bottom picture for the best view

the fourth option down...does that just mean that the AGP and PCI buses are not independent of the FSB?

also, the SiS648/AS45GTR review at HotHardware claims that FSB ranges from 100MHz-200MHz in 1MHz increments, while both AnandTech and OCworkbench could only adjust the FSB up to 165MHz. has there been a bios revision since the AnandTech and COworkbench reviews that allows FSB to reach 200MHz now?

 

[First]

Originally posted by: Sunny129
has there been a bios revision since the AnandTech and COworkbench reviews that allows FSB to reach 200MHz now?

Yeah, Shuttle probably released a new BIOS for the AS45GTR since I reviewed it about 3 weeks ago. That might be why you're seeing 200MHz instead of 165MHz as the limit for overclocking the AS45GTR in certain reviews. The same logic applies to the AGP/PCI lock options.

 

[Sunny129]

how can i find out if their latest bios revision (if that's indeed what happened since then) included a change in FSB selection range and possibly added an AGP/PCI bus lock? i went to the Shuttle official website and they have nothing on the bios for the AS45GTR. in fact, they don't have anything on the AS45GTR other than a link to a .pdf spec sheet. its not even listed as a current product, even though it was the first SiS 648 board to hit the market. is there anywhere else i might find the info i'm looking for?

and also, such mixed reviews make my decision so hard. this is a possible mobo for me, since i have my eye on the SiS 648 chipset, and the features on this board a very nice. but unlike AnandTech, ExtremeTech found the AS45GTR unstable unless memory was set to its most modest settings, and it had to be PC2700 or lower at that. AnandTech seemed to have no stability problems with PC2700 even at the most aggressive memory settings...i've always trusted the reviews here at AnandTech, but it makes the decision so hard...

 

[First]

Originally posted by: Sunny129
how can i find out if their latest bios revision (if that's indeed what happened since then) included a change in FSB selection range and possibly added an AGP/PCI bus lock? i went to the Shuttle official website and they have nothing on the bios for the AS45GTR. in fact, they don't have anything on the AS45GTR other than a link to a .pdf spec sheet. its not even listed as a current product, even though it was the first SiS 648 board to hit the market. is there anywhere else i might find the info i'm looking for?

and also, such mixed reviews make my decision so hard. this is a possible mobo for me, since i have my eye on the SiS 648 chipset, and the features on this board a very nice. but unlike AnandTech, ExtremeTech found the AS45GTR unstable unless memory was set to its most modest settings, and it had to be PC2700 or lower at that. AnandTech seemed to have no stability problems with PC2700 even at the most aggressive memory settings...i've always trusted the reviews here at AnandTech, but it makes the decision so hard...

Well ExtremeTech probably didn't use the same PC2700 RAM I did, so that's one possibility as to why they had issues with this memory type using the AS45GTR.

Personally, I'd stay away from this board. I didn't mention it in my review, but the AS45GTR overclocked poorly, I think worse than the ABIT SR7-8X. I'd wait for ASUS P4S8X (SiS 648) before you decide on a SiS 648-based board.

 

[Sunny129]

yeah, of all SiS 648 boards out thus far, the P4S8X is the one i like the best. i have had great experience with ASUS in the past, with both stability and overclockability. on top of that, the P4S8X has implemented all the SiS 648 features i want, with the exception of an AGP/PCI bus lock (OCworkbench has already reviewed this board and mentioned nothing about such a bus lock...unlike their AS45GTR review, there aren't pictures of the bios, so i can't even speculate as to whether or not there is an AGP/PCI bus lock). also, i do believe that the P4S8X only has one SATA connector, as opposed to the AS45GTR's two SATA connectors, but i suppose sacrificing one connector in return for better stability and overclockability is well worth it. i would also prefer the HighPoint RAID controller over the Promise one. well anyways, i can't wait to find out what you think of the P4S8X

 

[wingtel]

Yes,I saw the review and they say there is no agp/pci lock
:|. I guess a bios update is needed.

 

[Sunny129]

i was wondering where in the review you noticed that they specifically mentioned the lack of an AGP/PCI bus lock. for a long time it was only half a review waiting to be completed. well i guess they just completed it over the last few days or something. if only ASUS guaranteed the addition of an AGP/PCI bus lock and some higher CPU frequencies in their next bios revision for the P4S8X...

how can we find out when a bios revision for the P4S8X is released and what specific revisions are made?

