Signed up for my MSF course! (Now with bike)

[djnsmith7]

That's the kind of advice that will get someone killed.

SV is a great bike but not exactly n00b friendly. It makes around 75hp and almost 50 ft-lb of torque so it will sprint to 60mph from a standstill in about 4 seconds flat and run the 1/4 mile in 11 seconds in skilled hands. Also, because it is a V-twin you have a lot of engine braking off throttle which requires some finesse to operate smoothly.

Still, it's a lot better choice than a 600cc sport bike, but we don't need to rehash that nonsense again here.

Buy the Ninja 250 used and then sell it in 6 months when you're ready to move on to a bigger bike. I bet you don't lose any money on it as long as you take good care of it.

Jules, I agree with most of your posts, but not this one. I've been riding since '96, owned 4 bikes, 2 600s, a 750 & now a 1kRR. If I were to go back & do it all over again, I'd be bored as hell with a 250 in a month, 2...Tops. I have friends who started out on SV650's & they did just fine. Hell, I started out on a 600 F3 & I was fine.

I have friends who started out on 600s & they're on litre bikes now. This whole thing about starting out on a 250 & keeping it for months is nonsense. Unless you can wring that bikes neck at full throttle (which I don't recommend), you wouldn't even stand a fighting chance in riding with a group like the guys I ride with.

For reference, we went for a nice, long ride this weekend with about 12 bikes, most of which were 600s. For most in the group, that's their first bike & we all made it home in one piece. On a side note, we didn't obliterate anyone when we would hit a straight, which meant we didn't have to pull over every 5 minutes & wait for someone.

Keep in mind, the 250 tops out right around 90 mph. It's a great starter bike, but for most that buy them, they don't keep them long. If you're going to turn around & sell a bike in 2 months, it seems like a waste to me.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Jules, I agree with most of your posts, but not this one. I've been riding since '96, owned 4 bikes, 2 600s, a 750 & now a 1kRR. If I were to go back & do it all over again, I'd be bored as hell with a 250 in a month, 2...Tops. I have friends who started out on SV650's & they did just fine. Hell, I started out on a 600 F3 & I was fine.

I have friends who started out on 600s & they're on litre bikes now. This whole thing about starting out on a 250 & keeping it for months is nonsense. Unless you can wring that bikes neck at full throttle (which I don't recommend), you wouldn't even stand a fighting chance in riding with a group like the guys I ride with.

For reference, we went for a nice, long ride this weekend with about 12 bikes, most of which were 600s. For most in the group, that's their first bike & we all made it home in one piece. On a side note, we didn't obliterate anyone when we would hit a straight, which meant we didn't have to pull over every 5 minutes & wait for someone.

Keep in mind, the 250 tops out right around 90 mph. It's a great starter bike, but for most that buy them, they don't keep them long. If you're going to turn around & sell a bike in 2 months, it seems like a waste to me.

Hindsight is always 20/20.

I didn't say you couldn't do it. Just that it is better to start out on a smaller, lighter bike and the wee ninja is a much more forgiving bike than the SV650. It isn't far off in performance from a 600cc super sport.

I've ridden with a ton of people who started out on 600cc super sports and many of them can't even come close to exploring the limits of those bikes. You just don't learn as fast on a high performance bike. About the only thing you do learn quickly is how much it can bite you.

FBB bought a Ninja 250 last summer IIRC and he's still riding it as far as I know.

 

[roguerower]

Jules, I agree with most of your posts, but not this one. I've been riding since '96, owned 4 bikes, 2 600s, a 750 & now a 1kRR. If I were to go back & do it all over again, I'd be bored as hell with a 250 in a month, 2...Tops. I have friends who started out on SV650's & they did just fine. Hell, I started out on a 600 F3 & I was fine.

I have friends who started out on 600s & they're on litre bikes now. This whole thing about starting out on a 250 & keeping it for months is nonsense. Unless you can wring that bikes neck at full throttle (which I don't recommend), you wouldn't even stand a fighting chance in riding with a group like the guys I ride with.

