SLI and the Scam behind it

[Whitewolf]

Originally posted by: aeternitas
3. The Ultra to SLi is great and all, and it really made me lean twords ultra, but the thing is, its not full Sli. 4xpcie is a bottleneck, and if Im going to ever do full on two cards, I want no bottleneck, especially if SLi isnt going to cost more than ~$30 of Ultra.

Just wanted to correct you here aeternitas. A modded Ultra becomes a fully capable SLI chipset that can re-adjust the lanes exactly like an original one. You can have 16x + 1(or 2 or 4 or whatever)x or in dual mode 8x + 8x. This of course happens only on motherboards where their manufacturers have copied the SLI slot design on both SLI and Ultra models like DFI. On those mobos there is no thing such as semi or full sli. That was a terminology before the mod was known. Read Anand's article it clearly states that.

And now on general. Although I know it sucks to pay a $50 premium on nvidia for SLI when you are infact getting exatly the same chip, think about all the R&D and driver creation costs for the SLI technology. Who is gonna pay these things? Certainly not the Ultra owners! It's better to price 150 the Ultra and 200 the SLI than price 175 (or 200!) the Ultra and the same for SLI (thus making them the same product with name changes between them).

SLI for me is like the FX cpus. If you have the money to spend on them then by all means go for it. You 'll have the performance of tommorow, today. If you don't then stay away of it and don't bash others who chose to adapt it.

 

[rfs830]

I like sli. For me as a person that dose not upgrade for like every 3 years it good. Right now I only have a gf3 gti card. I would like to get a nice sli board and with 1 6800gt card and then 5months downdown the road get another and I will be set for like 3 years. Im planing on setting up a a64000 setup. This will last a long time for my computer and gaming needs

 

[mooncancook]

well, SLI is not for everyone. but for those who wants SLI, they know what they are getting into.

Personally I think SLI is good for manufaturers and consumers. For manufacturers they can sell more graphic cards (2 per system instead of 1), for consumers, there are more options in upgrading. Anyway here are some reasons why i chose SLI:

1. It's not really that expensive. I found the Asus A8N-SLI for $175 (though backorder). It cost just $40 more and that's easy enough to swallow (i wouldn't consider it if it cost $80 more)

2. A board with SLI capability should have better resale value (though only time will tell)

3. I don't have to spend $400 for a X800 or GF6800 now. I can spend just $200 for a GF6600 now and it'll be perfect for what i need now. And later when I get a larger monitor and i want to run games at 1600x1200 then i can add another GF6600. hopefully by then it'll drop to around $100. It's tought to cough up $400 for a graphic card to play games (you can probably get both PSP and PS2 and they'll last longer than the graphic card)

I am still quite skeptical about SLI since hardware technology and price can change so quickly. But spending an extra $40 for a peace of mind is worth it to me even if i don't use SLI.

 

[flexy]

Originally posted by: friedrice
The big point is, why get SLI now, when you can spend $400 in 6 months to 1 year and get the newest Geforce card, which will beat a SLI set up.

because Nvidia says so Rmember: its an Nvidia chipset, and ONLY Nvidia cards are able to run SLI

So..kiddies....go out and buy...buuyyy......buuuuuyyyyy


(btw. as for my part, i'll be very happy with my dfi nf 4 ultra, NO sli and X850XT PE and a few months down the road R520)

You know you are lying to yourself justifying a SLI purchase with "its future proof"....not in a market where there is a new generation every 6 months....in 6 months/one year/TWO years...do you think you will be happy upgrading by getting the same old card ?


Also..the SLI argument (performance ?) totally eludes me....if i get any high end card right now, eg. X800XT, X850XT, 6800 Ultra....the FPS will be enough for ALL current and games in the NEAR future. SLI gives you...say max. 70% more performance in raw FPS....in SOME games....in some games it doesnt do anything.

Its just *dumb* from an economic point of view..and i dont think it has to do with "jealousy"..it just does NOT impress me personally. The tech behind is old/ineffiecient....and (as already said 100 times elswhere) SLI is only a makreting hype by NV to compensate for a current lack and availibility of high-end cards. SLI is a direct result of it. If we had new super great high-end cores out every 6 months (like we had years ago)...noone would care about SLI...we would rather look at the new GPU features than get hyped about SLI.

