Simple logic test

[swtethan]

Originally posted by: stan394

Originally posted by: swtethan

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: swtethan

Originally posted by: Yossarian
it doesn't matter what's on the other side of the 1.

yes it does, because the facts state that there are 4 cards, one side has a letter, one side has a number. the hypothesis never says that the vowel has to be the face up card, just that the vowel is on one side and odd number on the other

but you still have to flip all 4 to get a final conclusion

flip 2 cards to get a half assed test

What will you learn from flipping card B or card 1 in regards to proving the statement correct or incorrect? Nothing, so you don't need to flip it.

what if B had a 1 on the back? what if 1 had an A on the back? there is nothing in the FACTS that states what is on the back of the cards except that its number on one side, letter on the other.

what if B had a 1 on the back?
- it doesn't matter. it neither proves nor disproves the statement

what if 1 had an A on the back?
- it proves the statement, and same if 1 had a B on the back

it DISPROVES the statement if B has a 1 on the back..... please read carefully

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: swtethan

it DISPROVES the statement if B has a 1 on the back..... please read carefully

Logic 101 for you: The statement is "If there is a vowel on one side, then there must be an odd number on the other side."

It is untrue to therefore claim "If there is an odd number on one side, there is a vowel on the other". But what you CAN claim is "If there is an even number on one side, there cannot be a vowel on the other". If the card has a B on it, the statement makes no claim on what may be on the other side since it only refers to cards which have a vowel on them.

 

[xtknight]

As for B: B's the letter so we know there isn't a vowel on one side. Why check the back? It's not going to tell us anything about whether VOWELS have odd numbers, right? Does anyone honestly have the REAL answer, and not just what they think it is? Link?

 

[JDrake]

Originally posted by: LoKe
I put all because...well...this logic question is retarded.

For some reason, I think putting "all of them" is even more retarded.
I voted A & 2

 

[swtethan]

Originally posted by: xtknight
As for B: B's the letter so we know there isn't a vowel on one side. Why check the back? It's not going to tell us anything about whether VOWELS have odd numbers, right? Does anyone honestly have the REAL answer, and not just what they think it is? Link?

but it is going to tell you that Constinant b has an odd number IF there is an odd number on the other side proving the hypothesis wrong, remember, the hypotesis doesnt state wether which side has to be checked one side will have x-letter, the other will have y-number, NOT the vowel facing up will have an odd number

one more thing... the facts do not state what has to be behind what i.e. odds with vowels, its all random

its just the hypothesis GUESSES whats behind what


check the facts, read it over

 

[Schfifty Five]

swtethan,

I don't think you understand the statement. That's why you continually get this question wrong.

"If there is a vowel on one side, then there must be an odd number on the other side."

If we are trying to prove this statement, we only need to flip over Card A and Card 2.

Card A - yes flip this b/c if behind this card shows an even number, then the statement is fux0red.

Card B - well, don't need to worry about this because the statement doesn't talk about consonants. It's only concerned about vowels.

Card 1 - again, read the original logic statement. The statement does not imply that an odd number showing, then the other side is a vowel. You can't assume from reading the statement, that Odd # leads to vowel. Only Vowel leads to odd is applicable. Therefore, card 1 can have either Vowel or Consonant and the logic statement still holds true.

Card 2 - Definitely need to flip this b/c if there is a vowel behind it, the statement is fux0red.

So yes, you COULD flip over all 4 cards, but his question was which cards MUST be flipped. Card B and Card 1 are just redunant cards that do not prove or disprove the original logic statement.

 

[Yossarian]

Originally posted by: swtethan

Originally posted by: xtknight
As for B: B's the letter so we know there isn't a vowel on one side. Why check the back? It's not going to tell us anything about whether VOWELS have odd numbers, right? Does anyone honestly have the REAL answer, and not just what they think it is? Link?

but it is going to tell you that Constinant b has an odd number IF there is an odd number on the other side proving the hypothesis wrong, remember, the hypotesis doesnt state wether which side has to be checked one side will have x-letter, the other will have y-number, NOT the vowel facing up will have an odd number


check the facts, read it over

you should just stop now because you have no idea what you're talking about. it has no bearing on the test statement whether the B has an odd number, an even number, or a picture of your mom on the back.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Holy crap you people are stupid.

