SickBeast's Fuel Economy Guide

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Uhtrinity

Platinum Member
Dec 21, 2003
2,259
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7. Put your windows up and close your sunroof if it's not too hot out and you don't need the fresh air. Having the windows down creates drag and makes your car less aerodynamic.

I have issues with this below highway speeds as I see no difference at speeds below ~55mph. At speeds lower than this wind resistance is pretty low. Now that doesn't mean the sunroof is open all the way, but with about a 1" gap at the back, and front windows down from partial to all the way. With windows down and sunroof up I can still pull 75mpg @ 65mph. That number will go as high as 80 mpg with the roof down and windows up.
 

Uhtrinity

Platinum Member
Dec 21, 2003
2,259
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Originally posted by: jhu
Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb

You are advising people to do something that is illegal in several states.

California -
21710. The driver of a motor vehicle when traveling on down grade
upon any highway shall not coast with the gears of such vehicle in
neutral.

In Great Britain, coasting in neutral or with your foot on the clutch, is illegal. If prosecuted, the driver can face a fine and points on their licence.

It is dangerous and regarded as being "Not in full control of the motor vehicle".

While coasting in neutral is technically illegal in some states, going over the posted speed limit is technically illegal in all states. Same with jaywalking in most jurisdictions. Yet most people view speeding and jaywalking as okay. Speeding, coasting in neutral, jaywalking - it's all about the same with regards to how much risk you're willing to take and depending on your particular situation.

With regard to fuel consumption coasting in gear vs. in neutral, I see this debate crop up all the time in other car forums. The general rule of thumb is (assuming the driver is trying to maintain a certain speed):

1) if the car can't maintain speed when coasting in gear, then coasting in neutral will use less fuel overall despite coasting in gear using no fuel.
2) if the car can maintain speed when coasting in gear, then coasting in gear will use less fuel than coasting in neutral.

With the exception of a hill this is used mostly when coasting to a light. In that case coasting in gear will universally be better, unless you actually shut off the engine (not recommended).
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,534
911
126
Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
Originally posted by: jhu
Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb

You are advising people to do something that is illegal in several states.

California -
21710. The driver of a motor vehicle when traveling on down grade
upon any highway shall not coast with the gears of such vehicle in
neutral.

In Great Britain, coasting in neutral or with your foot on the clutch, is illegal. If prosecuted, the driver can face a fine and points on their licence.

It is dangerous and regarded as being "Not in full control of the motor vehicle".

While coasting in neutral is technically illegal in some states, going over the posted speed limit is technically illegal in all states. Same with jaywalking in most jurisdictions. Yet most people view speeding and jaywalking as okay. Speeding, coasting in neutral, jaywalking - it's all about the same with regards to how much risk you're willing to take and depending on your particular situation.

With regard to fuel consumption coasting in gear vs. in neutral, I see this debate crop up all the time in other car forums. The general rule of thumb is (assuming the driver is trying to maintain a certain speed):

It is not "technically illegal" it is illegal, it's just the chances of getting caught are less and the penalties aren't too harsh, but I get what you are saying...

However, there is a difference in doing something which is technically illegal, and advising someone else to do something technically illegal. Especially since the OP didn't originally state that and had no disclaimers...

1) if the car can't maintain speed when coasting in gear, then coasting in neutral will use less fuel overall despite coasting in gear using no fuel.
2) if the car can maintain speed when coasting in gear, then coasting in gear will use less fuel than coasting in neutral.

No Wai...

*There will be times when coasting gets you further using less fuel overall, due to picking up speed going down hill vs. using no fuel and then going back to cruising mpg sooner...

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough? I agree - If the coasting distance in neutral >> coasting distance in gear, then you can save gas using neutral. An alternative would be if the manufacturer has the cut in for the injectors set quite high.

It will probably be less of a problem in the future, manufacturers are implementing systems which partially open the throttle in coasting situations (i.e. when the driver has the throttle shut) to reduce pumping losses.