 

[flexy]

I dont care what is out in 2-3 years... I only want the bragging rights to say im running HL2 1600x1200 4AA 16AF at 1-200 FPS. Is that worth the price I paid??? ABSOFRIGGINLUTELY!

get a X850XT PE ?

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: friedrice
The big point is, why get SLI now, when you can spend $400 in 6 months to 1 year and get the newest Geforce card, which will beat a SLI set up.

i doubt this will happen. A pair of GT's should be faster than anything out for at least 2 years. The jump between now (6800gt) and 2 years ago (9800/9700 pro) was unusual, from what i've seen performance has never doubled in a single generation like it did last time. In a normal generation the change would be more along the lines of r9800 pro to nV6600gt. An sli'ed 9800 pro would be more than competive with a 6600gt.

 

[miketheidiot]

anyways sli is solely for the stupid/extremely wealthy.

 

[amol]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
anyways sli is solely for the stupid/extremely wealthy.

yeah, either getting 2x6600GTs right off the bat or getting 2 6800U's that will be CRUSHED by the next gen card

 

[maverik007]

I am not one for the ATI Versus Nvidia war of words.

However ATI users bashed the FX series Nvidia cards and I have to agree with just cause.

I also agree that Sli being for Nvidia cards only is a gamble we are all taking where we hope that nvidia will contiue to keep up the performance crown, no teh approach where they say we are not that far behind ATI and who cares, we got Sli!!

Then theres the other side, ATI are just about to release a similar (ATI exclusive) set-up, have just added more grunt to the X800 to get the single card crown back using raw power (like Nvidia tried with FX5950 but failed due to image quality).

Saying that Ati still do not have shader model 3 support, will the x850 ultimately fail because of that?

Then there's availability of the cards, X800XT's are hard to find in the UK, I can't find any X850's, meanwhile Nvidia are selling more cards due the the continued success of Sli with PCI-E.

While Ati have been pumping stroids into older technology (no shader 3 support) nvidia are still working 100% on NV50 (and console graphics) which is even newer technology.

Gigabyte have just released Sli on single card (2xGPU on on card, like voodoo5 and rage fury max), agreed it shares 256MB of RAM, but it's another option to pursue and like I said before, a precursor to dual core VGA cards, which itself will be aprecursor to Dual core with Sli (4x GPU's on one PC).

I guess if someone does a 2x6800GT on one card with 512MB on RAM on board, would we all be kicking up a fuss or jumping for joy?

Just remember from Ti4600 to FX5800 to FX5950, from Radeon 9700 to 9800 technology did not move that far forwards, heck even a Ti4600 was good for gaming 12 months after the FX5800 was released.

Then along came 6800's and X800's and our performance went through the roof - we have never had it so good.

One other thing to remember ATI and Nvidia sign exclusive agreements with game developers so that their hardware is optimised for that game straight out of the box (HL2 - ATI, Nvidia = DOOM3 etc..) so the twist is the balance of power could be with the quality of the game they decide to align themselves to.

Nvidia were lucky half life 2 does not come around that often and is a classic, lucky at the time the 6800GT's were the most desireable card in every way and that the 6600 kicked some mid-ranged ass, it probably saved ATI having HL2 as a freebie and driver optimised out of the box.

 

[SunSamurai]

Originally posted by: Whitewolf
Just wanted to correct you here aeternitas. A modded Ultra becomes a fully capable SLI chipset that can re-adjust the lanes exactly like an original one. You can have 16x + 1(or 2 or 4 or whatever)x or in dual mode 8x + 8x. This of course happens only on motherboards where their manufacturers have copied the SLI slot design on both SLI and Ultra models like DFI. On those mobos there is no thing such as semi or full sli. That was a terminology before the mod was known. Read Anand's article it clearly states that.

"All tests were run on a DFI LANParty UT nF4 Ultra-D and a DFI LANParty nF4 SLI-DR."
"Video cards were a single MSI 6800 Ultra PCIe or a matched pair of MSI 6800 Ultra in SLI and x16/x2 modes."