For reference, we went for a nice, long ride this weekend with about 12 bikes, most of which were 600s. For most in the group, that's their first bike & we all made it home in one piece. On a side note, we didn't obliterate anyone when we would hit a straight, which meant we didn't have to pull over every 5 minutes & wait for someone.

Keep in mind, the 250 tops out right around 90 mph. It's a great starter bike, but for most that buy them, they don't keep them long. If you're going to turn around & sell a bike in 2 months, it seems like a waste to me.

And I'm from the camp that agrees with starting out on a 250 or 500. I rode my GS500 for about 8 months before upgrading and it was an awesome bike to learn on. Oh, and I beat the shit out of a helluva lot of people on 600cc & 1000cc supersports. Where I would always get beat was in the straightaways which is where the squids who didn't know how to ride their supersports would jump ahead of me, just to slow me down in the next corner.

Take two people, one who learns to ride on a 600cc and one who learns to ride on a 500cc, and put them on a different 600cc supersport on a unknown track. I'd bet that the 500cc rider will kick the shit out of the 600cc rider because the 500cc rider learned how to ride the bike a lot better than the 600cc rider did in order to stick with all of his supersport friends.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Bought a bike on Friday.

Was out at KSC for the shuttle launch (bummer), and stopped by the Honda / Kawasaki dealership on my way home just to look around. Sales guy pointed out that they had just gotten in a 2011 Ninja 250R with 255 miles on it. Wasn't planning on buying, but I got it for $3400. This is in an area where the dealer gets $300 over MSRP, and where there are ads on CL looking for an '08+ 250R for $3500, so I felt pretty good.

I sat on everything from the Ninja 250R and CBR250R to 1000cc supersports. Even at 6'1" the low seat height of the 250's felt really good - I like being able to have both feet flat on the ground.

Negotiated delivery as part of the price, and it showed up at my house on Saturday morning. I'm fighting the temptation to ride around my neighborhood, as my MSF course is only a few days away.

As silly as it may sound, I also think the desire to keep this bike in good shape so as to not kill the resale value may make me a bit more cautious when I ride.

Sounds pretty sweet.

I think I'm on the same path. Will take MSF next month, then look for a bike (of course, I've been saying this every spring.)

I like the idea of ~650 cruisers, but the newer Ninja 250s just look like a lot of fun. That one you got is sexy as hell!

Enjoy!

 

[DirthNader]

I appreciate all the feedback guys - believe me, the possibility that the 250 is "too small" has been in the back of my mind through this whole process.

Without going to much into my (four-wheel) motorsports background, I was raised around SCCA club racing, in particular D Sports. Built them, crewed them, driven them. Literbike engines have been the engine of choice in those cars, one of the reasons being that engines from wrecked bikes are plentiful. The first K1 GSX-R engine we dropped in my father's car showed less than 250 miles when we plugged it into the stock dash. The second engine? The odo lit up with just over 100.

Growing up around that puts the fear of God in you about motorcycles. I was raised referring to sport bikes as "donor bikes". I'm starting small because that's what I need to do - get over my fear, build up confidence, and actually enjoy the ride.

 

[Zargon]

yup.

I did lots of SCCA autoX and some HPDE's in cars before I went to bikes. I had already had the fear of god put in me numerous times in cars, so that helped I think transitioning to bikes

my first bike was a 82 yamaha XZ550, DOHC all AL watercooler vtwin with electronic ignition

about 50hp at the rear wheel and a linear as hell powerband. I got stupid and bite on it a few times but none that caused serious injury to me or the bike.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

I appreciate all the feedback guys - believe me, the possibility that the 250 is "too small" has been in the back of my mind through this whole process.