You're grasping at pennies here. Totally not worth the effort at all.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
It's not that easy to remove an AC system, freon must be pumped out by a licensed dealer then you have the serpentine belt arrangement to worry about, might have to come up with some sort of custom bracket with empty pulley to replace the missing AC compressor. Then if you want to ever sell the car you must re-install the whole bit all over again. No way you can save enough gas to make it worthwhile..
 

SparkyJJO

Lifer
May 16, 2002
13,357
7
81
Heck just leave the AC turned off, 50 pounds of weight savings is hardly gonna net you measurable mpg increase.

And a bunch of these things listed either a) drive other drivers nuts b) is unsafe or c) is untrue (coasting in neutral for example, vs in gear, not to mention it is harder on your transmission to do so).

 

ja1484

Platinum Member
Dec 31, 2007
2,438
2
0
Originally posted by: Bignate603
Once I did have misfire due to a clogged injector. Those cleaners couldn't do anything to fix it. It took a professional cleaning by my mechanic to fix it.


Exactly. If it's something injector cleaner can do something about...it's not anything.

I'd wager running that stuff through an engine just confuses the poor ECU more than anything else...
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
Heck just leave the AC turned off, 50 pounds of weight savings is hardly gonna net you measurable mpg increase.

And a bunch of these things listed either a) drive other drivers nuts b) is unsafe or c) is untrue (coasting in neutral for example, vs in gear, not to mention it is harder on your transmission to do so).

Coasting in neutral vs. engine brakes should be at your discretion. If you're coming up to a red light and the car is in gear, leave it there and let it slow your car down. If you're on the highway going down a very long hill with a relatively low decline, pop it in neutral and glide for several miles. If you were to leave it in gear, your car would slow down to a crawl within a mile or less.
 

PhoKingGuy

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2007
4,685
0
76
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
Heck just leave the AC turned off, 50 pounds of weight savings is hardly gonna net you measurable mpg increase.

And a bunch of these things listed either a) drive other drivers nuts b) is unsafe or c) is untrue (coasting in neutral for example, vs in gear, not to mention it is harder on your transmission to do so).

Coasting in neutral vs. engine brakes should be at your discretion. If you're coming up to a red light and the car is in gear, leave it there and let it slow your car down. If you're on the highway going down a very long hill with a relatively low decline, pop it in neutral and glide for several miles. If you were to leave it in gear, your car would slow down to a crawl within a mile or less.

Wow....just wow

Are you for real????? A highway? Are you that person who makes me wish I had a 50 cal mounted on the roof of my car?
 

SparkyJJO

Lifer
May 16, 2002
13,357
7
81
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
Heck just leave the AC turned off, 50 pounds of weight savings is hardly gonna net you measurable mpg increase.

And a bunch of these things listed either a) drive other drivers nuts b) is unsafe or c) is untrue (coasting in neutral for example, vs in gear, not to mention it is harder on your transmission to do so).

Coasting in neutral vs. engine brakes should be at your discretion. If you're coming up to a red light and the car is in gear, leave it there and let it slow your car down. If you're on the highway going down a very long hill with a relatively low decline, pop it in neutral and glide for several miles. If you were to leave it in gear, your car would slow down to a crawl within a mile or less.

Maybe yours does. My dad's Toyota is horrible about that. My car doesn't, it coasts quite well.
 

jhu

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
11,918
9
81
Originally posted by: PhoKingGuy
Originally posted by: SickBeast

Coasting in neutral vs. engine brakes should be at your discretion. If you're coming up to a red light and the car is in gear, leave it there and let it slow your car down. If you're on the highway going down a very long hill with a relatively low decline, pop it in neutral and glide for several miles. If you were to leave it in gear, your car would slow down to a crawl within a mile or less.

Wow....just wow

Are you for real????? A highway? Are you that person who makes me wish I had a 50 cal mounted on the roof of my car?

Ah, you must be guy who likes to tailgate people despite no exits for miles and 2 empty left lanes.
 