There was no mention that I saw of Ultra SLi runningat 8x/8x. And to corrent myself it was 16x/2x not 4x. They alsowent on with a bunch of tests showing the bottleneck.

 

[hafa]

Say what you will, bash as you may. I'm with Nanobaud on this one. The enhanced productivity I'll realize by running 3 monitors over 2 video cards will pay for the cost difference between an SLI and a non-sli board within one hour. Terribly wealthy? Hardly. I don't think US$100 equates to much for even a small independent developer. Perhaps I'll go with a DFI ultra, since they're supporting dual video cards, but I'm happy that the current crop of SLI motherboards is availble to broaden the market encompassing this long-needed and eagerly awaited feature.

 

[ribbon13]

Developers have always had this option... a regular PCI card is fine for multi-monitor setups when all the extra monitors are doing is showing tool sets. Same for graphic artists.


For me the real benefit will be running a 4 GPU workstation.
I hope ATi releases multiple gpu on single card that can ALSO be SLied.
If they don't 3dlabs will. =D

 

[hafa]

Actually, I've found PCI graphics cards inferior in terms of text clarity, color saturation and hue accuracy and overall 2-d performance. Even the better matrox cards have never held up well compared to even mid-range AGP cards. Since, in my work environment, a given monitor in a span may be called upon to carry out any of a number of functions, I've never been satisfied with having a "toolbar only" monitor.

The lack of performance of pci video is especially apparent running Adobe Premier, where I'll have multiple video samples running over several monitors.

The advent of dual pci-express monitors adresses these issues and also provides a consistent environment from monitor to monitor, simplifying color calibration and enhancing consistency, and thus, productivity.

 

[Whitewolf]

Originally posted by: aeternitas

Originally posted by: Whitewolf
Just wanted to correct you here aeternitas. A modded Ultra becomes a fully capable SLI chipset that can re-adjust the lanes exactly like an original one. You can have 16x + 1(or 2 or 4 or whatever)x or in dual mode 8x + 8x. This of course happens only on motherboards where their manufacturers have copied the SLI slot design on both SLI and Ultra models like DFI. On those mobos there is no thing such as semi or full sli. That was a terminology before the mod was known. Read Anand's article it clearly states that.

"All tests were run on a DFI LANParty UT nF4 Ultra-D and a DFI LANParty nF4 SLI-DR."
"Video cards were a single MSI 6800 Ultra PCIe or a matched pair of MSI 6800 Ultra in SLI and x16/x2 modes."

There was no mention that I saw of Ultra SLi runningat 8x/8x. And to corrent myself it was 16x/2x not 4x. They alsowent on with a bunch of tests showing the bottleneck.

"We were interested to see exactly what performance you could get with two video cards on the Ultra board before the mod to SLI, so we also ran benchmarks of the performance of x16/X2 Ultra dual-video card mode.

All tests were run on a DFI LANParty UT nF4 Ultra-D and a DFI LANParty nF4 SLI-DR. We first confirmed that test results were the same on the LANParty UT modified to SLI and the LANParty nF4 SLI, which is a native SLI chipset board. There was no difference in performance after the SLI modification to the Ultra chipset, so results are reported as SLI and relevant to either SLI or Ultra modified to SLI."

So the 16x/2x mode you see on the charts was only run using an unmodified Ultra board with the board jumpers set to dual graphics (that's the semi-SLI) so that they would have a 16x/2x mode to compare with.

I'm now wondering whether a mod to modify an SLI board to an Ultra one exists! :laugh:

 

[imported_slippy]

Hmm... This threadstarter really made me look at things in a whole new way. I mean, SLI is a scam... and all upgrading of any sort is a scam.

I think I'll stick with my system and fight the con-artist computer companies trying to keep me on a perpetual upgrade cycle.

My specs:
150 Mhz Intel pentium II
Motherboard- undefinable
48 MB generic ram
optical device- cd-rom reader (I have two of these!)
2 GB western digital ATA hard drive
video and sound card- Not needed, integrated on the motherboard! Yay!
150 watt generic power supply
Fans- we don't need no stinking fans!

