Sister Wives to petition U.S. Supreme Court to recognize plural marriage

[Cerpin Taxt]

You realize the rule now is that only unmarried persons can marry an unmarried female? That is discrimination based upon marital status.

Newsflash, genius. Gender is a protected class and "married" isn't. Get a goddamned education, please.

There are arguments that discrimination based on sex is worse than discrimination based on marital status, but try not to insult people for ignoring obvious discrimination when you do so yourself.

"There are arguments" that the earth is flat, too, numbnuts.

{snip}

 

[MrPickins]

It is purely anecdotal but I know hundreds of poly people and my experience is that it is female dominated.

Polyamory isn't the same thing as polygamous marriage

This.

While the swinger lifestyle may be female dominated, we're talking polygamous marriage, a different topic altogether.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Polyamory isn't the same thing as polygamous marriage (although fwiw I do think that there is likely a biological predisposition towards promiscuity for certain people that could be used to argue discrimination in the same way gay marriage is defended).

Polyamory is polygamy with out the legal trappings. Most polyamorous people would practice polygamy if the law allowed, and they are the primary lobbyists for plural marriage.

This.

While the swinger lifestyle may be female dominated, we're talking polygamous marriage, a different topic altogether.

Polyamory is not swinging. Polyamory is having multiple loving relationships.

 

[OutHouse]

Polyamory is polygamy

umm no. Poly is pretty much free love, everybody is free to have a relationship with anybody, marriage status doesnt matter. Polygamy is different that you have one person as the head of house and the others are your spouces. yea i know you defined it a bit with "without the legal trappings" Polygamy is not wife #1 and Wife #4 getting it on while hubby is baning wife #2 in the kitchen.

 

[SMOGZINN]

umm no. Poly is pretty much free love, everybody is free to have a relationship with anybody, marriage status doesnt matter. Polygamy is different that you have one person as the head of house and the others are your spouces. yea i know you defined it a bit with "without the legal trappings" Polygamy is not wife #1 and Wife #4 getting it on while hubby is baning wife #2 in the kitchen.

Having been polyamorous for over 20 years, and a leader in the polyamory community, I think I know what I'm talking about.

Polyamory literally means 'Many Loves' and it is ethical non-monogamy. The Free Love style you are talking about normally called Relationship Anarchy. It is not all that common, or that well respected in the poly communities. It tends to be practiced by younger 20 somethings, and doesn't last very long. Most Poly households tend to operate like a normal family, just with 3+ adults. There is often dating outside of the household, but not always. In almost any polycule I've met Partner 1 and 2 getting it on in the bedroom while Partner 3 and 4 messing around in the kitchen is just fine, and something that happens. In some Partner 3 and 4 might be welcome to join 1&2 in others they would not be. It is all dependent on the people.

 

[Cozarkian]

Newsflash, genius. Gender is a protected class and "married" isn't. Get a goddamned education, please.


"There are arguments" that the earth is flat, too, numbnuts.

{snip}

I'm sure intelligent people understood, but I'll clarify for you - I meant there are valid arguments that are worth examining as to whether they are sound.

Now let's address your attempt at moving the goal posts. You insulted people for failing to notice discrimination when you were equally culpable. Claiming that the discrimination you missed is against an unprotected class doesn't change the fact that you are a hypocrite and wrong.

Also, marital status is a protected class under some states' laws, so again, you are wrong. Marital status is not a Title VII federally-protected class, but that doesn't make discrimination by the government permissible, it merely reduces the level of scrutiny used to determine whether the discrimination violates equal protection.

 

[MrPickins]

Polyamory is not swinging. Polyamory is having multiple loving relationships.

Misunderstanding; forget I said anything.

 

[Bart*Simpson]

I'm sure intelligent people understood, but I'll clarify for you - I meant there are valid arguments that are worth examining as to whether they are sound.

Now let's address your attempt at moving the goal posts. You insulted people for failing to notice discrimination when you were equally culpable. Claiming that the discrimination you missed is against an unprotected class doesn't change the fact that you are a hypocrite and wrong.

Also, marital status is a protected class under some states' laws, so again, you are wrong. Marital status is not a Title VII federally-protected class, but that doesn't make discrimination by the government permissible, it merely reduces the level of scrutiny used to determine whether the discrimination violates equal protection.

Well said. +1

 

[fskimospy]

I'm sure intelligent people understood, but I'll clarify for you - I meant there are valid arguments that are worth examining as to whether they are sound.

Now let's address your attempt at moving the goal posts. You insulted people for failing to notice discrimination when you were equally culpable. Claiming that the discrimination you missed is against an unprotected class doesn't change the fact that you are a hypocrite and wrong.

Also, marital status is a protected class under some states' laws, so again, you are wrong. Marital status is not a Title VII federally-protected class, but that doesn't make discrimination by the government permissible, it merely reduces the level of scrutiny used to determine whether the discrimination violates equal protection.

Discrimination is not inherently bad and I don't know anyone that would argue it was so how is he a hypocrite? We discriminate against rapists and murderers constantly, for example.

So while I think both polygamy and gay marriage should be legal if someone thinks otherwise they aren't necessarily being a hypocrite.

 

[OutHouse]

Having been polyamorous for over 20 years, and a leader in the polyamory community, I think I know what I'm talking about.