Without going to much into my (four-wheel) motorsports background, I was raised around SCCA club racing, in particular D Sports. Built them, crewed them, driven them. Literbike engines have been the engine of choice in those cars, one of the reasons being that engines from wrecked bikes are plentiful. The first K1 GSX-R engine we dropped in my father's car showed less than 250 miles when we plugged it into the stock dash. The second engine? The odo lit up with just over 100.

Growing up around that puts the fear of God in you about motorcycles. I was raised referring to sport bikes as "donor bikes". I'm starting small because that's what I need to do - get over my fear, build up confidence, and actually enjoy the ride.

Sensible man :thumbsup:

No point scaring the shit out of yourself and giving up (and taking a big financial hit).

 

[soccerballtux]

Are you aware of the fact that 250cc sport bikes have better 0-60 times than a lot of cars out there?

yep 0-60 gonna do you a lot of good getting from 70 to 85 running from that soccer mom. Too bad wind resistance grows exponentially with speed-- that's why the 0-60's are so good on bikes.

 

[amdhunter]

Got a couple of questions for you guys:

Would a small bike like that be a good fit for a 250lb person?
How many MPG do these things get?

I have always considered one for my commute to work (2.5m one way.) I am scared to death of bikes, but thats probably because I've never ridden one.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Got a couple of questions for you guys:

Would a small bike like that be a good fit for a 250lb person?
How many MPG do these things get?

I have always considered one for my commute to work (2.5m one way.) I am scared to death of bikes, but thats probably because I've never ridden one.

Yes, it will have plenty of power to propel you.

MPG will be over 60 IIRC. My SV650 gets 45MPG when I'm romping on it. I've gotten over 50 when taking it easy.

 

[*kjm]

Got a couple of questions for you guys:

Would a small bike like that be a good fit for a 250lb person?
How many MPG do these things get?

I have always considered one for my commute to work (2.5m one way.) I am scared to death of bikes, but thats probably because I've never ridden one.

You could always look into a supermoto also.... I think this is the way I'm going to go.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Jules, I agree with most of your posts, but not this one. I've been riding since '96, owned 4 bikes, 2 600s, a 750 & now a 1kRR. If I were to go back & do it all over again, I'd be bored as hell with a 250 in a month, 2...Tops. I have friends who started out on SV650's & they did just fine. Hell, I started out on a 600 F3 & I was fine.

I have friends who started out on 600s & they're on litre bikes now. This whole thing about starting out on a 250 & keeping it for months is nonsense. Unless you can wring that bikes neck at full throttle (which I don't recommend), you wouldn't even stand a fighting chance in riding with a group like the guys I ride with.

For reference, we went for a nice, long ride this weekend with about 12 bikes, most of which were 600s. For most in the group, that's their first bike & we all made it home in one piece. On a side note, we didn't obliterate anyone when we would hit a straight, which meant we didn't have to pull over every 5 minutes & wait for someone.

Keep in mind, the 250 tops out right around 90 mph. It's a great starter bike, but for most that buy them, they don't keep them long. If you're going to turn around & sell a bike in 2 months, it seems like a waste to me.

and for a newbie to try and keep up with your cool racebike buddies would be retarded. that's almost a surefire way to cause *someone* to have an accident, by giving them a bike beyond their abilities and having them ride beyond their abilities.

 

[simonizor]

Jules, I agree with most of your posts, but not this one. I've been riding since '96, owned 4 bikes, 2 600s, a 750 & now a 1kRR. If I were to go back & do it all over again, I'd be bored as hell with a 250 in a month, 2...Tops. I have friends who started out on SV650's & they did just fine. Hell, I started out on a 600 F3 & I was fine.

I have friends who started out on 600s & they're on litre bikes now. This whole thing about starting out on a 250 & keeping it for months is nonsense. Unless you can wring that bikes neck at full throttle (which I don't recommend), you wouldn't even stand a fighting chance in riding with a group like the guys I ride with.

