Shuttle vs Aspire X-QPack

[NoToRiOuS1]

should i go for the shuttle with either the nforce 4 or radeon xpress 200
both of which cost 300-350

or

should i just go for the aspire x-qpack($80) + mobo(~80-90) either a foxcon or jetway mobo

the only thing is that the aspire x-qpack is a bit on the big side when comapred to the shuttle.


anyone have any ides/suggestions regarding this?

specs of the future build:
athlon 64 3700+ san diego(already bought)
gig ram pc 3200 (reccomend if you know of any good ones...i was thinking PDP Patriot series)
x800xl
zalman cnps7000b (if i decide to go with the aspire case)
dvd burner nec 3520 or 3540
36gb raptor(already bought)
160gb ide maxtor(already bought)
possibly a sound card(if i deem it necessary...though i doubt it is since the onboard sound should be plenty as all i do with it is play games and listen to music w/ my z-5500)

if you have any other thoughts or suggestions, then please let me know.

 

[Jassi]

How big of a factor is your budget? I would personally go for the Aspire because I like its design and AT just gave it a great review.

 

[Megamixman]

I believe that PSU is passive PFC, because the pictures show a switch to change the voltage. The Shuttle PSU's are active and that is why they are so damn efficient. The only 2 problems I could see are that the Aspire might have problems with dual cores and that it is bigger than a Shuttle. In the end the decision is upgradeability. The SN25P is guaranteed to be able to use dual core since people are already doing just that. On the other hand the Aspire can upgrade to later motherboards, giving it long term upgradeability.

 

[FreshFish]

Anybody know the size diff. between the newer SN25P Shuttle (the nforce 4 one) and the x-qpack? Everyone keeps saying the x-qpack is bigger than shuttles are, but isn't the SN25P bigger than most shuttles too?

As for my vote...I fell in love with Shuttle after builing one for my gf. It was just so simple to assemble and everything just worked plus it's cute and she likes that

 

[NoToRiOuS1]

Aspire X-Qpack Dimensions: 9" x 10.2" x 14" ---> 1285.2
Shuttle SN25P Dimensions: 12.2" x 7.8" x 7.2" --> 685.152

All in all my biggest problem with the Aspire is the fact that is is twice as big. I am not running short of space at my place or anything so I suppose I dont need the smallest thing out there but still, volume-wise the aspire is almost twice as big as the shuttle. I'm sure the aspire could run x800xl + 3700 san diego + raptor + ide HD with no problem with its 420 watt power supply(i hope). I guess I like the simplicity of putting together the shuttle but I dont know if I'm willing to pay about a hundred dollars more just for that luxury.

How big of a factor is your budget? I would personally go for the Aspire because I like its design and AT just gave it a great review.

I would like to stay under 300 if I am building my own with the Aspire and a mobo(which should be no prob) and MAX is 400 if I go with a Shuttle. Though if you think about it, a case, PS, mobo costs around 170-180 w/ tax(thats the aspire case and a nf4 mobo), yet shuttle charges 380 for something similar.

I believe that PSU is passive PFC, because the pictures show a switch to change the voltage. The Shuttle PSU's are active and that is why they are so damn efficient. The only 2 problems I could see are that the Aspire might have problems with dual cores and that it is bigger than a Shuttle. In the end the decision is upgradeability. The SN25P is guaranteed to be able to use dual core since people are already doing just that. On the other hand the Aspire can upgrade to later motherboards, giving it long term upgradeability.

Why would the Aspire case have a prob with dual core? The shuttles dont specifically say they are compatible with A64 X2 but you said they still work so I'm assuming that should also be the case with the Foxconn mATX mobo(for the aspire case)? What do you think.

 

[Jassi]

I thought the only thing required was a bios update for the X2's to work. So if Foxconn releases an update, you are set in that department as well.

 

[NoToRiOuS1]

Originally posted by: Jassi
I thought the only thing required was a bios update for the X2's to work. So if Foxconn releases an update, you are set in that department as well.

Thats what I thought too and thats why I was a bit thrown off by what Megamixman said. I might've just misunderstood what he was trying to convey though. I guess I just need to check foxconn, jetway, and msi website to see if they have the updates for the x2...but not like thats important to me right now as i am going to be running a 3700.

lol why o why couldn't the aspire be just a tad bit smaller.

 

[FreshFish]

I think the comment about upgradeability was meant to say that the Shuttle has a definite upgrade path, though it may not be very long, while the Aspire can be upgraded as long as mATX boards are in production.

I actually just ordered the SN25P and I can definitly understand why it would be hard to bite the bullet and pay $350-$400...

