Six Muslim imams removed from U.S. airliner

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magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
Originally posted by: dna
Omar Shahin, spokesman for 6 imams removed from flight, doubted Muslims were behind 9/11 and admitted ties to Osama

.... although I doubt that these kind of fellas would actually carry an attack -- they are more likely to "delegate" that sort of activity to one of their underlings.

Fair enough but even your site said these connections were in the early 90s when he was viewed as a "freedom fighter"...and it says, " but that was during the Cold War when U..S. intelligence agencies were encouraging support for Bin Laden".
Just because at one point he supported Bin Laden does NOT mean that he was looking to high jack a plane or that he would have done anything along those lines such as try to organize a plot as you try to insinuate...unless you could of course define how you know "these guys" would delegate that stuff, especially when they come back from a meeting in which they discuss a way to protect their children from radicalization

The story is simply mis leading as much as a title saying, "Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of War for the United States, doubted Iraqis would rise up against Coalition forces, and admmited ties to Saddam Hussien"


EDIT:

A lot of this fear reminds me of this comic Steelplerot once posted

http://www.workingforchange.com/webgraphics/wfc/TMW09-27-06.jpg
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,577
4,659
136
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: tvarad
BoberFett writes:

"I'm more curious whether they see the bogeyman when they look under their bed. "

Look. I know that for muslims, flying planes into buildings where thousands of people work is just another day at the office, but for us normal people it is still a cathartic experience. Yes, even five years later.
Do you still fear Japanese people as well? It's only been 70 years since Pearl Harbor.






It's the year 2011 already?

I knew I shouldn't have taken that Ambien.

:shocked:
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Originally posted by: feralkid
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: tvarad
BoberFett writes:

"I'm more curious whether they see the bogeyman when they look under their bed. "

Look. I know that for muslims, flying planes into buildings where thousands of people work is just another day at the office, but for us normal people it is still a cathartic experience. Yes, even five years later.
Do you still fear Japanese people as well? It's only been 70 years since Pearl Harbor.






It's the year 2011 already?

I knew I shouldn't have taken that Ambien.

:shocked:

Ambien. Talk to your doctor about whether it's right for you. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, blood clots, and waking up with a four foot long beard.
 

daniel49

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2005
4,814
0
71
Originally posted by: magomago
Originally posted by: dna
Omar Shahin, spokesman for 6 imams removed from flight, doubted Muslims were behind 9/11 and admitted ties to Osama

.... although I doubt that these kind of fellas would actually carry an attack -- they are more likely to "delegate" that sort of activity to one of their underlings.

Fair enough but even your site said these connections were in the early 90s when he was viewed as a "freedom fighter"...and it says, " but that was during the Cold War when U..S. intelligence agencies were encouraging support for Bin Laden".
Just because at one point he supported Bin Laden does NOT mean that he was looking to high jack a plane or that he would have done anything along those lines such as try to organize a plot as you try to insinuate...unless you could of course define how you know "these guys" would delegate that stuff, especially when they come back from a meeting in which they discuss a way to protect their children from radicalization

The story is simply mis leading as much as a title saying, "Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of War for the United States, doubted Iraqis would rise up against Coalition forces, and admmited ties to Saddam Hussien"


EDIT:

A lot of this fear reminds me of this comic Steelplerot once posted

http://www.workingforchange.com/webgraphics/wfc/TMW09-27-06.jpg

magomago; usually I view your posts on the Muslum faith as fairly objective and straightforward, ( unlike some others who will remain nameless) but using a cartoon from california's very own village idiot does nothing to strenghen your case.
You might want to use other sources.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Originally posted by: daniel49
magomago; usually I view your posts on the Muslum faith as fairly objective and straightforward, ( unlike some others who will remain nameless) but using a cartoon from california's very own village idiot does nothing to strenghen your case.
You might want to use other sources.
Regardless of the source, you've gotta admit that comic is pretty funny.
 

Doboji

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
7,912
0
76

The extent of my prejudice against Muslims:

I assume when I meet a muslim from the United States... that they are likely sympathetic to the "plight" of the Palestinians, and they are not sympathetic to the "plight" of the Israelis... <snip>


And so it goes without saying that you find it equally troubling, of course, if a jew from the United states is only sympathetic to the "plight" of the Israelis and not to the "plight" of the Palestinians... right?

Well no... I am a Jew from the United States who is sympathetic to the "plight" of the Israelis, and not as much the "plight" of the Palestinians... My point is though, that my political leanings and Muslim political leanings are in conflict.