For reference, we went for a nice, long ride this weekend with about 12 bikes, most of which were 600s. For most in the group, that's their first bike & we all made it home in one piece. On a side note, we didn't obliterate anyone when we would hit a straight, which meant we didn't have to pull over every 5 minutes & wait for someone.

Keep in mind, the 250 tops out right around 90 mph. It's a great starter bike, but for most that buy them, they don't keep them long. If you're going to turn around & sell a bike in 2 months, it seems like a waste to me.

Not all people ride to see how fast and recklessly they can go. A lot of people just like to ride.

 

[djnsmith7]

So let me get this straight...those of you who disagree with my comments / sentiments (& it's fine that you do, btw), all suggest new riders start out on a 250? If so, that's hilarious.

I'll remind you guys that most of the guys I ride with started out on a 600 & some even started out on a litre bike (not that I'd ever recommend that). Some of these riders are females, too. I add that in just in case folks want to engage in the whole gender convo.

Now, for the gentlemen who mentioned that he could blow by folks on bigger bikes on a 250 on the track, I would agree that's not only possible, it happens. I saw it happen on my 1st track day.

Problem with that scenario is we're talking about someone with a ton of track & street riding experience on that 250, whereas in this discussion, we're referring to a novice rider. Very different situations.

 

[djnsmith7]

Not all people ride to see how fast and recklessly they can go. A lot of people just like to ride.

Oh I see, because we ride at a moderate (some may consider fast) pace, we're reckless. Gotcha.

 

[djnsmith7]

and for a newbie to try and keep up with your cool racebike buddies would be retarded. that's almost a surefire way to cause *someone* to have an accident, by giving them a bike beyond their abilities and having them ride beyond their abilities.

If you knew anything about how we ride in our group (it's blatantly obvious you don't), you'd know we tell all new riders (new to our group) to ride at their own pace & not try to keep up. We talk about the pace we'll try to ride for the day & let everyone know where our stops will be. We communicate, we don't just throw the noobs in the back & wish them luck.

I would like to say I'm surprised by some of these responses, but I'm not. Typical AT discussion.

 

[Fenixgoon]

If you knew anything about how we ride in our group (it's blatantly obvious you don't), you'd know we tell all new riders (new to our group) to ride at their own pace & not try to keep up. We talk about the pace we'll try to ride for the day & let everyone know where our stops will be. We communicate, we don't just throw the noobs in the back & wish them luck.

I would like to say I'm surprised by some of these responses, but I'm not. Typical AT discussion.

to repeat, first you say...

Unless you can wring that bikes neck at full throttle (which I don't recommend), you wouldn't even stand a fighting chance in riding with a group like the guys I ride with.

and then you say:

you'd know we tell all new riders (new to our group) to ride at their own pace & not try to keep up.

which is it really?

 

[JulesMaximus]

If you knew anything about how we ride in our group (it's blatantly obvious you don't), you'd know we tell all new riders (new to our group) to ride at their own pace & not try to keep up. We talk about the pace we'll try to ride for the day & let everyone know where our stops will be. We communicate, we don't just throw the noobs in the back & wish them luck.

I would like to say I'm surprised by some of these responses, but I'm not. Typical AT discussion.

I've ridden with you sport bike guys...out of about 15 of us that went to Palomar Mountain there was only one guy who was faster than me up the mountain and he was on a liter bike, can't recall which one. There were two other guys who were about my pace, one was on a GSXR750 and the other on a Buell 1125R. The rest were on 600cc super sports...a couple with race replica plastics.

This was the San Diego Sport Bike Meetup group. I've ridden with and know a few members. Good group, safety is definitely a concern. I used to work with one of their members (coincidentally I currently work with another) and she was on a ride last summer when one new guy bought it (I made a thread about it here in fact). He was airlifted to the hospital in critical condition but he survived and I think he made almost a full recovery. Pretty sure he was on a brand new GSXR750.

I don't ride with them much anymore...too many noobs and unpredictable riders. I have a smaller close knit group of friends I ride with.