Have you looked into any of the other SFF boxes out there? I haven't much, but I know there are other choices.

 

[NoToRiOuS1]

Yeah I have looked at a few. It sucks since intel with its damn monopoly has forced manufacturers to make SO many intel SFF and there are so few amd SFF. in any case, biostar is another possibility but that too costs 370. then there is the FUGLY SFF from soltek that look all retro...makes me wanna hurl everytime i even think about them, so those are out of question, and then there's shuttle. they have three choices for socket 939. there is one w/ nf3 chipset, another with nf4, and yet another with radeon express 200.
i like the Shuttle ST20G5, since it has the radeon express chipset w/ dvi and vga output and w/ an ATI card you can have quad monitor output. doubt ill ever use that feature but its nice to see. it also has 16x pci-express and 1 pci slot. but still....350 bucks is a bit high just for a case,mobo,ps.
lol i guess from looking at my own words, i see that im leaning more towards the aspire case due to its somewhat longer upgradability path and cheaper price.
i wonder if there are other mATX cases out there that are smaller than the aspire.

 

[paperfist]

The thing I like about the Aspire case is it is still small yet offers room for actual expansion. I plan to build one for gaming and if the need ever arises for using an Ageia Phys-X card or if I want to snag Gigabyte's iRAM card I'll have room for those. I won?t in a Shuttle. I would like to use a sound card so that's a hitch unless someone comes out with a PCI-E 1x card soon.

I?m also toying with the idea of using one of those 5 1/4 water cooling setups and I?ll be able to use that too (as long as the blocks fits ) along with an optical drive.

I also want to run a AMD X2 and I've decided to use the Foxconn board after having read about all the trouble HardOCP had with their Shuttle SFF based on ATi's MB. I emailed Foxconn about their support for X2 on the mATX boards, but haven't gotten anything back yet.

 

[NoToRiOuS1]

you're totaly right about that. lol i think you've got me convinced at this point. i think im just going to go for the aspire case and the foxcon mobo. that was one KEY KEY thing that was holding me from getting a shuttle...the ability to put in more than one upgrade..for example besides the video card, there is only one 1x pci-express or pci slot....so if iwant a tv tuner, then i cant get a sound card or the PPU(if i decide to). but with the foxconn mobo it has 1x pci-e, 2 pci, and 16x pci-e. perfect! i was thinking of going with the radeon xpress 200 chipset but yea...i think after seeing so many problems with it(i read it on a few other websites as well that the ATI chipset isn't mature enough just yet while the nf4 chipset has been around for a few months now and has had plenty of time to mature.
as for X2 support on the foxconn, i would be very much surprised if they didn't have the bios update for it. everyone is rushing to have that out. but yea i guess its always a good idea to find out. as for me, ill be running a 3700+ which will hopefully OC to about 2.5-2.6 so im not too worried about that right now. ill wait for dual core until AMD brings out socket M2 when dual cores have matured and more prog take advantage of it. nonetheless, with all the things you just mentioned above...you are going to have one KICKASS machine paperfist, specially if you can put one of those water cooling setup in it. in any case, thank you for helping me make up my mind. now i guess the only thing i really have to worry about is WHICH nf4 mobo do i want to go for. on newegg i only see the foxconn as a good choice but i wonder which mATX mobo thats nf4 has the best onboard sound. anyone know?

 

[Megamixman]

Well what I meant was that the Shuttle SN25P has been guaranteed to be able to use Dual core which is very important to me. Although the mATX boards should be able to handle dual core, Foxconn has not released a bios update for just that. In other words there is the possibility, but it is not guaranteed yet.

The power supply thing is more of a self pet-peeve. I like efficient PSU's. Why, I don't know, but everything else in my house is efficient as hell, and my parents have drilled that into my head since day 1. Active PFC is a lot more efficient then passive, that?s why the shuttle PSU's can handle so much with a lower wattage rating. On the other hand 420W is a good amount of power and should be able to handle dual cores fine. I guess I am also a slight worry wart.

Paperfist, if you do get a reply from Foxconn on X2 support PM plz. The next problem is most of the nf4 mATX boards don?t have very good OC'ing options in the bios. Meh, guess you cant have everything. I wish there were more NF4 mATX boards out there.

 

[NoToRiOuS1]

Now I see what you were trying to say earlier Megamixman with the dual core support. As for the power supply, I am moving somehwere else soon where I have to be fairly power conscious so an active PFC power supply would be a good thing to have but at the same time, I dont know if giving up upgradibility(of having 2 pci, 1x pci-e, & 16x pci-e) of mATX just for the sake of a better PS is the way to go for me. But as they say, to each his own.