Of course it is wrong to judge an individual by prejudiced assumptions... and I don't... I wait for a person to show what they believe before I draw my conclusions.


Uh huh...

Yes... because until my prejudices are proven correct, I must operate as if they are incorrect.

Prejudice is a natural human phenomenon... EVERYONE does it... it must be overridden by our conscious mind. Which is exactly what I do.

But only a fool can't see that there is an OBVIOUS cultural/political/religious rift between the Muslim and Western world... split very clearly on the line between Muslim and non-Muslim. We can play the PC game as long as we want... pretent that this rift doesnt exist... pretend that by looking at Muslims on a plane as different than non-muslims is somehow discriminatory, or racist... but the reality is, that their "muslim" identity, and our "non-muslim" identity is the crux of the rift, and SHOULD be dealt with suspiciously.


Well thank goodness you don't judge any individuals by "prejudiced assumptions."

Being suspicious != judging... note I didn't advocate dragging the 6 muslims in this story off to jail... I said their situation warranted a little extra examination.


It is not enough to say well only a small number of Muslims partake in terrorism... this is true there's probably no more than 10-20 million Muslims actively involved in terrorism on some level... thats a mere 1% of the Muslim population... but how many muslims support this 1% financially?... more than you'd think... how many muslims support these terrorists emotionally the same way we support our troops? more than you'd think.


So based on your statistics, 20 million muslims are terrorists and a good chunk of the other 1.2 billion are terrorist sympathizers. Gotcha.

Do you consider Tim Mcveigh a "christian terrorist?" How about Baruch Goldstein? Was he a "jewish terrorist?" Or were they just nutjobs who happened to be of those faiths? How about the fact that former prime ministers of Israel, Yitzhak Shamir and Menachim Begin, had previously been leaders of terrorist organizations and that Ariel Sharon had been found guilty of war crimes by an Israeli court? Is it safe to assume that you find those as troubling as, say, Hamas and Hezbollah being elected to represent Palestinians and Lebanese? Are those also evidence of "more [people] than you'd think" supporting "jewish terrorism?"

How about the facts that David Duke was elected to the Louisiana State Senate and got 44% of the vote when he ran for Senate in 1990? Does that not demonstrate a hotbed of terrorist sympathizers in Louisiana?

The likes of Mcveigh is certainly an issue... David Duke is certainly an issue... but as for Goldstein and Sharon... I think most people are hardly afraid of radical Israelis blowing up american aircraft in order to kill as many innocent americans as possible....

Don't believe me?... go pick up a muslim newspaper from your local community, and get yourself a translator... you can see pretty quickly where the allegiances fall.

A "muslim newspaper?" I'm curious... what do you consider a "muslim newspaper?" Would its analogue be, say, the Christian Science Monitor or the New York Times for "christian newspapers?" Haaretz and Jerusalem Times for "jewish newspapers? and so on? More importantly, if I find a story in any US newspaper or any christian or jewish newspaper that puts anything else above loyalty to the US, do I get to declare all adherents of the faith to be universally in line with that ideology?

The issue as it pertains to your clearly unbiased and unprejudiced assessments, Doboji, is not your dislike of people who are muslim and who are terrorists; it's your inability to separate the one from the other. If a muslim does something you dislike, it says something about islam, whereas if a jew or christian or buddhist or whatever does something you dislike, I'll wager, you're better able to separate the religion from the deed. And you have a right to be prejudiced, by the way. But quit kidding yourself that your assessments are in any way unbiased and free of "prejudiced assumptions" because they're not... and neither are many other people's.

What I mean by a "Muslim Newspaper" is a locally produced weekly, or monthly written by members of the local community... go to your local Mosque... you will find it there. not on the scale of the CSM or Washington Post...

You will find in it articles about the "gaza massacre" charities helping Palestinians, you will also likely find community actions to stop the war in Iraq, and possibly afghanistan... you will find lots of anti-Bush articles... you won't find any articles condemning the actions of terrorists in Iraq... or Palestinian terrorists... or praising American actions of any kind in Iraq.

Then go beyond americas borders... read Muslim newspapers from elsewhere in the world... and don't be surprised when you still find op-eds accusing Israel or Bush of conducting 9/11...

First of all I believe I began my post: "The extent of my prejudice against Muslims: "

So I never professed to have an unbiased view of Muslims...

Second of all, I do not dislike Muslims, or Islam for that matter. I am however, politically, at odds with the overwhelming majority of Muslims. So are most non-muslim Americans, whether you realize it or not.