PhoKingGuy

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2007
4,685
0
76
Originally posted by: jhu
Originally posted by: PhoKingGuy
Originally posted by: SickBeast

Coasting in neutral vs. engine brakes should be at your discretion. If you're coming up to a red light and the car is in gear, leave it there and let it slow your car down. If you're on the highway going down a very long hill with a relatively low decline, pop it in neutral and glide for several miles. If you were to leave it in gear, your car would slow down to a crawl within a mile or less.

Wow....just wow

Are you for real????? A highway? Are you that person who makes me wish I had a 50 cal mounted on the roof of my car?

Ah, you must be guy who likes to tailgate people despite no exits for miles and 2 empty left lanes.

Not really, more likely to blow past you. I have a fast in my car for a reason :evil:
 

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
1
0
Originally posted by: fleabag
That's great that your tires wear evenly but that isn't the case for everyone. I see many many vehicles that have their tires at door jam inflation and still see uneven wear, indicating that it's underinflated. On the Volvo S60, I keep the tires at 55psi cold even though the tires are rated 51psi cold and I can't tell you how amazed I am to see the tires wear so perfectly even. As for the rims, it was just an example and not all cars with large rims have equally sized brakes..

I just looked up the recommended tire pressures for the volvo S60, they recommend a whopping 39 psi. 55 psi is ridiculous. You're going to end up with worse handling because the tire is hard as a rock and will have a lousy contact patch. On top of that the ride quality will suffer because the tire won't flex like the manufacturer intended. Tires act as part of your suspension, if they can't flex and absorb impact like they are supposed to your car isn't running as the designers and engineers intended it to.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
Originally posted by: Bignate603
Originally posted by: fleabag
That's great that your tires wear evenly but that isn't the case for everyone. I see many many vehicles that have their tires at door jam inflation and still see uneven wear, indicating that it's underinflated. On the Volvo S60, I keep the tires at 55psi cold even though the tires are rated 51psi cold and I can't tell you how amazed I am to see the tires wear so perfectly even. As for the rims, it was just an example and not all cars with large rims have equally sized brakes..

I just looked up the recommended tire pressures for the volvo S60, they recommend a whopping 39 psi. 55 psi is ridiculous. You're going to end up with worse handling because the tire is hard as a rock and will have a lousy contact patch. On top of that the ride quality will suffer because the tire won't flex like the manufacturer intended. Tires act as part of your suspension, if they can't flex and absorb impact like they are supposed to your car isn't running as the designers and engineers intended it to.

It's fleabag he always comes up and does some of the stupidest stuff.
 

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
1
0
Originally posted by: zerocool84
Originally posted by: Bignate603
Originally posted by: fleabag
That's great that your tires wear evenly but that isn't the case for everyone. I see many many vehicles that have their tires at door jam inflation and still see uneven wear, indicating that it's underinflated. On the Volvo S60, I keep the tires at 55psi cold even though the tires are rated 51psi cold and I can't tell you how amazed I am to see the tires wear so perfectly even. As for the rims, it was just an example and not all cars with large rims have equally sized brakes..

I just looked up the recommended tire pressures for the volvo S60, they recommend a whopping 39 psi. 55 psi is ridiculous. You're going to end up with worse handling because the tire is hard as a rock and will have a lousy contact patch. On top of that the ride quality will suffer because the tire won't flex like the manufacturer intended. Tires act as part of your suspension, if they can't flex and absorb impact like they are supposed to your car isn't running as the designers and engineers intended it to.

It's fleabag he always comes up and does some of the stupidest stuff.

I know, but sometimes he really does take the cake.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Auto manufacturers who ship their vehicles overseas routinely OVER-INFLATE their tires up to 80PSI (on a 44psi tire for example) in order to prevent the car from sitting on its rims by the time it arrives at its destination.

Why not just use nitrogen? My tires came filled with nitrogen when I bought the car and the pressure never drops. Almost a year later and they haven't lost any pressure.

Why take the time to pump them way up?

/facepalm.

Nitrogen will still leak out of tyres.

Sure it will, no one said it wouldn't, but replacing the 21% oxygen with Nitrogen's fatter molecule should slow down the leakage. I've never had tires maintain their pressure this long before.