Paperfist, like Megamixman said, if you do get a reply, if possible, please let me know as well since my choices for mATX board are down to Foxconn (NF4) or either MSI or Jetway with the
ATI chipset. However, I'd much rather prefer to get the NF4 since its much more stable. So if you could let me know if/when you get an answer from Foxconn, I'd appreciate it!

 

[fishstickz]

I have a microATX mobo with ATI Radeon Xpress 200 Chipset, in an Aspire X-Qpack. I think its a solid performer, I have had no problems with it except being disappointed in the intergrated graphics. I have since moved on to a real GPU so this is no longer the problem.

I have heard some things about flakiness present in the PSU of the X-Qpack. I have had no problems so far, but I have read of peoples' dying (usually from trying to run too much with just 20A on the 12V+ rail). The dual cores might have a heavy power requirement, so that is something to keep on the horizon too.

I even thought about that Foxconn mobo before I built it, and I don't know if you care or not, but I thought that mobo was too ugly in that yellow/green color to be in a case with 3 windows. A lame concept, I know, but thats what swung me to the MSI. I also needed 3 PCI slots (soundcard, tv tuner, modem).

Edit: Grammar.

 

[Aldoria]

The Aspire X-Qpack sounds great, at least from several other reviews and even from AnAndTech as well. Though, I'm a little worried about ATi's chipset and their stability as well as compatibility with various hardware / drivers as opposed to the fourth generation nForce chips which has been fine tuned over and over again (though still not perfect hence problems with nForce IDE drivers still). Also, the Aspire X-Qpack is getting on the larger size of things so it's a personal preference as well. I have recently built a shuttle (SN25P) and I like it thus far. Here are the specs and I've had no issues with power (uptime while doing gaming, etc. has been 4 days and it's not 7 days old yet ).

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=918795

Ald

 

[paperfist]

Yes, I'll let you guys know if I hear anything from Foxconn about X2 support I just emailed their sales dept as tech support hasn't gotten back to me yet. If they don't respond I'll just do it the old fashion way and call heh.

If it doesn't or they don't plan to support X2 then I'm SOL There really isn't any other options in the mATX motherboard field as far as nForce4/S939 goes as I can tell...

 

[NoToRiOuS1]

Aldoria...your system is just...WOW...lol thats all i can say to that....just....WOW.
as for the power supply of the aspire case...would anyone be able to venture a guess as to wether or not the PS would be able to put up with the following system
athlon 64 3700+ san diego
1gb (not sure if i want 1 dimm or 2x512) pc 3200
36gb raptor
160gb ide maxtor
dvd burner
x800xl
Zalman CNPS7000 Copper(figured id go for the same HS system as AT's review...unless someone can reccomend a better one that fits inside this case.

Aldoria, you mentioned something with the IDE drivers..do you mean that the boards have a problem running ide drives or is just a problem when trying run raid or something?

When comparing the two chipsets i saw that both chipsets have their ups and downs. nf4 has a problem with the hardware firewall and conflicts with firewall progs, and i guess the ide drivers like aldoria said though i dont know much about those. and the radeons have a pretty bad rep..actually its much worse than the nf4.

now i feel im stuck between ati and nf4 chipsets...leaning towards the nf4 but still not sure. i think i might just go for it and get the nf4. and i guess i dont mind the color of the mobo that much, as nobody besides me will really be looking at the case, and even then, ill probably be too busy playing a game or doing work to be paying too much attention to the case or its innards.

 

[NoToRiOuS1]

Originally posted by: paperfist
Yes, I'll let you guys know if I hear anything from Foxconn about X2 support I just emailed their sales dept as tech support hasn't gotten back to me yet. If they don't respond I'll just do it the old fashion way and call heh.

If it doesn't or they don't plan to support X2 then I'm SOL There really isn't any other options in the mATX motherboard field as far as nForce4/S939 goes as I can tell...

heck id call them up right now if i could find their darn phone number on their website. but then again im not searching for it all that vigorously
i think im gonna wait until i can get this information. i dont think ill be getting dual core until socket M2 comes out but who knows...if i change my mind, it'd be pretty important to have the bios update for X2 compatibility.

 

[FreshFish]

Hey Aldoria, I am just curious if you ever ran that mega stress test that the guy on the other forum asked you to do? I am interested in the results as well. Thanks

 

[Aldoria]

Hiya Faboloso,

Concerning the nForce IDE drivers, some people are getting BSOD (Machine_Exception) I believe was the error. Basically, if you ever decide to go with the nForce4, make sure to avoid installing the IDE SW Driver. I've personally experienced this problem as well and after uninstalling it after the first couple of hours of messing around with my initial WinXP setup, I never recieved the error again The default WinXP IDE drivers works just fine.

