Six Killed, Several Injured in U.S. Shooting in Wisconsin

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Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Shocking. Yet another white male with likely generational ties has not assimilated into modern American society and yet again goes on a shooting spree. How many more people will need to die before something is done? The community needs to do a better job assimilating into America.

Shootings like this are going to be more common as people like this white supremacist resist assimilating into a modern and egalitarian America.

It is going backwards with all the divide and conquer right wing media with followers who dutifully live in their own world. This is a fast track to radicalization and the undermining of a stable democratic society.

It is very out of fashion to be a right wing skin nowadays for youth. That much has improved since I was a kid. We had Nazis all over in the 80s and 90s.

The irony in the whole thing is that the most holier then though righties back then have long since come out of the closet since and accepted being gay, and are normal people now.

We used to joke about the more right wing they are -the less beers skinheads need before they start sieg heiling and blowing one another. Oi Oi!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MkRuV0aCcI
 
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Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
8,140
2,176
136
Shocking. Yet another white male with likely generational ties has not assimilated into modern American society and yet again goes on a shooting spree. How many more people will need to die before something is done? The community needs to do a better job assimilating into America.

Shootings like this are going to be more common as people like this white supremacist resist assimilating into a modern and egalitarian America.


How do you propose we assimilate people like this?
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
I'm not making light of this tragedy, but I will make light of the leftist response to it. Every year we have between 100,000 and 195,000 accidental and preventable deaths every year in hospitals.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/11856.php

The HealthGrades Patient Safety in American Hospitals study is the first to look at the mortality and economic impact of medical errors and injuries that occurred during Medicare hospital admissions nationwide from 2000 to 2002. The HealthGrades study applied the mortality and economic impact models developed by Dr. Chunliu Zhan and Dr. Marlene R. Miller in a research study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) in October of 2003. The Zhan and Miller study supported the Institute of Medicine's (IOM) 1999 report conclusion, which found that medical errors caused up to 98,000 deaths annually and should be considered a national epidemic.

And hospitals aren't even a constitutional right. If you want to take some kind of action to save lives, change your aim to something that can be fixed.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,352
11
0
I'm not making light of this tragedy, but I will make light of the leftist response to it. Every year we have between 100,000 and 195,000 accidental and preventable deaths every year in hospitals.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/11856.php



And hospitals aren't even a constitutional right. If you want to take some kind of action to save lives, change your aim to something that can be fixed.

But we're told by those on the right that health care is too highly regulated and should be deregulated and that tort reform is a must.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
0
I'm not making light of this tragedy, but I will make light of the leftist response to it. Every year we have between 100,000 and 195,000 accidental and preventable deaths every year in hospitals.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/11856.php



And hospitals aren't even a constitutional right. If you want to take some kind of action to save lives, change your aim to something that can be fixed.

The thing is this: any large organization or undertaking will have "casualties" so to speak.

Hospitals do the best they can but they still have deaths from accidental infection or human error.

Now, guns you have casualties like the Sikh shooting or Aurora and more...and for what? It's for some dumb-shit fantasy that itself is fascist (overthrowing a government by citizens holding guns...likely because they're outraged about like abortion or gay marriage), or wildly delusional (some paranoid codger thinking that random strangers actually care enough about him to mess with him).

I get that guns are "cool" but they also make it too easy to kill other people. It's just a hobby, no different from motorcycles, and given the multitude of public shootings recently, I think it's time to round them up and melt them down.
 
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TerryMathews

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,473
2
0
The thing is this: any large organization or undertaking will have "casualties" so to speak.

Hospitals do the best they can but they still have deaths from accidental infection or human error.

Now, guns you have casualties like the Sikh shooting or Aurora and more...and for what? It's for some dumb-shit fantasy that itself is fascist (overthrowing a government by citizens holding guns...likely because they're outraged about like abortion or gay marriage), or wildly delusional (some paranoid codger thinking that random strangers actually care enough about him to mess with him).

