Silicon Valley Bank collapses

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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,516
13,090
136
I dont believe in the death penalty, but maybe an exception is warranted for top brass wall street and banking institutions…
 
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Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,429
3,533
126

Those two are pretty different scenarios. In the first one - the assets are there they are just too illiquid to satisfy demand. The new institution will likely lose almost nothing in order to make people whole and the problem will be solved.

In the latter scenario student loan forgiveness doesn't do anything to fix the underlying issue. It's a bandaid with consequences. Now don't get me wrong I'm for it but only because the alternative is apparently nothing and those in their 20-30s are showing signs of credit delinquency issues. It's also a very significant amount - too high IMO given the average student loan debt is <$40k and the median is right around $20k. But the entire apparatus already encourages students to take out substantial loans, students who demand\vote\select expensive schools\facilities for questionable reasons, states to underfund education, allows fiscally irresponsible or predatory schools and all this does is encourage everyone to ramp that up because the Feds will just step in. And if inflation gets worse too? Well that's just more fun for everyone
 
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shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
Yup, I'm pretty sure at least 5 people here pointed out that specific deregulation would cause massive problems eventually. And they were right. And it only took five god damn years for it to happen.
THANKS DONALD! You fucked over a ton of Americans even after you left office, which we all knew you would!
AND I bet you anything Fox News has spent days blaming this all on Biden and those tax'n'spend Libruls! I guarantee it.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
I was pretty close, they blame woke liberals and a liberal anti-business economy.


 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,600
24,834
136
I was pretty close, they blame woke liberals and a liberal anti-business economy.


Are we sure it wasn't Hillary Clinton in the CEO's office with a candlestick?
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,429
3,533
126
Yup, I'm pretty sure at least 5 people here pointed out that specific deregulation would cause massive problems eventually. And they were right. And it only took five god damn years for it to happen.
THANKS DONALD! You fucked over a ton of Americans even after you left office, which we all knew you would!
AND I bet you anything Fox News has spent days blaming this all on Biden and those tax'n'spend Libruls! I guarantee it.
And what specifically in the deregulation allowed this to happen? I'm not anti-regulation, in fact I believe we can't trust companies as a whole to do the right thing. But I don't see and haven't read any expert that can point to a provision removed in the last 5 or even 15 years that would have otherwise prevented this. Dodd-Frank requirements and stress testing doesn't appear to have covered this specific scenario at all. I mean I haven't read everything so perhaps its out there but it sure doesn't seem like it. So it's not about restoring any existing regulation (which, again, just encouraged banking consolidation into even larger 'too big to fail' banks as Barney Frank himself identified later) but actually understanding how it happened to be better able to avoid this in the future and not suffer more unintended consequences
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,752
34,630
136
So it's not about restoring any existing regulation (which, again, just encouraged banking consolidation into even larger 'too big to fail' banks as Barney Frank himself identified later) but actually understanding how it happened to be better able to avoid this in the future and not suffer more unintended consequences

I'm not sure there is a regulatory solution for don't make dumb investments, badly mismanage your PR, and be highly vulnerable to a run started by a relatively small group of quite rich twitchy people. Large regionals argued that regulating them like the big banks was too expensive and would have triggered undesired consolidation (probably true) but also a localized failure would not present a systemic risk and that the FDIC could easily handle the fallout (also probably true). Vocal people in SV of course don't like that part 2 is now happening but they just have a bigger megaphone than say a bank who has say a ton of farmers as depositors.
 