And to FreshFish, I haven't done that crazy test that user has suggested lol. But, I've done something pretty close as I mentioned in the post above it but I've gone a step further. Since I can't exactly defrag my maxtor because they are.. well, pretty empty right now so it wouldn't "strain" them. Another test I have performed is having 6 torrents going (each torrent consist of anywhere from 10 - 100 files, so roughly 400-600 files open) downloading to the Raptor. I have one of the maxtor recieving transfer from my second computer. The third maxtor was left alone. I then installed World of Warcraft to get my DVD-RW to spin up as well and it was stable throughout the long install which took quite awhile. I think for your general use, the power on the SFF is not a problem at all. Oh yea... this is also with all the background apps (Norton Anti-Virus, Nvidia Firewall, Firefox with lots of tabs, Norton Ghost, etc.).

Ald

 

[NoToRiOuS1]

thanks for the heads up regarding the ide drivers aldoria.
i was surfing through a bunch of different forums and in a diff thread on AT i found out that a gigabyte nf4 matx mobo is coming out soon. i believe the model number is GA-K8NMF-9. It looks pretty darn good and almost exactly what i'm looking for oh and it say it DOES support X2 so i guess the bios on the mobo has already been updated which is nice to see. i guess is a heads up for you too paperfist since i know you're looking for a NF4 mATX mobo w/ X2 supported bios. hope this helps! the mobo was suppose to come out in the middle of last month but its not out yet, but from what i read through doing a little googling...it should be out in a week or two.

edit:
link to thread about gigabyte mobo in the mobo forum

 

[paperfist]

Well figures that sales would get back to me before tech support

"The NF4K8MC does support X2 with the latest BIOS.

We cannot discuss product development activities, if any.

-Ed"

The last part is in reference to me asking him about future mATX nForce boards from Foxconn...

-

faboloso,

I don't want to wait for the M2 My 2500+/9800Pro is starting to get long in the tooth and since I do a lot of encoding/photoshop/mapmaking stuff and usually all at once I'm going to go ahead and snag an X2 even if I go broke heh.

Oh and thanks for the heads up on the Gigabyte board. I may wait for that and AMDs new lower end X2 due out Aug 1st.

 

[Megamixman]

Lol, its all good. I love my SN25P and im still saving up for an X2. I might just wait for the 3800+ X2, since they all seem to OC nicely. Aldoria's system is a perfect example of how powerful Shuttle PSU's are. They are amazingly effecient. I think it would take atleast a 450W ATX PSU to equal that. Shuttle also has demonstrated an SLI version of the SN25P which has 2 680GT's going with a FX-55. That is a lot of stress on the 12V rails, and if that isn't enough proof then idk what is.

 

[NoToRiOuS1]

Originally posted by: paperfist

faboloso,

I don't want to wait for the M2 My 2500+/9800Pro is starting to get long in the tooth and since I do a lot of encoding/photoshop/mapmaking stuff and usually all at once I'm going to go ahead and snag an X2 even if I go broke heh.

Oh and thanks for the heads up on the Gigabyte board. I may wait for that and AMDs new lower end X2 due out Aug 1st.

lol hey man dont knock the 9800pro. thats a classic. lol i use to own that until just a few days ago when i sold my system. but yea i know what you mean paperfist, with the types of things that you said you'll be doing, the X2 is def the way to go for you. for a guy like me who does mostly gaming on his computer and not much of a photoshop/encoding typa guy, i can wait it out.

Lol, its all good. I love my SN25P and im still saving up for an X2. I might just wait for the 3800+ X2, since they all seem to OC nicely. Aldoria's system is a perfect example of how powerful Shuttle PSU's are. They are amazingly effecient. I think it would take atleast a 450W ATX PSU to equal that. Shuttle also has demonstrated an SLI version of the SN25P which has 2 680GT's going with a FX-55. That is a lot of stress on the 12V rails, and if that isn't enough proof then idk what is.

yea you're right about the efficiency. but im hoping this 420 watt power supply in the aspire case will be pleny for the 3700, raptor, x800xl. i doubt i should have any problems. though i bet id probably have trouble running SLI w/ 6800s or 7800s with an FX series with that power supply. shuttle is def good, i give you that.

 

[R3MF]

i prefer the Silverstone SG01 to the Aspire Q-pack personally.