SLI or "CROSSFIRE"

[Gamingphreek]

Uhh I think it's just that Crossfire is slightly a better solution than SLI.

Please tell me how you know this. Tech demos? Please.

Now that we know you can hack crossfire and do it without a special card

Since when?

The beginning of your post makes no sense.

-Kevin

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Eric220
My post count doesnt reflect anything, just means im new to Anandtech. Ive always knew about anadtech but never signed up on the forums. My brother works at ATi in Markham ontario, so if im a little towards the ATi side, you know why.

Nice. So because your brother works at ATI, you come here to troll?

How lucky we are. :roll:

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: DLeRium
Uhh I think it's just that Crossfire is slightly a better solution than SLI.

Actually , Crossfire isn't a solution at all. (nevermind better or worse) You can't buy it, we don't know if ATI will ever release it, or what it will be when they do.

Like the R520, it's a vaporware ghost story told by the faithful.

 

[KeepItRed]

Hmm... Crossfire's not out yet? I thought you could buy it... Anyways a few weeks ago I emailed Dave Block at ATi about the R520, he finally replied saying there is lots of positive things he would love to tell me, but ATi has a policy to not release info until the product is released. :frown:

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: KeepItRed
Hmm... Crossfire's not out yet? I thought you could buy it... Anyways a few weeks ago I emailed Dave Block at ATi about the R520, he finally replied saying there is lots of positive things he would love to tell me, but ATi has a policy to not release info until the product is released. :frown:

Yeah it is called an NDA...

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: KeepItRed
Hmm... Crossfire's not out yet? I thought you could buy it... Anyways a few weeks ago I emailed Dave Block at ATi about the R520, he finally replied saying there is lots of positive things he would love to tell me, but ATi has a policy to not release info until the product is released. :frown:

Don't you think there would be some actual reviews of Crossfire and posts by people who owned it if it were out???

So, a guy from ATI told you "there are a lot of positive things about the R520" but he can't tell you what they are. Big shock there- did he tell you that you should wait until it's released before buying any other card too?

 

[KeepItRed]

I'm just saying... you don't have to have a hissy fit just cause your on Nvidia's side.

EDIT: So why are there benchmarks showing Crossfire is better and faster if it doesn't exist?

eg:

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=14474&PageId=6

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: KeepItRed
I'm just saying... you don't have to have a hissy fit just cause your on Nvidia's side.

EDIT: So why are there benchmarks showing Crossfire is better and faster if it doesn't exist?

eg:

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=14474&PageId=6

Ok all of those benches came from ATI, CDR info just published them. Also i find it really hard to believe that they are saying it has a 100% performane advantage over SLI. THat would mean almost a 300% advantage over single card which is pure BS.

No one is having a "hissy fit". You are posting based on nothing. You are just spewing out random terms and numbers and claiming one solution is better.

 

[KeepItRed]

I didn't say i was claiming anything. I was just asking how it's possible that benchmarks are out when the final product is not released. Please read.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Uhh I think it's just that Crossfire is slightly a better solution than SLI.

Please tell me how you know this. Tech demos? Please.

Now that we know you can hack crossfire and do it without a special card

Since when?

The beginning of your post makes no sense.

-Kevin

Better solution being from a technological standpoint. Furthermore that really illegit HK site shows a lot of crossfire demos. They don't show it head to head with a 6800, but clearly those numbers are impressive, and when you fllip a few pages later, you'll see SLI benches. Compare numbers that way and I believe the X850 demolishes the 6800U in most fields (Crossfire vs SLI)

While it's not out yet, you dont HAVE to get a new special card. Just hack it.

Crossfire is not OFFICIALLY out, and so thats why legitimate sites like Anand won't go breaking NDAs to show us a chart.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

I'll admit that I'm an ATI fan, but I wont make purchases and recommendations based on fanboism. Here's the thing... If Crossfire beats the crap out of SLI, so be it. If its vice versa, so be it.

The problem is I only have so much $$$. If I want a dual card so badly, I'll get SLI. It's not like I REFUSE to buy nVidia. If 2 products are equal, I'll probably lean to ATI.