Thank you, I was too polite to say it. I am not, however, too polite to agree.

The answer is A & 2...why?

The statement says that "If there is a vowel on one side, then there must be an odd number on the other side." The rules also say that the cards have a letter on one side an a number on the other.

This means the possible LEGAL cards look like this:

1. Vowel on one side and odd number on the other
2. Consonant on one side and odd number on the other
3. Consonant on one side and even number on the other

The only illegal card, according to the rules, is...
4. Vowel on one side and even number on the other

If you don't agree with that, look again, read the rules very carefully. If you think one of the four options is in the wrong catagory...support it with the statement. Remember, every vowel requiring an odd number on the other side does NOT mean that every odd number requires a vowel on the other side. This is the same flawed logic as "Every dog has four legs, Betsy the cow has four legs, so Betsy must be a dog".

Once you understand what cards are legal and what cards are not, testing the statement requires you to make sure all four cards are type 1, 2 or 3...in other words, NOT type 4.

To be type 4, the card must have both a vowel on one side, AND an even number on the other. The only cards that need to be flipped are the cards that meet one of the criteria, the cards who's upside does NOT meet either criteria can't possibly meet both of them, as is disqualified. Following this logic, A and 2 need to be tested.

 

[swtethan]

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: swtethan

Originally posted by: xtknight
As for B: B's the letter so we know there isn't a vowel on one side. Why check the back? It's not going to tell us anything about whether VOWELS have odd numbers, right? Does anyone honestly have the REAL answer, and not just what they think it is? Link?

but it is going to tell you that Constinant b has an odd number IF there is an odd number on the other side proving the hypothesis wrong, remember, the hypotesis doesnt state wether which side has to be checked one side will have x-letter, the other will have y-number, NOT the vowel facing up will have an odd number

one more thing... the facts do not state what has to be behind what i.e. odds with vowels, its all random

its just the hypothesis GUESSES whats behind what


check the facts, read it over

"If there is a vowel on one side, then there must be an odd number on the other side."

What could possibly be behind B that would prove that statement wrong? The statement says IF there is a vowel on one side. B is not a vowel, so the rest of the statement doesn't apply.

 

[Schfifty Five]

Originally posted by: swtethan

Originally posted by: xtknight
As for B: B's the letter so we know there isn't a vowel on one side. Why check the back? It's not going to tell us anything about whether VOWELS have odd numbers, right? Does anyone honestly have the REAL answer, and not just what they think it is? Link?

but it is going to tell you that Constinant b has an odd number IF there is an odd number on the other side proving the hypothesis wrong, remember, the hypotesis doesnt state wether which side has to be checked one side will have x-letter, the other will have y-number, NOT the vowel facing up will have an odd number

one more thing... the facts do not state what has to be behind what i.e. odds with vowels, its all random

its just the hypothesis GUESSES whats behind what


check the facts, read it over

You clearly do not understand logic and the functions/properties of logic statements such as this one.

 

[JujuFish]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
The only illegal card, according to the rules, is...
4. Vowel on one side and even number on the other.

This may be the best way to look at it for those who are having trouble seeing that only A and 2 are required. Once you know this is the only illegal combination, ask yourself which of the 4 cards could possibly violate this condition? Only A and 2. So those are the only ones needed to be checked.

 

[Schfifty Five]

Originally posted by: JujuFish

Originally posted by: Rainsford
The only illegal card, according to the rules, is...
4. Vowel on one side and even number on the other.

This may be the best way to look at it for those who are having trouble seeing that only A and 2 are required. Once you know this is the only illegal combination, ask yourself which of the 4 cards could possibly violate this condition? Only A and 2. So those are the only ones needed to be checked.

agreed :thumbsup:

 

[Schfifty Five]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Holy crap you people are stupid.

Thank you, I was too polite to say it. I am not, however, too polite to agree.

The answer is A & 2...why?

The statement says that "If there is a vowel on one side, then there must be an odd number on the other side." The rules also say that the cards have a letter on one side an a number on the other.

