Signed up for my MSF course! (Now with bike)

[roguerower]

Even though I wouldn't suggest anyone start out on anything > 675cc (think Triumph), there have been a lot of people, some of which I've known personally, whose first bike was an R1. Now, to me, that's just nuts, but they're fine & put 20k miles on the clock.

When you think about the process of learning how to ride, most of it requires you to respect the power, manage the power & use a ton of common sense. For those of you that are convinced all novice riders should start out on a 250, you're implying those people are incapable & severely lacking in these areas. In most cases, that's not an accurate assessment.

No. Having learned to ride on a 500 and then moving up to a 675, I would never suggest someone start learning how to ride on a street triple or a daytona. My Triple R is a finicky little bitch that I love to death but if a novice hit a bump too hard or gave it too much throttle in a turn, they'd get thrown in an instant. On a Daytona it would be even worse.

When you think about the process of learning how to ride, most of it requires you to respect the bike, respect the environment, keep your head on a swivel, use conservative movements, ride at your own pace, and stay away from everything. Fixed that for you. The power is one small component of the overall package. Focusing on it and forgeting everything else is how a guy like me on a GS500 can kick the shit out of a person like you on a liter bike in the twisties. I did it routinely so don't say it can't be done. And of course, common sense is not common.

I don't think that a new person should be restricted to learning on a 250, rather I think they should learn to ride on a "de-tuned" sportbike such as a 250r, GS500, EX500, 650r, etc. Learning to ride on a 600cc or 1000cc supersport which can be raced professionally in its stock form is stupid.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Jules, I think you actually grasp my points. The others, I'm not worried about. I'm not implying in any way that you aren't fast on the SV, & actually, from some of your previous posts / threads, I'd say you probably ride a very good pace.

Things on AT get blown out of proportion all the time. So I'll say this...A 250 is a very boring & short term solution to learning how to ride & to become comfortable on a bike. I wouldn't recommend one to anyone who has an itch to go fast. Fast & 250 don't go hand in hand, unless you are already fast on a bike (hence my references to guy flying around the track on a 250).

You can learn the same things on a 600 as you learn on a 250, but have the motivation to keep it a lot longer.

I don't know anyone (been riding since '96) who actually wanted to keep a 250 for longer than a few months. Those that did complained about the bike on a regular basis (no power)...

Just for reference, my 1KRR does in 1st gear what the 250 does in 5th (95 mph)...

Believe me, I'd be bored stiff on a 250.

Go read what trained professionals write about what is the best beginner bike. None of them recommend 600cc super sports as a good beginner bike.

 

[djnsmith7]

To answer your question in short, yes, we ride primarily up in the Santa Cruz mountains. I don't have time right now to pull up a nice image like the one you posted, but if you look up Hwy's 9, 35 & 84, you'll see they aren't straight roads.

I will say that we are both looking at the extremes. I only referenced the R1 noobs to outline that noobs can handle litre bikes, but I also said, I highly recommend against it as a first bike.

I'm giving noob riders credit for being able to use common sense & deal with road conditions as well as other traffic.

You're implying that noob riders, in most cases, aren't capable of riding the twisties.

There's a meet being held tonight, which will hold about 50 - 60 bikes, give or take. The vast majority of that group started out on a 600. Most of those riders hit the twisties with us, but in small groups.

I'm wondering if the novice riders in SoCal are just so out of their minds, they can't figure out how to manage a sportbike. I can't imagine the novice riders here in NorCal are that much better (& learn faster) than they do there.

Maybe you've just gotten stuck with noobs who shouldn't own bikes. I don't know man, but I wasn't a total moron when I bought my first bike. My F3 was actually a very easy bike to learn on & ride at a moderate pace.

 

[djnsmith7]

No. Having learned to ride on a 500 and then moving up to a 675, I would never suggest someone start learning how to ride on a street triple or a daytona. My Triple R is a finicky little bitch that I love to death but if a novice hit a bump too hard or gave it too much throttle in a turn, they'd get thrown in an instant. On a Daytona it would be even worse.

When you think about the process of learning how to ride, most of it requires you to respect the bike, respect the environment, keep your head on a swivel, use conservative movements, ride at your own pace, and stay away from everything. Fixed that for you. The power is one small component of the overall package. Focusing on it and forgeting everything else is how a guy like me on a GS500 can kick the shit out of a person like you on a liter bike in the twisties. I did it routinely so don't say it can't be done. And of course, common sense is not common.