If you use the X800XL ~ 6800GT idea and you double them up with SLI/Crossfire, and the X800XL comes out on top, then clearly crossfire is better (6800GTs slightly better than X800XLs anyways, but costlier).

100% performance increase over SLI? NOWHERE in those benches does it show that. Crossfire could be 150% of SLI if SLI is not bringing that much benefits to begin with right? SLI doesn't give 200% performance to begin with. IF it did, then Crossfire would be at best, the same....

 

[trinibwoy]

Originally posted by: DLeRium
Better solution being from a technological standpoint.

Please elaborate. And as to scanline-interleave above - what exactly are you talking about? There hasn't been scanline interleave SLI since the voodoo.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

SLI today is just technology from old SLI (scanline interleave) with added on AFR features. ATI worked from the other way around. AFR + alternating pixels/lines. NVidia and ATI know that alternating frames is ideal. I think NVidia's SLI has much room for improvement. Even Anand's article somewhere talked about how Crossfire should be a better solution than SLI. I'm not saying this as which cards are better, but just that Crossfire will provide more performance increases than SLI will. So if NVidia used a closer to crossfire solution they would be pwning even more.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Ok you are making no sense. Nvidia supports AFR along with the older one (cant remember at the moment) for older games. Nvidia gives you a choice between the 2. ATI gives you AFR. They connect in different ways. ATI you must have a master card. I dont see how Nvidia can improve more.

Are you saying they should have thought of stuff in a different order or something?

-Kevin

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Of course Nvidia supports AFR. It's a necessity. It's the best way to get performance boosts. It's just that they started from the scanline interleave and added AFR. You cannot do AFR all the time, and so sometimes you need to split the screen up which both Crossfire and SLI will do when necessary.

ATI you must have a master card and that's true, but its still just another card. I'm telling you. Look at that HK site. They hacked Crossfire already. You just get 2 cards. You can get 2 of any cards. You can get a friggn AGP and PCI-E card if you want. You can get an X700 and X800 if you want. I'm saying there's more flexibility in Crossfire than with SLI whose bridge restricts the 2 cards to the same bios, same card, etc. And if you look at the benchmarks at that site, Crossfire clearly wins.

I'm saying that Crossfire is technologically superior, that's it. The only complaint I have is that they brought it out too late (over 6 months).

 

[Gamingphreek]

You are making absolutely no sense.

SFR (Split Frame Rendering) is the old way and is usually selected for older games such as Quake III and what not.

AFR (Alternate Frame Rendering) is the newer way and is used for newer games. Both companies support this from the get go, so i dont know how you are trying to bash Nvidia here.

You cannot crossfire an AGP card #1. You cannot hack the card #2. No one has the cards so i dont know how those people are attempting this. What is the point of supporting Crossfire on 2 completely different cards. That is like buying an X800XL and then spending money on the R520. Then Crossfiring them would waste your money on the R520, you might as well have gotten 2x X800XL's.

You seem way behind the times. If you read up, you no longer need the same BIOS, or the same exact card anylonger. The only thing that needs to stay constant is the core. YOu cannot SLI a 6800 and a 6600 for instance.

YOu cannot possibly say Crossfire is superior, when you have no basis. THe cards haven't even been released yet!

Stop posting crap that you cannot back up.

-Kevin

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

1) Yes you can hack the card so you crossfire with 2 boards w/o buying a selector card. Look at the site I referred to, THEN respond. Yes you can crossfire with AGP. Look at the site, THEN respond. None of these are in ATI's plans but it's just like you can softmod a 9500 or unlock an X800's pipes, etc. It's not supposed to happen, but hey... you can easily make it happen.
2) I'm not saying Crossfiring an X700 and X800XL is smart, but it's at least an option.

Like I said before, I'm saying Crossfire is a technologically better solution. You obviously are making no sense. It's more flexible than SLI--you basically can't argue with that. ALso, no you cannot AFR every single frame. If the next frame depends on the previous, then you cannot AFR. While AFR is preferable, you cannot get AFR every single time, so you use SFR at other times.

I'm not bashing NVidia. I'm just saying Crossfire is a better solution. It was built grounds up to do AFR. SLI was taken from 3dfx which did things in SFR, and they added on the AFR. Why do you think ATI cards perform better in Crossfire than NVidia cards do in SLI?