I get that guns are "cool" but they also make it too easy to kill other people. It's just a hobby, no different from motorcycles, and given the multitude of public shootings recently, I think it's time to round them up and melt them down.

So what Karmy, ban everything that could possibly kill people a la Buckyballs? No thanks.

If you want to live the 1984 society, please feel free to move to England. I here they've recently made thinking differently illegal. (www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-17515992)
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
So what Karmy, ban everything that could possibly kill people a la Buckyballs? No thanks.

If you want to live the 1984 society, please feel free to move to England. I here they've recently made thinking differently illegal. (www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-17515992)

No, just ban everything that doesn't have significant/positive impact to people's life that could possibly kill people. Like everything else, just do a quick benefit cost analysis and ban those that costs more than it benefits.

What can automatic/assault weapon add to your life? Seriously? You cannot hunt a duck with just a plain old rifle?
 

TerryMathews

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,473
2
0
No, just ban everything that doesn't have significant/positive impact to people's life that could possibly kill people. Like everything else, just do a quick benefit cost analysis and ban those that costs more than it benefits.

What can automatic/assault weapon add to your life? Seriously? You cannot hunt a duck with just a plain old rifle?

None of these recent crimes used automatic weapons.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
0
No, just ban everything that doesn't have significant/positive impact to people's life that could possibly kill people. Like everything else, just do a quick benefit cost analysis and ban those that costs more than it benefits.

What can automatic/assault weapon add to your life? Seriously? You cannot hunt a duck with just a plain old rifle?

Lots of shithead kids come out of high school indoctrinated to "oppose tyranny" after reading 1984, which is a work of art created by an artist and nothing else.

Reality: the world is indifferent. No one is out to "get you".

We have seem the social costs of these weapons in these two shootings, not to mention scores of others through the years, from Loughner to Cho to Nidal Hassan. It's not worthwhile. They're just toys for stupid people.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
Waiting periods make absolute sense... because criminals are most likely to buy their guns from a retail store like Walmart...

Oh wait... no they dont.:\

Name a mass shooter that hasn't bought or gotten their guns legally.
 

micrometers

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2010
3,473
0
0
Waiting periods probably have decreased instances of shootings.

To deal with mass shooters though, I think a blanket restriction on semi-automatic weapons is needed. I would fully support it also.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
No, just ban everything that doesn't have significant/positive impact to people's life that could possibly kill people. Like everything else, just do a quick benefit cost analysis and ban those that costs more than it benefits.

What can automatic/assault weapon add to your life? Seriously? You cannot hunt a duck with just a plain old rifle?

You apparently want to ban humans. Humans are the cause of most of humanity's suffering and woe. Banning humans would be a big win for the Earth.
 

TerryMathews

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,473
2
0
Lots of shithead kids come out of high school indoctrinated to "oppose tyranny" after reading 1984, which is a work of art created by an artist and nothing else.

Reality: the world is indifferent. No one is out to "get you".

We have seem the social costs of these weapons in these two shootings, not to mention scores of others through the years, from Loughner to Cho to Nidal Hassan. It's not worthwhile. They're just toys for stupid people.

So your solution is to ban semi-automatic pistols, rifles, and shotguns?

No matter what you ban, someone who wants to kill will find a tool. Repeating rifle. Revolver. Pipebomb.

You'll have to roll us back to muskets to truly get to a less effective weapon.

When mass murderers begin running people over with SUVs will you advocate for banning them too? Nobody really needs one, right?

You can't eliminate everything dangerous from the world, no matter how hard you try.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Waiting periods probably have decreased instances of shootings.

To deal with mass shooters though, I think a blanket restriction on semi-automatic weapons is needed. I would fully support it also.

Yeah, lets ban 150 year old guns simply because they do not have to have every shot individually loaded.