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shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
And what specifically in the deregulation allowed this to happen? I'm not anti-regulation, in fact I believe we can't trust companies as a whole to do the right thing. But I don't see and haven't read any expert that can point to a provision removed in the last 5 or even 15 years that would have otherwise prevented this. Dodd-Frank requirements and stress testing doesn't appear to have covered this specific scenario at all. I mean I haven't read everything so perhaps its out there but it sure doesn't seem like it. So it's not about restoring any existing regulation (which, again, just encouraged banking consolidation into even larger 'too big to fail' banks as Barney Frank himself identified later) but actually understanding how it happened to be better able to avoid this in the future and not suffer more unintended consequences
OK, i will give your question an honest answer, because you are not a lying shitbag conservative who says "prove it!" and "Do your own research!" in the same post on social media.
Give me a few minutes to go thru this thread and read the articles which have already been posted, I will copy and paste the content here.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
"President Trump and congressional Republicans' decision to roll back Dodd-Frank's 'too big to fail' rules for banks like SVB—reducing both oversight and capital requirements—contributed to a costly collapse," said Sen. Elizabeth Warren.

Prior to the enactment of the Crapo bill, which then-President Donald Trump signed into law on May 24, 2018, banks with more than $50 billion in assets were subject to enhanced liquidity mandates and more frequent stress tests aimed at ensuring they could weather economic turmoil.

The 2018 law raised the threshold for the more stringent regulations to $250 billion or higher, a gift to banks like SVB that had been working for years to gut post-crisis regulations imp"

The collapse of Silicon Valley Bank was totally avoidable," Rep. Katie Porter (D-Calif.) wrote on Twitter. "In 2018, Wall Street pushed a deregulation bill that allowed banks like SVB to take reckless risks. It passed, even as I and many others warned of the risks. I am writing legislation to reverse that law."lemented under the Dodd-Frank Act of 2010.

As The Leverreported Friday, SVB specifically pushed Congress in 2015 to hike the regulatory threshold to $250 billion, with the bank's president touting its "strong risk management practices."

"Three years later—after the bank spent more than half a million dollars on federal lobbying—lawmakers obliged," the outlet noted.

So, as one example, and I remember this cuz I was a working adult in 2008 and I remember what happened then and I also remember all the regulations put in place AFTER 2008: Trump vastly increased the value of a bank before it has to comply with all the 2008 regulations of oversight and checks & balances and transparency. And that lobbying was done exclusively by SVB, the 16th largest bank in America.

Will post more in a couple minutes.
 
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shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
THESE PEOPLE ARE ALL FUCKING CRIMINALS!!

We should drag them into the street and put hot tar and feathers on em!!




Eight years before the second-largest bank failure in American history occurred this week, the bank’s president personally pressed Congress to reduce scrutiny of his financial institution, citing the “low risk profile of our activities and business model”, according to federal records reviewed by the Lever.
Three years later – after the bank spent more than half a million dollars on federal lobbying – lawmakers obliged.

In 2015, SVB President Greg Becker submitted a statement to a Senate panel pushing legislators to exempt more banks – including his own – from new regulations passed in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis. Despite warnings from some senators, Becker’s lobbying effort was ultimately successful.

Touting “SVB’s deep understanding of the markets it serves, our strong risk management practices”, Becker argued that his bank would soon reach $50bn in assets, which under the law would trigger “enhanced prudential standards”, including more stringent regulations, stress tests and capital requirements for his and other similarly sized banks.

In his testimony, Becker insisted that $250bn was a more appropriate threshold.

“Without such changes, SVB likely will need to divert significant resources from providing financing to job-creating companies in the innovation economy to complying with enhanced prudential standards and other requirements,” said Becker, who reportedly sold $3.6m of his own stock two weeks ago, in the lead-up to the bank’s collapse. “Given the low risk profile of our activities and business model, such a result would stifle our ability to provide credit to our clients without any meaningful corresponding reduction in risk.”

Around that time, federal disclosure records show the bank was lobbying lawmakers on “financial regulatory reform” and the Systemic Risk Designation Improvement Act of 2015 – a bill that was the precursor to legislation ultimately signed by President Donald Trump that increased the regulatory threshold for stronger stress tests to $250bn.