-Max
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Originally posted by: dna
Are you part of the Aimster-cult, for whom only the BBC counts as a valid source?

credible sources only

this is the Internet.

anyone can make a webpage.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,577
4,659
136
Originally posted by: daniel49
Originally posted by: magomago
Originally posted by: dna
Omar Shahin, spokesman for 6 imams removed from flight, doubted Muslims were behind 9/11 and admitted ties to Osama

.... although I doubt that these kind of fellas would actually carry an attack -- they are more likely to "delegate" that sort of activity to one of their underlings.

Fair enough but even your site said these connections were in the early 90s when he was viewed as a "freedom fighter"...and it says, " but that was during the Cold War when U..S. intelligence agencies were encouraging support for Bin Laden".
Just because at one point he supported Bin Laden does NOT mean that he was looking to high jack a plane or that he would have done anything along those lines such as try to organize a plot as you try to insinuate...unless you could of course define how you know "these guys" would delegate that stuff, especially when they come back from a meeting in which they discuss a way to protect their children from radicalization

The story is simply mis leading as much as a title saying, "Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of War for the United States, doubted Iraqis would rise up against Coalition forces, and admmited ties to Saddam Hussien"


EDIT:

A lot of this fear reminds me of this comic Steelplerot once posted

http://www.workingforchange.com/webgraphics/wfc/TMW09-27-06.jpg

magomago; usually I view your posts on the Muslum faith as fairly objective and straightforward, ( unlike some others who will remain nameless) but using a cartoon from california's very own village idiot does nothing to strenghen your case.
You might want to use other sources.

Nor does trashing the cartoonist help your case.


:roll:
 

daniel49

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2005
4,814
0
71
Originally posted by: feralkid
Originally posted by: daniel49
Originally posted by: magomago
Originally posted by: dna
Omar Shahin, spokesman for 6 imams removed from flight, doubted Muslims were behind 9/11 and admitted ties to Osama

.... although I doubt that these kind of fellas would actually carry an attack -- they are more likely to "delegate" that sort of activity to one of their underlings.

Fair enough but even your site said these connections were in the early 90s when he was viewed as a "freedom fighter"...and it says, " but that was during the Cold War when U..S. intelligence agencies were encouraging support for Bin Laden".
Just because at one point he supported Bin Laden does NOT mean that he was looking to high jack a plane or that he would have done anything along those lines such as try to organize a plot as you try to insinuate...unless you could of course define how you know "these guys" would delegate that stuff, especially when they come back from a meeting in which they discuss a way to protect their children from radicalization

The story is simply mis leading as much as a title saying, "Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of War for the United States, doubted Iraqis would rise up against Coalition forces, and admmited ties to Saddam Hussien"


EDIT:

A lot of this fear reminds me of this comic Steelplerot once posted

http://www.workingforchange.com/webgraphics/wfc/TMW09-27-06.jpg

magomago; usually I view your posts on the Muslum faith as fairly objective and straightforward, ( unlike some others who will remain nameless) but using a cartoon from california's very own village idiot does nothing to strenghen your case.
You might want to use other sources.

Nor does trashing the cartoonist help your case.


:roll:

I wasn't referring to the cartoonist genius.
 

imported_dna

Golden Member
Aug 14, 2006
1,755
0
0
Originally posted by: Aimster
credible sources only

this is the Internet.

anyone can make a webpage.

The BBC has definitely proved that with a recent piece noted at LGF. They're so busy being subjective, that they don't have any time left to double-check what they publish.

EDIT: BTW, if we were only to accept news only from sources you deem as "credible", we might have been under the impession that Beirut was reduced to a heap of rubble, and that no ambulances were left in Lebanon. Yep, nothing like those credible sources.....
 

sierrita

Senior member
Mar 24, 2002
929
0
0
Originally posted by: daniel49



"using a cartoon from california's very own village idiot does nothing to strenghen your case."


"I wasn't referring to the cartoonist genius".




Gee, how could anyone misinterpret that?



 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,577
4,659
136
Originally posted by: daniel49
Originally posted by: feralkid
Originally posted by: daniel49
Originally posted by: magomago
Originally posted by: dna
Omar Shahin, spokesman for 6 imams removed from flight, doubted Muslims were behind 9/11 and admitted ties to Osama

.... although I doubt that these kind of fellas would actually carry an attack -- they are more likely to "delegate" that sort of activity to one of their underlings.