Polyamory literally means 'Many Loves' and it is ethical non-monogamy. The Free Love style you are talking about normally called Relationship Anarchy. It is not all that common, or that well respected in the poly communities. It tends to be practiced by younger 20 somethings, and doesn't last very long. Most Poly households tend to operate like a normal family, just with 3+ adults. There is often dating outside of the household, but not always. In almost any polycule I've met Partner 1 and 2 getting it on in the bedroom while Partner 3 and 4 messing around in the kitchen is just fine, and something that happens. In some Partner 3 and 4 might be welcome to join 1&2 in others they would not be. It is all dependent on the people.

i iknow what polyamory means and i know what polygamy means. you said they were the same thing which is not true. bottom line is polyamory is a completely different lifestyle than polygamy.

 

[SMOGZINN]

i iknow what polyamory means and i know what polygamy means. you said they were the same thing which is not true. bottom line is polyamory is a completely different lifestyle than polygamy.

No, they are not. Polygamy is just Polyamory with legal marriage.

po·lyg·a·my
pəˈliɡəmē/
noun
noun: polygamy

1. 1.
   the practice or custom of having more than one wife or husband at the same time.

Just like monogamous marriage some abuse polygamy. Those that do are the ones that stand out in your mind because they made national news and people talked about it. This is what you are forming your opinion of polygamy on, but it is just the edge cases. It is like basing your understanding of Christianity on the Westboro Baptist Church. If plural marriage was legal today many normal poly people would be in polygamous marriages.

 

[Cozarkian]

Discrimination is not inherently bad and I don't know anyone that would argue it was so how is he a hypocrite? We discriminate against rapists and murderers constantly, for example.

So while I think both polygamy and gay marriage should be legal if someone thinks otherwise they aren't necessarily being a hypocrite.

I never said or suggested all discrimination is bad. And originally, Cerpin was not arguing that single marriage is acceptable discrimination and straight marriage is unacceptable discrimination. Rather, Cerpin argued that one was not discriminatory and the latter is, then attacked people for failing to realize that. When I pointed out both are discriminatory, that is when Cerpin then tried to shift the argument to acceptable v. not acceptable discrimination.

In sum, Cerpin originally said people should recognize obvious discrimination but acted in a manner in which Cerpin failed to recognize obvious discrimination. As Cerpin's actions were the opposite of Cerpin's words, that is hypocrisy.

 

[OutHouse]

Those that do are the ones that stand out in your mind because they made national news and people talked about it. This is what you are forming your opinion of polygamy on

my opinion is based upon what polygamy is not what you think it is. Again poly and polygamy are not the same lifestyles and there is more to it than the marriage aspect that you keep throwing out there. here since you are having such a hard time, here is a link that may help.

http://www.yourtango.com/experts/mr-mike-hatcher/polyamory-vs-polygamy-what-difference-between-two

 

[Cozarkian]

my opinion is based upon what polygamy is not what you think it is. Again poly and polygamy are not the same lifestyles and there is more to it than the marriage aspect that you keep throwing out there. here since you are having such a hard time, here is a link that may help.

http://www.yourtango.com/experts/mr-mike-hatcher/polyamory-vs-polygamy-what-difference-between-two

I see an article by a self-appointed expert who ignores the actual legal and common definitions of polygamy in favor of prescribing his own narrow and incorrect definition of polygamy that is based upon religious stereotypes.

 

[SMOGZINN]

my opinion is based upon what polygamy is not what you think it is. Again poly and polygamy are not the same lifestyles and there is more to it than the marriage aspect that you keep throwing out there. here since you are having such a hard time, here is a link that may help.

http://www.yourtango.com/experts/mr-mike-hatcher/polyamory-vs-polygamy-what-difference-between-two

I don't know who this Mike Hatcher is but he obviously does not know what he is talking about when it comes to polyamory.
His article is so filled with qualifiers that it means nothing.

It is also worth pointing out that whilst polygamy is often linked to religion, the same cannot be said about polyamory.

Polyamory is often linked to the Pagan religions like Wicca.

polygamy does tend to only refer to the act of a man having more than one wife and it is, therefore, based on gender.

That might be how you and him are used to hearing about it but that is not mean that is all it is. I'm used to only hearing about bacon in reference to eggs, but that doesn't mean BLT's don't exist.

polymory can of course involve people of the same sex as well whereas this won't be possible with polygamy due to its strong links to religion and culture.

There are many religions that allow same sex marriage. Once again he is trying to narrow it down to something done by Mormonism and Islamic religions. Other religions allow both same sex marriage and polygamy. Most Celtic religions, Buddism, and even Hindism (even if India outlawed it).

It is also generally true that polygamy has a tendency to last longer like normal marriages, but with polyamory it is more about the moment and living in it and this means it may last for weeks, months or even years depending on the people involved which is similar to swinger couples or open relationships.

Here his lack of knowledge really shines through. Polyamory means many loves, not many fuck buddies. Poly relationships tend to last a long time. They tend to be marriage like. Yes, sometimes they end, just like any relationship, and there is a dating process with lots of failed relationships, but poly relationships are not about the moment like swing relationships are.

 

[werepossum]

my opinion is based upon what polygamy is not what you think it is. Again poly and polygamy are not the same lifestyles and there is more to it than the marriage aspect that you keep throwing out there. here since you are having such a hard time, here is a link that may help.

http://www.yourtango.com/experts/mr-mike-hatcher/polyamory-vs-polygamy-what-difference-between-two

Smogzinn said "Having been polyamorous for over 20 years, and a leader in the polyamory community, I think I know what I'm talking about." I believe his point is that some percentage of polyamorous people (including apparently most of those he knows) are not polygamous only because polygamy and polyandry are not legal. For those people, polyamory and polygamy/polyandry are synonymous (minus relative genders) with only an artificial separation imposed by the law. I have no idea if that is correct for a majority of (or even for a significant minority of) polyamorous people, but he (or she, I dunno) thinks it is, and knowing zero polyamorous people myself I'm certainly not going to argue the point.