Trump signed the bill despite a report from Democrats on Congress’s joint economic committee warning that under the new law, SVB and other banks of its size “would no longer be subject to nearly any enhanced regulations”.

The bill was supported in the Senate by 50 Republicans and 17 Democrats, including the Democratic Virginia Senator Mark Warner, for whom Becker held a fundraiser at his Menlo Park, California, home in 2016, according to an invitation obtained by the Sunlight Foundation and OpenSecrets. The bank’s political action committee also donated a total of $10,000 to Warner’s campaigns in the 2016 and 2018 election cycles.

In 2019, when the Federal Reserve proposed regulations implementing the deregulatory law, financial watchdogs warned that its regulations on Category IV institutions – as SVB was later classified due to its size and other risk factors – were far too weak.

The final rule guaranteed that Category IV institutions are “not required to conduct and publicly report the results of a company-run stress test” and “reduces the required minimum frequency of liquidity stress tests and granularity of certain liquidity risk-management requirements”, according to Federal Reserve officials at the time.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,429
3,533
126
I'm not sure there is a regulatory solution for don't make dumb investments, badly mismanage your PR, and be highly vulnerable to a run started by a relatively small group of quite rich twitchy people. Large regionals argued that regulating them like the big banks was too expensive and would have triggered undesired consolidation (probably true) but also a localized failure would not present a systemic risk and that the FDIC could easily handle the fallout (also probably true). Vocal people in SV of course don't like that part 2 is now happening but they just have a bigger megaphone than say a bank who has say a ton of farmers as depositors.

The irony of SIVB is that most banks have historically failed due to credit risk issues. This is the first major one I recall where the primary issue was a duration mismatch between high quality assets and deposit liabilities. As shown below, being flooded with deposits from fast-money VC firms and other corporate accounts at a time of historically low interest rates might have been more of a curse than a blessing

It does appear there may be regulatory opportunity in terms of Held to Maturity assets vs Available for Sale. On the positive side the above PDF does lend more credence to SVB being an outlier so hopefully an isolated incident? So perhaps this falls into a 'working as intended if, perhaps a bit larger failure than preferred'. Bank does something unusual in an unusual situation. Bank is punished for this via failure. FDIC, Fed and new institution largely if not entirely make customers whole. Banks re-examine their processes in light of the situation.

Now - if we could only work on that holding the Executives accountable aspect...

Even with all the above it sounds like they were 24 hours away from a potential solution but couldn't make the timing work - potentially due to a failure to plan or expect things to move so rapidly

So, as one example, and I remember this cuz I was a working adult in 2008 and I remember what happened then and I also remember all the regulations put in place AFTER 2008: Trump vastly increased the value of a bank before it has to comply with all the 2008 regulations of oversight and checks & balances and transparency. And that lobbying was done exclusively by SVB, the 16th largest bank in America.

Will post more in a couple minutes.
From my understanding - those requirements amount to holding 7% of deposits in highly liquid assets. SVB needed 24% Even if SVB had been required to hold 7% because the cap hadn't been raised from $50Bn to $250Bn that's still not enough

Edit: Also government regulators would be unlikely to punish a bank for holding a lot of US Treasuries or other medium to long duration high quality assets. Most (all?) recent (~30 years?) issues are due to asset risk and you can't get much safer than US Treasuries. Kinda like the saying in IT that "No one ever gets fired for buying Cisco".
 
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Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,459
987
126
The interviews of Silicone Valley people who were impacted last night on TV news suggests that it's not just rich people. Many are small businesses, start-ups, etc. They didn't seem panicked but it was anything but plain that they wouldn't be mostly wiped out. They didn't seem to know what to make of what's happening other than that they weren't able to pull out their money yesterday morning upon hearing of the problems.

96% of their deposits don’t fall under FDIC insurance. Almost everyone involved who didn’t get out in time is going to eat their shirts if the banks assets don’t cover deposits once liquidated.