I don't think that a new person should be restricted to learning on a 250, rather I think they should learn to ride on a "de-tuned" sportbike such as a 250r, GS500, EX500, 650r, etc. Learning to ride on a 600cc or 1000cc supersport which can be raced professionally in its stock form is stupid.

I know you're in TX & I'm in San Jose, but I'd accept your challenge if you ever make it over here.

I never suggested to forget the basics or any other common sense modules, I listed a few fundamentals for conversation. No, it's not stupid to start out on a 600cc bike. Men & women do it here all the time & they're not dying by the dozens. Maybe where you guys live, noobs just can't grasp the fundamentals when they buy a new bike. That is in fact, what the MSF Course is for. They should walk away with enough information & practice to be able to ride a 600cc bike. The fundamentals you outlined are equally important, as are others that neither of us referenced.

I know you want to get technical, so I'll go there with you. I didn't suggest starting on a 675 Triumph, I suggested not to start on anything larger than one. You put equal riders on a Gix6, 600RR, 636 or R6 & they'll probably beat the 675, but that's a different convo altogether.

 

[RiDE]

My friend bought a gixxer 750 a couple of months ago... there was no talking him out of it so i said whatever. He can ride on the street sure... but I wouldn't ride behind him. lol D:

Just to further derail this thread... here's a video that always makes me feel like a noob. :hmm:

RIP Peter Lenz

 

[djnsmith7]

Peter, what a great kid, & his dad is pretty cool too. Had the pleasure of being set up next to them 2 summers ago at Buttonwillow. Holy crap he was fast on that 125. I remember he & Cory Call were playing around a bit on the track & the kid stayed pretty close. Cory rides a beefed up Gix1K...

 

[simonizor]

Oh I see, because we ride at a moderate (some may consider fast) pace, we're reckless. Gotcha.

Anything more than 5-10 mph above the speed limit is reckless. End of story. No valid argument.

If you wanna drive fast, go to the track. Driving above the speed limits on public roads puts you and everyone else in danger.

 

[roguerower]

I know you're in TX & I'm in San Jose, but I'd accept your challenge if you ever make it over here.

I never suggested to forget the basics or any other common sense modules, I listed a few fundamentals for conversation. No, it's not stupid to start out on a 600cc bike. Men & women do it here all the time & they're not dying by the dozens. Maybe where you guys live, noobs just can't grasp the fundamentals when they buy a new bike. That is in fact, what the MSF Course is for. They should walk away with enough information & practice to be able to ride a 600cc bike. The fundamentals you outlined are equally important, as are others that neither of us referenced.

I know you want to get technical, so I'll go there with you. I didn't suggest starting on a 675 Triumph, I suggested not to start on anything larger than one. You put equal riders on a Gix6, 600RR, 636 or R6 & they'll probably beat the 675, but that's a different convo altogether.

Deal.

And if you really want to get technical, you used a > sign which means greater than, not equal to or greater than.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Even though I wouldn't suggest anyone start out on anything > 675cc (think Triumph), there have been a lot of people, some of which I've known personally, whose first bike was an R1. Now, to me, that's just nuts, but they're fine & put 20k miles on the clock.

When you think about the process of learning how to ride, most of it requires you to respect the power, manage the power & use a ton of common sense. For those of you that are convinced all novice riders should start out on a 250, you're implying those people are incapable & severely lacking in these areas. In most cases, that's not an accurate assessment.

there is a huge difference between a 600cc race bike and a 600cc sport/tourer.

example: my 2009 FZ6R (600cc, derived from previous gen R6, tuned for better midrange) vs. a 2009 R6. The R6 will be infinitely less friendly to a new rider, despite having the same displacement.

Peter, what a great kid, & his dad is pretty cool too. Had the pleasure of being set up next to them 2 summers ago at Buttonwillow. Holy crap he was fast on that 125. I remember he & Cory Call were playing around a bit on the track & the kid stayed pretty close. Cory rides a beefed up Gix1K...

the kid is so light he doesn't need much power to keep him going incredible riding skills.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Fuck it...

I recommend the turbo Hayabusa as a first bike from now on. If you're too stupid to know how to ride a turbo Hayabusa then you have no business breathing.

 

[Greenman]

Fuck it...

I recommend the turbo Hayabusa as a first bike from now on. If you're too stupid to know how to ride a turbo Hayabusa then you have no business breathing.