Fair enough but even your site said these connections were in the early 90s when he was viewed as a "freedom fighter"...and it says, " but that was during the Cold War when U..S. intelligence agencies were encouraging support for Bin Laden".
Just because at one point he supported Bin Laden does NOT mean that he was looking to high jack a plane or that he would have done anything along those lines such as try to organize a plot as you try to insinuate...unless you could of course define how you know "these guys" would delegate that stuff, especially when they come back from a meeting in which they discuss a way to protect their children from radicalization

The story is simply mis leading as much as a title saying, "Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of War for the United States, doubted Iraqis would rise up against Coalition forces, and admmited ties to Saddam Hussien"


EDIT:

A lot of this fear reminds me of this comic Steelplerot once posted

http://www.workingforchange.com/webgraphics/wfc/TMW09-27-06.jpg

magomago; usually I view your posts on the Muslum faith as fairly objective and straightforward, ( unlike some others who will remain nameless) but using a cartoon from california's very own village idiot does nothing to strenghen your case.
You might want to use other sources.

Nor does trashing the cartoonist help your case.


:roll:

I wasn't referring to the cartoonist genius.

It sure looks like it. Please explain why "a cartoon from california's own village idiot"
isn't calling the cartoonist "california's own village idiot"?

 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Originally posted by: myocardia
Originally posted by: yllus
As much as it sucks to say this because I am the dude who's going to get profiled, if three or four guys start praying on an airplane that I'm on and move to seats not their own for unknown reasons, you bet your ass I'm notifying someone. This is definitely a case of better safe than sorry.
Thank you. I noticed how your post has been completely ignored by both sides in this argument. If you weren't born in America, welcome. I'd sit next to you, anytime, anywhere, and I'm sure we'd probably have alot to talk about.
Meh, no big deal. Sensible posts tend to get overlooked online. I do my share of purposeful trolling to even it out anyways.

Unfortunately like Doboji I too have found that the majority of Muslims who actually pay attention to politics that I've encountered both in North America do engage in an illogical dislike of the U.S. and its citizens. Note the italicized though - like most ethnic groups, the majority of people simply are uncaring or ignorant of world events to begin with.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
Yes but yllus like you stated, shouldn't we look at it in terms of a bigger picture? Right now the US's crediblity around the world, whether we Americans (although I know you've stated you are a Canadian) like it or not, absolutely sucks. So most people have this dislike of the US based on its foreign policy...and regretfully it filters down to the actual citizens, even if 49% of the electore didn't vote for the current President (note: this isn't a jab at Bush at all, as he did win the election, but I'm pointing out the obvious)

So, like you said, how would this be any different among Muslims?

And of course among Arab communities we would EXPECT it to be even lower smply because we suport and aid their oppressive dictators. Even when we have tried to "spread" democracy....we have many issues such as dealing with the (regretfully real) image of carpetbagging Iraq.


But I would ask you yllus - why would you be so overly concerned about a few people praying? I would think you would know what they are doing due to your background. Would it be praying that is the trigger to you....or the fact that they did not sit in the proper seats that would have pulled the trigger?
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
2
61
I propose a new law. No praying in public. One should only be able to pray in their appropriate church, or their own home.
 

tvarad

Golden Member
Jun 25, 2001
1,130
0
0
magomago writes:

"And of course among Arab communities we would EXPECT it to be even lower smply because we suport and aid their oppressive dictators. Even when we have tried to "spread" democracy....we have manys issues such as dealing with the (regretfully real) image of carpetbagging Iraq. "

You talk as if the Middle East is a an ocean of reason being roiled by big, bad unreasonable U.S.A. The truth is that it's a tribal backwater which has been thrust onto the world stage because of oil. And most of the Arabs complaining about U.S. support for dictators are akin to the jealous cousins who can't stand the fact that they've made it good on the inherited family property.

As far as Iraq is concerned, muslims slaughtering each other like sheep provides a glimpse of what the world is up against when dealing with them.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
tvarad:

The situation that the middle east is in is not EXCLUSIVELY due to us. that would be ridiculous to assume- and I was dicussing with yylus as to reasons why ARABS may have problems with the United States...I suggest you re read what I write first.

As for your second part...I point to towards what I wrote earlier in Christians slaughtering eachother.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Originally posted by: dna
Originally posted by: Aimster
credible sources only

this is the Internet.

anyone can make a webpage.

The BBC has definitely proved that with a recent piece noted at LGF. They're so busy being subjective, that they don't have any time left to double-check what they publish.