 

fleabag

Banned
Oct 1, 2007
2,450
1
0
Originally posted by: Bignate603
Originally posted by: fleabag
That's great that your tires wear evenly but that isn't the case for everyone. I see many many vehicles that have their tires at door jam inflation and still see uneven wear, indicating that it's underinflated. On the Volvo S60, I keep the tires at 55psi cold even though the tires are rated 51psi cold and I can't tell you how amazed I am to see the tires wear so perfectly even. As for the rims, it was just an example and not all cars with large rims have equally sized brakes..

I just looked up the recommended tire pressures for the volvo S60, they recommend a whopping 39 psi. 55 psi is ridiculous. You're going to end up with worse handling because the tire is hard as a rock and will have a lousy contact patch. On top of that the ride quality will suffer because the tire won't flex like the manufacturer intended. Tires act as part of your suspension, if they can't flex and absorb impact like they are supposed to your car isn't running as the designers and engineers intended it to.

Or maybe it's because the manufacturers don't want the passengers to be subjected to additional road noise and harsher bumps? Just because a manufacturer doesn't intend something, it doesn't mean that there is anything particularly wrong with it. There are pluses and minuses of running higher tire pressures, I have weighed them and I've chosen to raise the tire pressure because in my case, the pluses outweigh the minuses. It's different for every car and raising the tire pressure can in fact make the car behave differently and in some cases it's worse and others it's better.

Fact is, before I raised the tire pressure, the edges of the tires were wearing down more, now that I have them raised to the pressures they're at, they're now wearing perfectly even, not in the middle but perfectly even. Every car is different, I'm not telling you to do anything, I'm just letting you know that you can't make broad declarations that one should not raise their tire pressure to the sidewall rating just because you haven't bothered to try for yourself and see the results for yourself. Also you're forgetting one important thing, those tire pressure guides and "listening to the manufacturer" for PSI ratings were suggestions from yesteryear where people were driving on bias plys and if you weren't at the right pressure, overinflation was a serious concern. Now with radial tires, overinflation isn't too much of a concern and uneven wear from overinflation is far less dramatic than it was with the bias plys. Tire PSI ratings are mostly bullshit if you're willing to learn and understand how your car behaves after the modifications and make adjustments here and there.

With that aside..........


YOUR TIRES AREN'T GOING TO EXPLODE CAUSE YOU'RE RUNNING AT 100PSI ON A 44psi tire. The only exception to this is if you've got an old beat up tire that shouldn't even be driven on in the first place!
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
YOUR TIRES AREN'T GOING TO EXPLODE CAUSE YOU'RE RUNNING AT 100PSI ON A 44psi tire. The only exception to this is if you've got an old beat up tire that shouldn't even be driven on in the first place!

So why do they inflate high psi truck tires in a cage?
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
Over inflation and under inflation both void your tire warranty as well.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
100 punds of pressure on every square inch of your tire? Do some math...
 

fleabag

Banned
Oct 1, 2007
2,450
1
0
Originally posted by: LTC8K6
YOUR TIRES AREN'T GOING TO EXPLODE CAUSE YOU'RE RUNNING AT 100PSI ON A 44psi tire. The only exception to this is if you've got an old beat up tire that shouldn't even be driven on in the first place!

So why do they inflate high psi truck tires in a cage?

Because they're re-treads and I've seen truck tires blow out on the highway one too many times... Retreads are far less strong and safe than a new tire that has never been molested..

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Over inflation and under inflation both void your tire warranty as well.
Ok well unfortunately how do you prove what is over and underinflation. Over and underinflation in THIS thread is extremely subjective but if you asked me, I'd say over is above the wall rating and under is under what your car is asking for. In otherwords, I consider what the car suggests to be a "minimum" and not a maximum because if you're going to drive 100mph, you sure as hell won't want to be on your doorjam's PSI rating now would you? (Go read your manual and you'll discover it says add a few PSI when going higher speeds)

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
100 punds of pressure on every square inch of your tire? Do some math...
Yes, One Hundred Pounds on every square inch on the inside of my tire...imagine that! Now go look at a bicycle tire and raise the PSI to 60 or 80; or 100psi those thin ones for road bikes).........now what???