I am way behind in times? Go read articles yourself. YOU are way behind.

Stop denying everything I say just because you are bringing in opinions in. I'm saying this from a technological standpoint.

NOw does this mean I love ATI for releasing stuff nearly a year later than NVidia? No. SLI is great, but that doesn't mean Crossfire won't be good.... And as I said before, I would buy SLI if I wanted dual cards. If indeed all those benchmarks are randomly made up numbers by someone who faked the everything and then Crossfire does turn out to be crap, I would buy SLI instead.

 

[Gamingphreek]

I am way behind in times? Go read articles yourself. YOU are way behind.

How old are you 12? I just showed you that you were behind the times.

1) Yes you can hack the card so you crossfire with 2 boards w/o buying a selector card. Look at the site I referred to, THEN respond. Yes you can crossfire with AGP. Look at the site, THEN respond. None of these are in ATI's plans but it's just like you can softmod a 9500 or unlock an X800's pipes, etc. It's not supposed to happen, but hey... you can easily make it happen.

How about a link to this sight. I still wouldn't trust it at all since, posting that would mean they broke NDA, also, i didn't know that any reviewers had the cards yet.

Like I said before, I'm saying Crossfire is a technologically better solution. You obviously are making no sense. It's more flexible than SLI--you basically can't argue with that. ALso, no you cannot AFR every single frame. If the next frame depends on the previous, then you cannot AFR. While AFR is preferable, you cannot get AFR every single time, so you use SFR at other times.

And like i said before. You know 0. You just said you cannot use AFR every time. So since ATI only supports AFR, that probably isn't good. Additionally, AFR will not work with older games, in which case you would need SFR, which ATI does not support.

I'm not bashing NVidia. I'm just saying Crossfire is a better solution. It was built grounds up to do AFR. SLI was taken from 3dfx which did things in SFR, and they added on the AFR. Why do you think ATI cards perform better in Crossfire than NVidia cards do in SLI?

This SLI is much improved. Nvidia merely kept the name. The cards are not connected in the same way, and the technology is much more advanced.

Stop denying everything I say just because you are bringing in opinions in. I'm saying this from a technological standpoint.

I haven't posted ONE opinion, yet. You are the person who has said in everysingle post that a non-existant technology is far superior to what is already out.

2) I'm not saying Crossfiring an X700 and X800XL is smart, but it's at least an option.

You are truely amazying. If it isn't smart what is the point of having the option!?!?!?

-Kevin

 

[forbin]

the only that matters to me is: what will it take to run bf2 19x12, ultra settings, 6aa,8af, at 80fps. right now, i dont think even 7800sli will do that. im thinking that we wont see those numbers until r520.. r520 + my current x800xl in crossfire sounds promising.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: forbin
the only that matters to me is: what will it take to run bf2 19x12, ultra settings, 6aa,8af, at 80fps. right now, i dont think even 7800sli will do that. im thinking that we wont see those numbers until r520 r520 + my current x800xl in crossfire sounds promising.

Link

Looks like the 7800GTX does just fine. Even maxed out at 20x15. Why do you want 80fps 40-50 is perfectly playable, and that is with a single card.

im thinking that we wont see those numbers until r520 r520 + my current x800xl in crossfire sounds promising.

Ok why would you buy an R520 and SLI it with the XL. You might as well SLI 2 XL's, because that is all you are going to get. Additionally, there is no proof that the R520 is even going to be faster than the 7800.

-Kevin

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

How old are you 12? I just showed you that you were behind the times.

I just said read the articles. If you haven't read them and you're telling me I'm behind, then maybe you should examine your own knowledge.

How about a link to this sight. I still wouldn't trust it at all since, posting that would mean they broke NDA, also, i didn't know that any reviewers had the cards yet.

AGP PCI-E Crossfire
Crossfire Hacked

Fine. Don't trust it. It might not be legit, but we get an idea of what's possible. But don't tell me its impossible because we shouldn't trust a site. You guys blab more about Inquirer which is far less reliable than an actual site with an actual demo setup.

