Single payer health care

[Mxylplyx]

Maybe the dems just dont have the political capital to take it on all at once, or put thousands of workers out of work, but lets face it, every person in America considers health care a right. We all expect to get treated for an illness, regardless of the fine print in our health insurance policy. If we need treatment, we get it whether we can pay for it or not, and if the hospital sends you a bill for 100K, you declare bankruptcy or get on some small payment plan that will never pay off the full bill.

My point is that since comprehensive health care is everyone's expectation, whether they are willing to admit it or not, it doesnt make sense to even have a private insurance market. There should be one plan that people pay into, and since it is a single comprehensive plan, there is no room for large scale competition or profit in this market. This middle man that is the private insurance market is just an inefficiency in the system, and should be done away with. I suspect that the government run plan that the dems are putting forth is just a trojan horse to this eventual system, and I have no problem with that.

 

[sportage]

Healthcare for profit is the master of all evils.
An employer based healthcare system is shameful.
As long as this continues, America is doomed to failure.
One by one "everyone" will lose their healthcare. Even the healthy.

Cigna had revenue of $19.1 billion in 2008, according to the company Web site.

Wendell Potter says he is finished defending the insurance industry, which he says is "beholden to Wall Street."

insurance.purging

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: sportage
Healthcare for profit is the master of all evils.

Thanks for the link. This sums it up nicely:

He says he finally decided to quit in 2007 after Cigna's controversial handling of an insurance claim made by the family of a California teenager, Nataline Sarkysian.

The Sarkysian family made repeated appeals at news conferences for Cigna to approve a liver transplant for the 17-year-old, who had leukemia. Cigna initially declined to cover the operation, then reversed its decision.

Sarkysian died hours after the company's reversal.

 

[Billyzeke]

Great! With UHC we can all die waiting for treatment.
I agree something needs to be done, but single payer health care is definitely not the answer.
How can we possibly insure everyone and expect to have any kind of quality care?
Where are we going to get the doctors and nurses to fill the increased demand? Dr's offices are already an overbooked madhouse.
When medicare and medicaid are on the verge of collapse, how are we going to pay for it all?

 

[Slew Foot]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: sportage
Healthcare for profit is the master of all evils.

Thanks for the link. This sums it up nicely:

He says he finally decided to quit in 2007 after Cigna's controversial handling of an insurance claim made by the family of a California teenager, Nataline Sarkysian.

The Sarkysian family made repeated appeals at news conferences for Cigna to approve a liver transplant for the 17-year-old, who had leukemia. Cigna initially declined to cover the operation, then reversed its decision.

Sarkysian died hours after the company's reversal.

Liver transplants patients need high doses of immunosuppresants to keep the liver from being rejected. Those doses would have caused her leukemia to flare killing her. She's dead anyway, give the liver to someone who has a chance.

But of course, what do I know, Im just a Liver Transplant Anesthesiologist.

 

[glenn1]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
Maybe the dems just dont have the political capital to take it on all at once, or put thousands of workers out of work, but lets face it, every person in America considers health care a right. We all expect to get treated for an illness, regardless of the fine print in our health insurance policy. If we need treatment, we get it whether we can pay for it or not, and if the hospital sends you a bill for 100K, you declare bankruptcy or get on some small payment plan that will never pay off the full bill.

My point is that since comprehensive health care is everyone's expectation, whether they are willing to admit it or not, it doesnt make sense to even have a private insurance market. There should be one plan that people pay into, and since it is a single comprehensive plan, there is no room for large scale competition or profit in this market. This middle man that is the private insurance market is just an inefficiency in the system, and should be done away with. I suspect that the government run plan that the dems are putting forth is just a trojan horse to this eventual system, and I have no problem with that.

Yeah, I'm so thrilled that my taxes will go up along with millions of other middle class folks, so that we can ensure that folks like this have their medical treatment costs picked up by Uncle Sam. After all, healthcare is a "right" isn't it?

link

link

link

 

[ccbadd]

I find it funny that nobody looks at the issue of forcing all of our medical persons to work for the government. If we get UHC a lot of people will have Washington dictate the terms of their employment simply because they will be forced to accept this insurance along with it's pricing. Everyone should look at this as if it were their jobs being effectively nationalized. It is absolutely unconstitutional, not to mention immoral and sets a really bad precedence.