 

[ribbon13]

SLi is a new technology with some serious issues. I'd wait until someone other than nVidia releases a GPU chipset for it first.

All new technology has problems
Remember the pentium? FDIV?

 

[Gunnman]

Just go get a better job and the price will be no issue to you. Sell your old cards on ebay and go buy new. I do a full upgrade every 2 years to the latest and greatest.

My Machine Rocks!!

My Rig:
AMD FX-55
Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe
2 GB Corsair XLPro
2x 6600GT (waithing for 6800UE to be released)
Adaptec 2200S U320 SCSI Controller
4x U320 15K RPM RAID-0
Audigy 2 ZS
Zalman Water Cooling Tower

 

[Mr. Lennon]

Originally posted by: Gunnman
Just go get a better job and the price will be no issue to you. Sell your old cards on ebay and go buy new. I do a full upgrade every 2 years to the latest and greatest.

My Machine Rocks!!

My Rig:
AMD FX-55
Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe
2 GB Corsair XLPro
2x 6600GT (waithing for 6800UE to be released)
Adaptec 2200S U320 SCSI Controller
4x U320 15K RPM RAID-0
Audigy 2 ZS
Zalman Water Cooling Tower

That rig deservers 2 ultras or 6800gts, no 6600s haha

 

[Gunnman]

There were no 6800 SLI available at the time. Got it early December. I will get the 2x6800UE very soon.

I can't wait!

 

[Gunnman]

I just upgraded

Code Name Quantity Price/Ea. Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
190483 BFG GeForce 6800 Ultra OC 256MB DDR3/PCI-E/TV-Out/Dual-DVI (Retail Box) 2 $540.00 $1,080.00
Warranty: 800011 - Manufacturer's Direct Warranty
Molex Connector: 260265 - Molex to PCI Express power adaptor - Requ $8.95 $17.90
Shipping: FedEx Std. Overnight ("Ship to" and "Bill to" must match): $32.58
Sales Tax: $0.00
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total: $1,130.48
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[Cassius105]

i find it a useful option because i have a long upgrade cycle

im just about to buy a new rig which means i wont get another 1 for about 2.5 - 3 years

when my system is starting to strugle in 2 years time i will not want to buy a brand new card because i will be saving up money for a whle new rig in 6 - 12 months time so being able to stick in another 6800GT(which by that time should be rather cheap) is a nice stop gap solution which will help extend the system life slightly

 

[maverik007]

One thing to be aware of when you buy an sli set-up and just one card.

Make sure that you purchase and identical card with an identical revision.

I orginally purchased 2x XFX 6800GT for my rig, one blew up - RMA - replacement arrived, installed, Sli reported that two cards of teh same make and model were incompatable.

Checked cards, one was rev 1.2 the other was rev 2.0 and the difference were enough for them not to be able to communicate in Sli.

My supplier was good enough to swap the other rev1.2 for another rev2.0 so it's all good now.

No doubt you may want to purchase a used unit, make sure when you do the the revison is the same as the one you already have.

Cheers

Mav

 

[imported_caf2461]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
The real question is whether most people would need a new PS. Most people would to run 2 cards, imo.

Would his Antec 380W do the job with 2 cards? He won't know until he tries.

As far as I can see, SLI is still a lot of trouble getting to work 100% anyway.

He will have no problem adding a second card. I am using the Sonata with the 380W 24A power supply:

- A8N-SLI Deluxe
- 1GB RAM Kingston hyperx
- 2x GF 6600Gt (overclocked)
- 3x HD (2sata 1ide)
- 1x DVD
- 1 dvd burner
- card reader
- floppy drive
- Overclocked 3200 (90 nm) (2.2 now)
- Zalman cpu cooler
- usb scanner and two printers

Voltage monitor is giving me these values:

+12V: 11,712
+5V: 4,865
+3,3V: 3.232
Vcore: 1.504

No problems getting SLI to work. Each card cost $180 and at the time the 6800gt in pci express were not even available. 3dMark05 score 6152. No intention of replacing with a high watt 6800gt - by the time I need more performance the low watt replacement for the 6600gt will be out. Still have plenty of overclocking head room. Upgrade options galore.......