With liability the way it is and how people are so sue happy there is no fucking way I'd recommend a sport bike to a complete stranger who has never ridden before over the internet.

 

[djnsmith7]

Jules, I think you actually grasp my points. The others, I'm not worried about. I'm not implying in any way that you aren't fast on the SV, & actually, from some of your previous posts / threads, I'd say you probably ride a very good pace.

Things on AT get blown out of proportion all the time. So I'll say this...A 250 is a very boring & short term solution to learning how to ride & to become comfortable on a bike. I wouldn't recommend one to anyone who has an itch to go fast. Fast & 250 don't go hand in hand, unless you are already fast on a bike (hence my references to guy flying around the track on a 250).

You can learn the same things on a 600 as you learn on a 250, but have the motivation to keep it a lot longer.

I don't know anyone (been riding since '96) who actually wanted to keep a 250 for longer than a few months. Those that did complained about the bike on a regular basis (no power)...

Just for reference, my 1KRR does in 1st gear what the 250 does in 5th (95 mph)...

 

[Kroze]

this whole thread reeks of silly

what are you supposed to do when you can't accelerate on the highway to get away from that SUV mom because the engine is too small?

You're ignorant. That is all.


You do know that the 250 is faster than 60% of all cars at any given stop light. So what does that mean? Should we be banning cars from being on the road since they are slow & a road hazard?

 

[Kroze]

Are you aware of the fact that 250cc sport bikes have better 0-60 times than a lot of cars out there?

Obviously not, the guy is stupid.

 

[Kroze]

yep 0-60 gonna do you a lot of good getting from 70 to 85 running from that soccer mom. Too bad wind resistance grows exponentially with speed-- that's why the 0-60's are so good on bikes.

The bike run 15.5 in the 1/4 mile, do you know how many cars, trucks, suv, van, etc... on the road today that run slower than that?


Mods should do an AE check on this guy, It's fleabag! lol.

 

[EMPshockwave82]

My first bike was a 1584cc harley night train.....

meh. to each his own.


I have not yet come close to laying it down or dropping it.


Too many CC's too early is just for people who are immature and cant handle the power or try to handle the power too soon.

 

[djnsmith7]

My first bike was a 1584cc harley night train.....

meh. to each his own.


I have not yet come close to laying it down or dropping it.


Too many CC's too early is just for people who are immature and cant handle the power or try to handle the power too soon.

Even though I wouldn't suggest anyone start out on anything > 675cc (think Triumph), there have been a lot of people, some of which I've known personally, whose first bike was an R1. Now, to me, that's just nuts, but they're fine & put 20k miles on the clock.

When you think about the process of learning how to ride, most of it requires you to respect the power, manage the power & use a ton of common sense. For those of you that are convinced all novice riders should start out on a 250, you're implying those people are incapable & severely lacking in these areas. In most cases, that's not an accurate assessment.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Even though I wouldn't suggest anyone start out on anything > 675cc (think Triumph), there have been a lot of people, some of which I've known personally, whose first bike was an R1. Now, to me, that's just nuts, but they're fine & put 20k miles on the clock.

When you think about the process of learning how to ride, most of it requires you to respect the power, manage the power & use a ton of common sense.

Do they ever ride in the mountains on twisty roads?

Most of learning how to ride is learning the dynamics of traction, lean angles, and the limits of adhesion in varying conditions on a two wheeled vehicle. Add to that cars, guardrails, a lack of guardrails, oil, gavel, rain, heat, cold, animals, ego, a false sense of your own abilities, twisty mountain roads, a lot of power and strong brakes and it is a recipe for disaster.

Any noob can twist the throttle on an R1 and go down a flat straight road. That's not where I ride though.

I'm talking about roads like this with 4,000' of elevation change in 12 miles.

For those of you that are convinced all novice riders should start out on a 250, you're implying those people are incapable & severely lacking in these areas. In most cases, that's not an accurate assessment.

I think you're vastly overstating the abilities of most new riders.