And while a relatively unique situaiton the underlying issue which is banks holding long term bond worth way less than going bond rates is widespread. Banks with a lot of paper losses on bonds is fairly wide spread but unless something else occurs on top of that a run likely won’t occur.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,708
49,291
136
96% of their deposits don’t fall under FDIC insurance. Almost everyone involved who didn’t get out in timeis going to eat their shirts.
And while a relatively unique bank the underlying issue(banks holding long term bond worth way less than going bond rates) is widespread.
I don’t think that’s true - the bank has lots of assets that will be sold to make depositors whole, or at least much more whole.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,752
34,630
136
Reading some of the posts of people who had money at SVB be like:

I heard a rumor there were issues at the bank.

I immediately wired out millions of dollars and chatted with my friends who also wired out millions of dollars who chatted with their friends etc and on.

Huh...there appears to be a run on the bank now so I'll wire out whatever else I have in accounts there.

OMG the bank failed. What happened?
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
Reading some of the posts of people who had money at SVB be like:

I heard a rumor there were issues at the bank.

I immediately wired out millions of dollars and chatted with my friends who also wired out millions of dollars who chatted with their friends etc and on.

Huh...there appears to be a run on the bank now so I'll wire out whatever else I have in accounts there.

OMG the bank failed. What happened?
well, what happened was they fucked up their finances and were completely unable to take care of their customers.
the customers did NOT cause this. deliberate shenanigans by the executives caused this and the customers just tried to save themselves.
Banks are a service. they have customers. most banks treat their customers worse than McDonalds or Walmart. But the people sitting in nice offices with expenses suits somehow ALWAYS avoid any real responsibilities when they run it into the ground. To the best of my knowledge nobody from Enron ever served any real time in federal prison. Or Fanny Mae/Freddie Mac.
In fact I saw a couple articles showcasing a few assholes who took a shitload of money to a non-extradition country and basically live like kings now.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,752
34,630
136
well, what happened was they fucked up their finances and were completely unable to take care of their customers.
the customers did NOT cause this. deliberate shenanigans by the executives caused this and the customers just tried to save themselves.
Banks are a service. they have customers. most banks treat their customers worse than McDonalds or Walmart. But the people sitting in nice offices with expenses suits somehow ALWAYS avoid any real responsibilities when they run it into the ground. To the best of my knowledge nobody from Enron ever served any real time in federal prison. Or Fanny Mae/Freddie Mac.
In fact I saw a couple articles showcasing a few assholes who took a shitload of money to a non-extradition country and basically live like kings now.

SV herd mentality helped cause a massive run on the bank which could have just raised capital and fired the execs responsible for mismanagement instead of smoking the entire bank. So yes some of the customers did cause this, some more knowingly than others though I suspect.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
see thats the other problem. Every time an executive does what he's told to do, they blame him, fire him, and give him a multimillion dollar golden parachute.
That crap needs to be outlawed as well. And they also typically vote to pay themselves huge bonuses while the company is collapsing. By the time the shareholders figure it out and vote to remove them, the damage is already done, or on an inevitable unavoidable downward spiral.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,708
49,291
136
SV herd mentality helped cause a massive run on the bank which could have just raised capital and fired the execs responsible for mismanagement instead of smoking the entire bank. So yes some of the customers did cause this, some more knowingly than others though I suspect.
Also they were keeping huge, necessary, unsecured deposits there. Maybe…don’t do that.

Funny how the ‘smart money’ is often not very smart.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
No the smart money is literally like 10 guys in a company of 10,000 with a hundred thousand investors. They're the only ones who actually know what's going on and they are almost exclusively evil manipulative shits. And people that smart never go to prison. They set up multiple layers of scapegoats, have their lawyers lined up and ready to go, and usually make a plan for the worse case scenario, which is feds knocking down their doors, handcuffs ready to go.

By the way, the last rich asshole to serve any real time was also pardoned:


By the orange rapist everyone believes is a champion of the working class.
 
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