Wait, lets not let paranoia and fear control us and make us call for the banning of guns. No need to let fear and paranoia control us, like you want. Overcome your fear instead and abandon your foolish position.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,547
651
126
Gunman who opened fire in Wisconsin Sikh temple exhorted other white supremacists to act

OAK CREEK, Wis. - Wade Michael Page played in white supremacist heavy metal bands and posted frequent comments on Internet forums for skinheads, repeatedly exhorting members to act more decisively to support their cause.

"If you are wanting to meet people, get involved and become active," he wrote last year. "Stop hiding behind the computer or making excuses."

A day after Page strode into a Sikh temple with a 9mm handgun and multiple magazines of ammunition, authorities were trying to determine if the 40-year-old Army veteran was taking his own advice when he opened fire on total strangers in a house of worship.

Detectives cautioned they might never know for sure. But the picture of Page that began to develop Monday — found in dark corners of the Internet, in records from a dodgy Army career and throughout a life lived on the margins — suggested he was a white supremacist who wanted to see his beliefs advanced with action.

Page, who was shot to death by police, described himself as a member of the "Hammerskins Nation," a skinhead group rooted in Texas that has branches in Australia and Canada, according to the SITE Monitoring Service, a Maryland-based private intelligence firm that searches the Internet for extremist activity.

Between March 2010 and the middle of this year, Page posted 250 messages on one skinhead site and appeared eager to recruit others. In March 2011, he advertised for a "family friendly" barbecue in North Carolina, imploring others to attend.

In November, Page challenged a poster who indicated he would leave the United States if Herman Cain was elected president.

"Stand and fight, don't run," he implored.

In an April message, Page said: "Passive submission is indirect support to the oppressors. Stand up for yourself and live the 14 words," a reference to a common white supremacists mantra.

The bald, heavily tattooed bassist trained in psychological warfare before he was demoted and discharged more than a decade ago. After leaving the military, he became active in the obscure underworld of white supremacist music, playing in bands with names such as Definite Hate and End Apathy.

Still, Oak Creek Police Chief John Edwards cautioned Monday that investigators might never know for certain what motivated the attack on the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin in suburban Milwaukee. So far, no hate-filled manifesto has emerged, nor any angry blog or ranting Facebook entries.

"We have a lot of information to decipher, to put it all together before we can positively tell you what that motive is — if we can determine that," Edwards said.

Mark Potok, a senior fellow at the Southern Poverty Law Center, a non-profit civil rights organization in Montgomery, Ala., described Page as a "frustrated neo-Nazi" whose bands' sinister-sounding names seemed to "reflect what he went out and actually did."

Their lyrics talked about genocide against Jews and other minorities.

In a 2010 interview, Page told a white supremacist website that he became active in white-power music in 2000, when he left his native Colorado and started the band End Apathy in 2005 in Nashville, N.C.

Across several states, fragments of Page's life emerged Monday in public records and interviews.

He joined the military in Milwaukee in 1992 and was a repairman for the Hawk missile system before switching jobs to become an Army psychological operations specialist in a battalion at Fort Bragg, N.C.

In "psy-ops," Page would have trained to host public meetings between locals and American forces, use leaflet campaigns in a conflict zone or use loudspeakers to communicate with enemy soldiers.

He never deployed overseas in that role, Army spokesman George Wright said.

Page was demoted in June 1998 for getting drunk on duty and going AWOL, two defence officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to release information about the gunman.

Page also received extra duty and was fined. The defence officials said they had no other details about the incident, such as how long Page was gone or whether he turned himself in. He was discharged later that same year.

Page bought a brick ranch house outside Fayetteville, N.C., in 2007 with help from a Veterans Administration mortgage. But on Monday the home was boarded up with knee-high weeds in the yard. A notice taped to the front indicated the home was in foreclosure and had been sold to a bank in January.

Before buying the home, Page lived with Army soldier Darren Shearlock, his wife and young children in a doublewide trailer in a rural community near Fort Bragg, records show.