 

[yllus]

Conversely, there is a significant amount of efficiency gained by going to a single-payer system, not to mention the leverage that single payer would have when it comes to negotiating prices for pharmaceutical products and other goods. I imagine that the nightmare scenario of going electronic with medical records would be just a tiny bit easier to handle in such a system.

 

[Andrew1990]

I dont expect to have the right to health care. I am in fit condition and young and will take the gamble rather than spend the money on insurance. I know many people who do this as well. I guess older people expect to have the right to health care as their cost will go up with age.

 

[Carmen813]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: sportage
Healthcare for profit is the master of all evils.

Thanks for the link. This sums it up nicely:

He says he finally decided to quit in 2007 after Cigna's controversial handling of an insurance claim made by the family of a California teenager, Nataline Sarkysian.

The Sarkysian family made repeated appeals at news conferences for Cigna to approve a liver transplant for the 17-year-old, who had leukemia. Cigna initially declined to cover the operation, then reversed its decision.

Sarkysian died hours after the company's reversal.

Liver transplants patients need high doses of immunosuppresants to keep the liver from being rejected. Those doses would have caused her leukemia to flare killing her. She's dead anyway, give the liver to someone who has a chance.

But of course, what do I know, Im just a Liver Transplant Anesthesiologist.

Doesn't chemo already suppress the immune system, especially in leukemia patients? My wifes WBC was around .1 for quite a while when she was getting treatment. Highest it ever got was 1.5.

As for the poster above me:
Never smoked, rarely drank, never did drugs, scored an outstanding on Air Force fitness test 9 months before being diagnosed with cancer. It's not only people who live poorly who get sick.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Billyzeke
How can we possibly insure everyone and expect to have any kind of quality care?

We already insure everyone. Your insurance premiums and health care costs pay for the guy without insurance who goes to the emergency room and can't pay the bill.

Originally posted by: ccbadd
I find it funny that nobody looks at the issue of forcing all of our medical persons to work for the government.

Except that they won't be working for the government.

Originally posted by: glenn1
After all, healthcare is a "right" isn't it?

You are correct.

Originally posted by: Billyzeke
Great! With UHC we can all die waiting for treatment.

Or we can just die waiting for our private for-profit insurance companies to approve our treatments, like Nataline did.

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
But of course, what do I know

You don't know much, since you weren't her doctor. Why did her doctors approve the transplant while the insurance company rejected it? Shouldn't the doctors be the ones making the health care decisions?

 

[jpeyton]

.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Billyzeke
Great! With UHC we can all die waiting for treatment.

About time

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: Andrew1990
I dont expect to have the right to health care. I am in fit condition and young and will take the gamble rather than spend the money on insurance. I know many people who do this as well. I guess older people expect to have the right to health care as their cost will go up with age.

I'll just have to keep repeating myself since this garbage keeps getting repeated. My 26 year old wife, 5'8 and 130 pounds, who runs regularly, was denied by every insurer in the state because of a "syndrome" diagnosed to her that required her to take a pill for a month so she could get pregnant.

You aren't just fit and young, you are an ignorant moron.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: Billyzeke
Great! With UHC we can all die waiting for treatment.

We could do like all the Canadians with money do who want treatment, just go t the US....ohh wait

 

[ccbadd]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: ccbadd
I find it funny that nobody looks at the issue of forcing all of our medical persons to work for the government.

Except that they won't be working for the government.

What is the difference when the governments reviews you work, sets how much you get payed, and can cut you off if you anger them.

 

[KMFJD]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Billyzeke
Great! With UHC we can all die waiting for treatment.

We could do like all the Canadians with money do who want treatment, just go t the US....ohh wait

Oh fuck off, that's so untrue.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: ccbadd

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: ccbadd
I find it funny that nobody looks at the issue of forcing all of our medical persons to work for the government.

Except that they won't be working for the government.

What is the difference when the governments reviews you work, sets how much you get payed, and can cut you off if you anger them.