And like i said before. You know 0. You just said you cannot use AFR every time. So since ATI only supports AFR, that probably isn't good. Additionally, AFR will not work with older games, in which case you would need SFR, which ATI does not support.

I know 0? More like YOU know 0. ATI does support SFR. Read Anand's article on Crossfire. Not only does it support SPLIT SCREEN, it supports scissor-style (checkerboard) scalable up to 64 GPUs. If you read the commentary there, this is clearly a more flexible style of rendering frames compared to NVidia's SFR and AFR.

This SLI is much improved. Nvidia merely kept the name. The cards are not connected in the same way, and the technology is much more advanced.

Thanks for restating what I said 3 times. It is an IMPROVEMENT to old SLI. In fact it is a significant improvement that they added on SLI, and yes it is very advanced. Crossfire is very advanced too. Your point?

I haven't posted ONE opinion, yet. You are the person who has said in everysingle post that a non-existant technology is far superior to what is already out.

Let's see, you're the one throwing out random insults trying to call me someone outdated and not following news, etc. Then you call Crossfire's ability to link different cards stupid. It may be pointless from a consumer standpoint, but its an ADD ON feature. Who cares if you don't use it, this doesn't mean Crossfire sucks.

Crossfire is nonexistent technology? Before I bash you for your poor logic there and misunderstanding of epistemology, I should just say that it is very existent, and if it weren't we wouldn't be discussing it. It may not be OUT for consumers, but that doesn't mean its non existent. Then whats this R520 talk if its non existent? I'm going to plug in my non existent graphics card once ATI release "it" in September. Awesome!

You are truely amazying. If it isn't smart what is the point of having the option!?!?!?

Yes I am thank you. Let's say you don't have all the money in the world and you bought your X700. Say you want to upgrade now and get an X800XL. Later you might throw in another X800XL and crossfire those 2 later, but for now you at least have a crossfired solution (while it may be crappier). Even Anand illustrates examples where this might be useful. Well there you go. I'm not saying its the most wonderful thing in the world I can link 2 random cards, and I wont be using that feature. I'm sure it will benefit some people. After all I don't upgrade every 3 months, so this could be a potentially useful feature. I'm saying Crossfire has more flexibility than SLI. If you can prove otherwise, bring it. Otherwise stop your whining.

Conclusion: Get back to the topic. How is SLI better than Crossfire? You spend all your time throwing crap at me for what? To prove that you're an idiot or to show that my reasoning that Crossfire > SLI is wrong? I don't see what you're proving.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Ok why would you buy an R520 and SLI it with the XL. You might as well SLI 2 XL's, because that is all you are going to get. Additionally, there is no proof that the R520 is even going to be faster than the 7800.

-Kevin

Uhh maybe you wuold just use a friggn R520 single? DUHHH Isn't that the whole damn point of a friggn 7800GTX? To beat the SLI setup so its a more compelling solution?

You SLI the two because you can LATER get a SECOND R520 and then you get two R520s. This is like getting 1 GB of RAM for now and sticking the 2nd GB later. You're just trying random things to bash this feature of Crossfire.

If anything should be bashed, it's SLI's inability for you to SLI 2 different GPUs. Now shut up.

 

[MrYahtzee]

ill take the crossfire system:thumbsup:

 

[golem]

Fine. Don't trust it. It might not be legit, but we get an idea of what's possible. But don't tell me its impossible because we shouldn't trust a site. You guys blab more about Inquirer which is far less reliable than an actual site with an actual demo setup.

I'm not sure, but I think I've read somewhere (beyond3d?) that what they did with the hack was to have one of the card show every OTHER frame. What the master card is supposed to have is a compositing chip that combines the 2 images from the 2 cards together. W/O the chip, it's just playing every other frame and dropping the frame from the slave card, since it has no way to add the images from the 2 cards together. So no, unless I'm wrong, there currently isn't a way to hack 2 slave cards.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

It's not 100% faster. It's just performing better than SLI. You can't force it to do AFR if it can't physically do AFR in a certain situation (when frames depend on the next like in many games).

The point of the article is to show how you can hack it without a master card. You just use the slave cards to get Crossfire.

If you look at Page 2, it compares:

A) Real crossfire
B) Hacked crossfire
C) Single card

This site is so illegit =P