Shearlock, dressed in his military fatigues, declined to comment about Page or the shooting when approached Monday by The Associated Press.

Page's former stepmother said she was devastated to learn of the bloodshed.

"He was a precious little boy, and that's what my mind keeps going back to," said Laura Page, of Denver, who was divorced from Page's father around 2001.

In Wisconsin, Page responded to a recent online ad seeking a roommate in Cudahy, a small city outside Milwaukee.

He rented a room in Kurt Weins' house in June, telling Wein he had recently broken up with his girlfriend and needed a place to stay.

Weins said Page stayed in that room all the time, declining invitations to watch TV with him. Page explained that he wanted to bring some belongings out of storage, so he rented an apartment several weeks later in a duplex owned by Weins across the street.

"We talked, but it was really about nothing," Weins said. "He seemed pretty calm. He didn't seem like the type to raise his voice."

After the FBI searched the apartment in the duplex, Weins returned and found only a computer desk, chair and an inflatable mattress.

Suburban Milwaukee police had no contact with Page before Sunday, and his record gave no indication he was capable of such intense violence.

The FBI was leading the investigation because the shooting was considered domestic terrorism. The agency said it had no reason to believe anyone other than Page was involved.

Page entered the temple as several dozen people prepared for Sunday services. He opened fire without saying a word.

The president of the temple died defending the house of worship he founded.

Satwant Singh Kaleka, 65, managed to find a simple butter knife in the temple and attempted to stab the gunman before being shot twice, his son said Monday.

Amardeep Singh Kaleka said FBI agents hugged him, shook his hand and told him his father was a hero.

"Whatever time he spent in that struggle gave the women time to get cover" in the kitchen, Kaleka said.

With their turbans and long beards, Sikhs are often mistaken for Muslims or Arabs, and have inadvertently become targets of anti-Muslim bias in the United States.

Federal officials said the gun used in the attack had been legally purchased. Page had been licensed to own weapons since at least 2008, when he paid $5 each for five pistol-purchase permits in North Carolina.

The six dead ranged in age from 39 to 84 years old. Three people were critically wounded, including a police officer.

Online records show Page had a brief criminal history in other states, including pleading guilty to misdemeanour criminal mischief after a 1994 arrest in El Paso, Texas, for getting drunk and kicking holes in the wall of a bar. He received six months' probation.

Page also pleaded guilty to driving under the influence in Colorado in 1999 but never completed a sentence that included alcohol treatment, records show.

He was arrested on suspicion of drunken driving again in 2010 in North Carolina after running his car off the side of a highway. The case was dropped a year later for lack of evidence, according to court records.
 

FDF12389

Diamond Member
Sep 8, 2005
5,234
7
76
No, just ban everything that doesn't have significant/positive impact to people's life that could possibly kill people. Like everything else, just do a quick benefit cost analysis and ban those that costs more than it benefits.

What can automatic/assault weapon add to your life? Seriously? You cannot hunt a duck with just a plain old rifle?

ahahhahahahahhahaha.

Keep being dumb. Please, it's hilarious. You don't hunt birds with rifles.
 

FDF12389

Diamond Member
Sep 8, 2005
5,234
7
76
Because a handgun that takes 10-15 round magazines functionally isn't too different from an AR15, except for a shorter barrel and various grips.

And it uses a completely different cartridge and caliber.

But hey, you obviously don't know shit about guns. I suggest you go the range a few times and check them out. You may end up getting one for yourself.
 

Connoisseur

Platinum Member
Sep 14, 2002
2,471
1
81
Is anybody else disturbed by the fact that this really isn't front page news in most news outlets anymore? I mean, I'm not RATING one mass murder versus another but the Colorado massacre seemed to be on the front pages for a couple of weeks at least. I can barely find a reference to this shooting anymore in ANY front page (except small references in CNN) and it's been less than a week.

FYI, i'm not Sikh; i'm just surprised that comparable events are getting such disparate coverage... or maybe i'm not.
 
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