EDIT: BTW, if we were only to accept news only from sources you deem as "credible", we might have been under the impession that Beirut was reduced to a heap of rubble, and that no ambulances were left in Lebanon. Yep, nothing like those credible sources.....

My point is

BBC for example is a better source than let's say Israeldailyherald.com for example

or ... BBC is a better source than let's say jihadwatch.com

If BBC says something different from those 2 sources then I would def. trust the BBC over those 2 websites 99.9% of the world has never heard of.
 

daniel49

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2005
4,814
0
71
Originally posted by: feralkid
Originally posted by: daniel49
Originally posted by: feralkid
Originally posted by: daniel49
Originally posted by: magomago
Originally posted by: dna
Omar Shahin, spokesman for 6 imams removed from flight, doubted Muslims were behind 9/11 and admitted ties to Osama

.... although I doubt that these kind of fellas would actually carry an attack -- they are more likely to "delegate" that sort of activity to one of their underlings.

Fair enough but even your site said these connections were in the early 90s when he was viewed as a "freedom fighter"...and it says, " but that was during the Cold War when U..S. intelligence agencies were encouraging support for Bin Laden".
Just because at one point he supported Bin Laden does NOT mean that he was looking to high jack a plane or that he would have done anything along those lines such as try to organize a plot as you try to insinuate...unless you could of course define how you know "these guys" would delegate that stuff, especially when they come back from a meeting in which they discuss a way to protect their children from radicalization

The story is simply mis leading as much as a title saying, "Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of War for the United States, doubted Iraqis would rise up against Coalition forces, and admmited ties to Saddam Hussien"


EDIT:

A lot of this fear reminds me of this comic Steelplerot once posted

http://www.workingforchange.com/webgraphics/wfc/TMW09-27-06.jpg

magomago; usually I view your posts on the Muslum faith as fairly objective and straightforward, ( unlike some others who will remain nameless) but using a cartoon from california's very own village idiot does nothing to strenghen your case.
You might want to use other sources.

Nor does trashing the cartoonist help your case.


:roll:

I wasn't referring to the cartoonist genius.

It sure looks like it. Please explain why "a cartoon from california's own village idiot"
isn't calling the cartoonist "california's own village idiot"?


Very well i'll talk very slowly the cartoon was first shown to magomago by someone...hint hint
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,330
1,203
126
Originally posted by: bamacre
I propose a new law. No praying in public. One should only be able to pray in their appropriate church, or their own home.


I'm pretty sure Muslims are allowed to pray silently. Freedom of Speech and Religion doesn't mean you can go around causing public disturbances. If you do not comply with Flight Crews, it is a Federal Offense.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Originally posted by: brandonbull
Originally posted by: bamacre
I propose a new law. No praying in public. One should only be able to pray in their appropriate church, or their own home.


I'm pretty sure Muslims are allowed to pray silently. Freedom of Speech and Religion doesn't mean you can go around causing public disturbances. If you do not comply with Flight Crews, it is a Federal Offense.

Read the story and stop making up facts which fit your agenda, sparky. They were praying in the terminal. Flight crews had nothing to do with it. Besides, just because you're on a plane does not mean your constitutionally protected right to free speech is nullified. If anything, the joker who reported these "suspicous" men was the one causing a public disturbance by riling up the local bigots.
 

tvarad

Golden Member
Jun 25, 2001
1,130
0
0
"Read the story and stop making up facts which fit your agenda, sparky. They were praying in the terminal. Flight crews had nothing to do with it. Besides, just because you're on a plane does not mean your constitutionally protected right to free speech is nullified. If anything, the joker who reported these "suspicous" men was the one causing a public disturbance by riling up the local bigots."

Boberferret:
Are you a retard or something? Except for you and one or two others, no one else sees this as a free speech issue; rather they see it as a survival issue on the part of the people who complained. Not just on this board but everywhere that it is being discussed. Suspension of the sense of judgement may come naturally to muslims who think that original thought died with muhammed, but not for the rest of us.

As long as your muslim compatriots keep coming up with headlines like the one below, you are going to see headlines like the one that started this article.

Attack on Baghdad Shiite slum kills 161

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Sunni Muslim insurgents blew up five car bombs and fired mortars into Baghdad's largest Shiite district Thursday, killing at least 161 people and wounding 257 in a dramatic attack that sent the U.S. ambassador racing to meet with Iraqi leaders in an effort to contain the growing sectarian war.
 
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