This means the possible LEGAL cards look like this:

1. Vowel on one side and odd number on the other
2. Consonant on one side and odd number on the other
3. Consonant on one side and even number on the other

The only illegal card, according to the rules, is...
4. Vowel on one side and even number on the other

If you don't agree with that, look again, read the rules very carefully. If you think one of the four options is in the wrong catagory...support it with the statement. Remember, every vowel requiring an odd number on the other side does NOT mean that every odd number requires a vowel on the other side. This is the same flawed logic as "Every dog has four legs, Betsy the cow has four legs, so Betsy must be a dog".

Once you understand what cards are legal and what cards are not, testing the statement requires you to make sure all four cards are type 1, 2 or 3...in other words, NOT type 4.

To be type 4, the card must have both a vowel on one side, AND an even number on the other. The only cards that need to be flipped are the cards that meet one of the criteria, the cards who's upside does NOT meet either criteria can't possibly meet both of them, as is disqualified. Following this logic, A and 2 need to be tested.

Damn that is a great explanation...

 

[chuckywang]

A and 2!!!!!!!

Anybody who says otherwise doesn't know logic.

 

[Schfifty Five]

Originally posted by: chuckywang
A and 2!!!!!!!

Anybody who says otherwise doesn't know logic.

:thumbsup:

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Schfifty Five

Originally posted by: chuckywang
A and 2!!!!!!!

Anybody who says otherwise doesn't know logic.

:thumbsup:

It's not necessarily a matter of "knowing" logic (i.e. as learned through formal education in logic.) Some people simply are logical enough that they can figure it out with a little bit of thought. Unfortunately, the poll is demonstrating that the people with good logic skills, whether inherent or learned, are in the minority.

btw, has anyone pointed out that the correct answer is
A and 2



btw, I'm willing to accept wagers from anyone who thinks otherwise.

 

[fitzov]

the 'if-then' statement is only false in one instance--where the antecedent is true and the consequent is false.

 

[slpaulson]

Unless I'm too half asleep to think, it makes me sad that most people voted wrong..

It doesn?t mater what?s behind B and 2.

But what if there was a vowel behind 2?

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: WolverineGator
FYI, this is a very well known psychological test. It is well written about in the scientific literature. The OP threw out a red herring. It usually takes groups of college age students half an hour to come up with the correct solution.

I certainly hope it's not the case...15 seconds isn't unreasonable IMHO.

Originally posted by: DrPizza
It's not necessarily a matter of "knowing" logic (i.e. as learned through formal education in logic.) Some people simply are logical enough that they can figure it out with a little bit of thought. Unfortunately, the poll is demonstrating that the people with good logic skills, whether inherent or learned, are in the minority.

btw, has anyone pointed out that the correct answer is
A and 2

Agreed. It's amazing how when people post threads about how smart everyone is, everyone's a genius. But when simple, almost TRIVIAL logic or physics problems come up, tons of people are not just wrong, but tragically wrong, and what's worse, they are unwilling to concede when presented with the facts.

 

[Schfifty Five]

A and 2.

Everyone who doesn't agree with this is WRONG and an IDIOT.

 

[JRich]

All of them

 

[Schfifty Five]

I can't believe there are 75 votes for A and 1 (wrong answer)....and only 39 for A and 2 (right answer).

Too many idiots here.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Schfifty Five
I can't believe there are 75 votes for A and 1 (wrong answer)....and only 39 for A and 2 (right answer).

Too many idiots here.

I think part of the problem is that the OP said that if it takes you more than 45 seconds, you're too slow. I don't know about anyone else, but that made me rush, and I voted for the wrong answer (A, 1 and 2). All of about 10 seconds later I figured out the right answer. What blows me away is that even in the face of proof of the correct answer, people would argue against it. In this thread and in the airplane thread.

 

[Schfifty Five]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Schfifty Five
I can't believe there are 75 votes for A and 1 (wrong answer)....and only 39 for A and 2 (right answer).

Too many idiots here.

I think part of the problem is that the OP said that if it takes you more than 45 seconds, you're too slow. I don't know about anyone else, but that made me rush, and I voted for the wrong answer (A, 1 and 2). All of about 10 seconds later I figured out the right answer. What blows me away is that even in the face of proof of the correct answer, people would argue against it. In this thread and in the airplane thread.

Ah, you make a good point about the "45 second bit