Futhermore, how do you tell someone to inflate their tires to their door jam's ratings when they've got completely different wheels and tires on their car?? Unfortunately, people say "it still applies" and in reality it doesn't.
 

Draftee

Member
Feb 13, 2009
68
0
0
Do you remember the first time you rode your bike alone? What a great feeling to ride wherever you please. On your own steam, with new boundaries opened up. And then? We tend to pick up instinctively things that make cycling much easier: we try not to carry unnecessary baggage, we resist the wind as little as we need to and we pump up flat tyres. It's obvious that cycling with a flat tyre means more effort; so it's an easy conclusion to draw, but an effective one: as soon as the tyre is back up, we can proceed on our way again happily. Muscle power to the cyclist is fuel to the automobile driver, and depending on the driving style of the individual driver, fuel consumption can be reduced by up to 25 percent quite simply. This corresponds to a saving of approx. 298 euro and around 608 kg less CO2 for a Golf TDI with an average consumption of 5.2 l/100 km over 18,000 kilometres. We have summarised below the best tips for how you can achieve this. It's not just your wallet that will benefit from these tips, but the environment too, and, thanks to a cool and composed driving style, your nerves! And the greatest thing of all:
Once taken onboard, these tips will probably never be forgotten: just like riding a bike.

* Avoid short journeys

The engine consumes a particularly large volume of fuel when cold. The volume of fuel burned on shorter trips is therefore above average, especially in winter.

* Check your tyre pressures

Always use the tyre pressure recommended by Volkswagen for full loads. This reduces road resistance and thus fuel consumption.

* Use fuel-efficient engine oil

Fuel-efficient oil is fully synthetic low-viscosity engine oil. While it may be a bit more expensive, this type of oil will cut your fuel consumption by as much as 5%.

* Avoid unnecessary loads

Additional weight of just 100 kg, for instance, will increase the fuel consumption of a Golf by up to 0.3 l/100 km.

* Be aerodynamic

Always remove auxiliary equipment such as roof boxes or baggage racks if these are not required. Even at 100 kph, a mid-range vehicle carrying three bicycles on the roof will consume around 2 litres more fuel for every 100 kilometres travelled.

* Switch gears quickly

Use third gear in traffic at 30 kph, fourth gear at 40 kph and fifth gear at 50 kph. Switch gears as soon as possible.

* Allow the vehicle to roll

If, for instance, you are approaching a red light, simply take your foot off the accelerator and let the vehicle roll along in gear. At this point the engine's overrun fuel cut-off is applied and the fuel supply is cut off, so you are not using any fuel.

* Look ahead when driving and »swim« with the traffic

Always maintain sufficient distance between you and the vehicle
in front. This way you can control rapid variations in speed
by taking your foot off the accelerator rather than braking and accelerating.

* Drive smoothly and calmly

Where possible, drive at a steady and moderate pace. In all likelihood, you will still arrive at your destination just as quickly as if you constantly accelerate and decelerate.

* Use additional devices, which increase fuel consumption, moderately

Comfort is important ? but in moderation. Take air-conditioning, for instance: the system output is at its highest during the cooling phase, in which the system is used to cool the vehicle interior when it is warm due to summer temperatures; this is reflected in fuel consumption. Therefore it's best to aerate the interior before the start of a trip, begin the journey with the window open and only then start the air-conditioning system.

http://www.volkswagen.com/vwcm...rauch/Verbraucher.html

Fuel Saving Tips PDF
 

jhu

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
11,918
9
81
Speaking of Volkswagen, I was flipping through my owner's manual and came upon something interesting: they recommend turning the engine off at long stop lights! I've never seen a manufacturer recommend turning off the engine on the road before.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
Fleabag, I'm not here to argue with you.

I'm just making sure valid info is presented to counter you.
 
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