I think you're on to something here. Most people that ask about a starter bike really just want to brag about the SS they already put a deposit on. Nothing anyone say's is going to change their mind, so why should we deny them the learning experience they so desperately want? Let them get an SS, let them enjoy it. Statistically speaking, their going to wreak it in two years anyway.

 

[Kabob]

I swear every few months this argument breaks out about what a good "beginner" bike is. And inevitably when I notice it (which isn't often) I will link to this.

I personally know someone who learned to ride on an '06 GSX-R750. Is he dead? No, he's actually fine. Oh, well if he's fine does that mean a GSX-R750 is a good beginner bike? HELL NO! People think that because someone "learned" on a supersport that it makes it a good starter bike. These bikes possess properties that make them inherently difficult to master. If you truly want to be a fast/skilled rider LEARN on a bike that emphasizes the basics of riding (Ninja 250/500, GS500, etc). After you develop your skills there move to a more powerful bike.

A buddy of mine is a club motorcycle racer. He has owned a Ninja 250 three different times and every time he buys one he says his skill level jumps, that's after years of riding and racing. You can go fast on a Ninja 250, but it requires A LOT more skill.

 

[DirthNader]

Most of learning how to ride is learning the dynamics of traction, lean angles, and the limits of adhesion in varying conditions on a two wheeled vehicle. Add to that cars, guardrails, a lack of guardrails, oil, gavel, rain, heat, cold, animals, ego, a false sense of your own abilities, twisty mountain roads, a lot of power and strong brakes and it is a recipe for disaster.

I'm more concerned with committing an entirely new set of controls to muscle memory.

I've been racing cars since I was 10, so it's unsettling to be on the road and have to actively think about how to apply brakes, throttle, shift, turn, etc.

 

[djnsmith7]

deal.

And if you really want to get technical, you used a > sign which means greater than, not equal to or greater than.

≥ .

 

[JulesMaximus]

I'm more concerned with committing an entirely new set of controls to muscle memory.

I've been racing cars since I was 10, so it's unsettling to be on the road and have to actively think about how to apply brakes, throttle, shift, turn, etc.

Turbo Busa

\thread

 

[Zargon]

Turbo Busa

\thread

you are going to be a troll now? fantastic

 

[JulesMaximus]

you are going to be a troll now? fantastic

:thumbsup: It sure beats trying to give good advice.

 

[Zargon]

:thumbsup: It sure beats trying to give good advice.

likes been posted before

its best to start small, but many people dont and are fine.

the 'pro' advice is great, and its blanket advice. that means that it does OK for most, but some can still handle it better

 

[DirthNader]

Completed the class over the weekend, got my new license w/ motorcycle endorsement a couple of hours ago.

I did manage to completely butcher the box when it came time for the test run. I guess I figured that I had mastered it when using the clutch and rear brake, so it was time to up the stakes and do it by modulating the throttle alone. Needless to say I crossed a couple of lines.

I want to practice my emergency stops, swerves, and u-turns a bit on my own bike, and do my 11 mile commute a few times over the weekend when there's very little traffic. Last piece of gear should come in today (kevlar-reinforced jeans), and the bike is fully insured despite it not being required in Florida and it not having a lein against it.

I figure in a couple of weeks I'll be ready to trade it for a turbo 'busa.

 

[Zargon]

LOL

 

[roguerower]

Completed the class over the weekend, got my new license w/ motorcycle endorsement a couple of hours ago.

I did manage to completely butcher the box when it came time for the test run. I guess I figured that I had mastered it when using the clutch and rear brake, so it was time to up the stakes and do it by modulating the throttle alone. Needless to say I crossed a couple of lines.

I want to practice my emergency stops, swerves, and u-turns a bit on my own bike, and do my 11 mile commute a few times over the weekend when there's very little traffic. Last piece of gear should come in today (kevlar-reinforced jeans), and the bike is fully insured despite it not being required in Florida and it not having a lein against it.

I figure in a couple of weeks I'll be ready to trade it for a turbo 'busa.

/thread

 

[PlasmaBomb]

My friend bought a gixxer 750 a couple of months ago... there was no talking him out of it so i said whatever. He can ride on the street sure... but I wouldn't ride behind him. lol D:

Just to further derail this thread... here's a video that always makes me feel like a noob. :hmm:

RIP Peter Lenz

Will is about to loose rear traction.

Great video, sorry to hear that Peter passed away