 

[wingtel]

Yes,you thought wright they have updated the review.go check OCWorkbench again,and read the conclusion carefully.I was so hoping to buy this mob this mob but now wondering whether to buy abit SR7-8X instead.:|

 

[fxer]

Does anybody know when this board will be available for purchase? I know the as45gt is available, but not the as45gtr model yet. In addition, there appears to be numerous changes to this board compared to the revision that all the big names reviewed. Perhaps there will be an updated review once the retail board is released? The one shuttle provided to hardware reviewers should have been held back for another month or two

Also the Asus P4S8X board can't handle more than 6 devices (can't use both IDE/Serial ATA RAID at the same time) so it doesn't seem to be a very good option for those full tower cases. But the shuttle can handle 10 drives at once, wowie, it's like a server motherboard for a discount price!

As for overclocking, i would assume some of that can be upgraded with a bios revision, but even the amount of overclocking you can do on the board that was shipped to reviewers is enough for all but the most hardcore, beyond what is provided you need water cooling or something much more industrial, i'm not prepared to jepordize my hardware that much

Thanks for all the great reviews Evan Leib!

 

[KingNine]

Yeah, Shuttle probably released a new BIOS for the AS45GTR since I reviewed it about 3 weeks ago. That might be why you're seeing 200MHz instead of 165MHz as the limit for overclocking the AS45GTR in certain reviews. The same logic applies to the AGP/PCI lock options.

How do we find out if these bios changes affected the board? Would it fare better now with the updated bios that allows better FSB stepping and AGP/PCI Locking?

 

[Sunny129]

How do we find out if these bios changes affected the board? Would it fare better now with the updated bios that allows better FSB stepping and AGP/PCI Locking?

well you'll probably have to find a review of the board done after the BIOS revision. and you'll have to find it at another hardware site, b/c typically a 2nd review of the same board won't show up here at AnandTech just b/c of a BIOS revision. the board would have to undergo such major changes that it could almost be considered a different board for AnandTech to review it again. so if you can find a review of the board somewhere else using the latest BIOS revision, you could compare the benchmarking results with those here at AnandTech before the BIOS was revised to see how the new BIOS affects the board. i would imagine the board wouldnt fare much better for the following reasons:

1) it has been shown by several hardware reviewers by now that, of the five SiS 648 boards that have been released thus far, none are rock solid past 145MHz - 150MHz fsb, so a general OCing limit has been established for this chipset (at least until a number of other SiS 648 baords are released to prove the theory wrong), and it tops out well below the 165MHz fsb limit of the original BIOS. the new BIOS adds fsb frequencies up to 200MHz in 1MHz increments. this does nothing for the overclockability of the board if it couldn't even reach the 165MHz maximum fsb of the original BIOS.

2) an AGP/PCI bus lock is of little use if the fsb can't be raised high enough to run the AGP and PCI buses out of spec. at 145MHz fsb, the AGP and PCI buses are at 73MHz and 36MHz respectively. at 150MHz fsb, the AGP and PCI buses are at 75MHz and 38MHz respectively. of course there is no doubt in my mind that holding the AGP and PCI buses in-spec at 66MHz and 33MHz respectively will increase system stability while trying to raise the fsb, but raising the fsb to 145MHz doesn't run the AGP and PCI buses too far out of spec. then again, maybe raising the fsb to 150MHz runs the AGP and PCI buses far enough out of spec to make an AGP/PCI bus lock feature very desirable.

so in conclusion, the increase in selectable fsb frequencies does nothing for the SiS 648 boards, and the AGP/PCI bus lock may not be of any use if the fsb isn't raised high enough to run the AGP and PCI buses out of spec, but it can never hurt to have this feature just incase one wants to raise the fsb as high as 145MHz or 150MHz (and of course it really comes in handy for those who have a chance of getting their fsb all the way up to 166MHz or higher).

 

[DBVanDyke]

You can purchase the Suttle AS45GTR from www.MWave.com. I've been checking their site daily and it just was added last night (09-18-02). I placed my order and with next day shipping (I have been waiting a LONG time for this board), so I should get mine by this Friday. MWave is only asking $121.00 for it, I think that is a steal.

 

[fxer]

I ordered one from mwave too DBVanDyke, we should make a thread or something for people who bought/are using this board. If you are ever on IRC msg up fxer and we can talk shop, to see if everything is runnin smooth

 

[DBVanDyke]

Lots of BIOS and driver files for the AS45GTR are now available on the Shuttle FTP website at: Shuttle FTP site

Note that the files there for the Manual are miss named and do not work. The large file is actually a version of Acrobat Reader and the other .EXE file... who knows what that is supposed to be.

 

[DBVanDyke]

UPDATE: I checked this morning, (09-20-02), and they have the correct file for the User Manual now. So, you can read all about the AS45GTR - Released - version.