Plenty of doctors out there who are almost exclusively Medicare. Trust me, they do just fine.

And I'd be fine with primary care doctors being paid less, provided that they have their student loans and school related living expenses completely forgiven and that they stay in primary care for a minimum of 10 years.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: KMFJD

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Billyzeke
Great! With UHC we can all die waiting for treatment.

We could do like all the Canadians with money do who want treatment, just go t the US....ohh wait

Oh fuck off, that's so untrue.

C:\>dir sarcasm.txt /s
Volume in drive C has no label.
Volume Serial Number is A0BE-CADA
File Not Found

C:\>

 

[desy]

One car accident
There goes fit and young

 

[abj13]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Liver transplants patients need high doses of immunosuppresants to keep the liver from being rejected. Those doses would have caused her leukemia to flare killing her. She's dead anyway, give the liver to someone who has a chance.

But of course, what do I know, Im just a Liver Transplant Anesthesiologist.

IIRC, her leukemia was already treated with a Bone Marrow Transplant. That completely changes the situation, the immunosuppressants would have covered her GVHD (which is what I assume caused her hepatic failure) and the transplant. The leukemia should not have been an active issue.

 

[owensdj]

Originally posted by: Andrew1990
I dont expect to have the right to health care. I am in fit condition and young and will take the gamble rather than spend the money on insurance. I know many people who do this as well. I guess older people expect to have the right to health care as their cost will go up with age.

Andrew, I'm glad you're fit and young, but you really are taking a huge gamble. Something could go wrong with your health at any moment. Even a relatively minor problem like appendicitis could leave you with a hospital bill in the tens of thousands of dollars. What are you going to do then?

Like most Americans, I see health care as a huge rip off. My father recently had a bladder procedure done that was non-invasive and took less than an hour in the OR, but still cost something like $8000. That's not counting the ridiculously high hospital room fee and other inflated costs. They charged over $500 for his prescription medicines that he picks up at the local pharmacy for a fraction of a cost, for a month's supply. Who exactly is pocketing all of this profit?

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Originally posted by: Andrew1990
I dont expect to have the right to health care. I am in fit condition and young and will take the gamble rather than spend the money on insurance. I know many people who do this as well. I guess older people expect to have the right to health care as their cost will go up with age.

The gamble your taking is not with your life, it's with OUR money. When you have an unforeseen illness or accident your $$$$$ bill will be picked up by the taxpayers and paying folks with insurance. We already pay for the catostrophic care of the uninsured, just not the way we should.

And what does your gambling with your own life or our money have to do with UHC? The debate is not about your willingness to gamble on your health or future as much as it is about what to do with you when somebody drags you to the emergency room and how it will be paid for.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy

Originally posted by: Andrew1990
I dont expect to have the right to health care. I am in fit condition and young and will take the gamble rather than spend the money on insurance. I know many people who do this as well. I guess older people expect to have the right to health care as their cost will go up with age.

The gamble your taking is not with your life, it's with OUR money. When you have an unforeseen illness or accident your $$$$$ bill will be picked up by the taxpayers and paying folks with insurance. We already pay for the catostrophic care of the uninsured, just not the way we should.

And what does your gambling with your own life or our money have to do with UHC? The debate is not about your willingness to gamble on your health or future as much as it is about what to do with you when somebody drags you to the emergency room and how it will be paid for.

Exactly, what people like Andrew1990 don't understand is that WE end up paying for his irresponsible behavior.

 

[ccbadd]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: ccbadd

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: ccbadd
I find it funny that nobody looks at the issue of forcing all of our medical persons to work for the government.

Except that they won't be working for the government.

What is the difference when the governments reviews you work, sets how much you get payed, and can cut you off if you anger them.

Plenty of doctors out there who are almost exclusively Medicare. Trust me, they do just fine.

And I'd be fine with primary care doctors being paid less, provided that they have their student loans and school related living expenses completely forgiven and that they stay in primary care for a minimum of 10 years.

Again, you are missing the point. They will not be given an option. What if the government took over whatever industry you work in and decided what you charge, get paid, and what not. That is just plain wrong and UNCONSTITUTIONAL!