Small biz VOIP

[coolVariable]

Friend of mine is looking into VOIP for a small business (15 employees).
The prices he was/is being quoted seem really expensive: $24/extension/month + what I would consider normal dialing rates to the US and intl (ie skype has cheaper dialing rates).

I would have thought that he would be able to find something much cheaper?
At those rates, they might be better off getting 15 individual vonage accounts ...

AFAIK they have some cisco/linksys VOIP phones that they plan on using with the system.

(PS: I checked SIPgate but they don't allow number porting and this company wants to keep the main line)

 

[aE0n]

It sounds like he's looking at Hosted PBX, which is more than just VoIP lines.
http://hostedpbxservices.com/

If you get just get a Vonage line then you still need a PBX to do all those fancy things.

 

[Specop 007]

Thats about what we charge for our hosted PBX offerings. If you just need 15 dumb lines its probably not the most economical solution. If you need any pbx functionality the cost savings really become apparent to go HPBX over in house solutions.

You just really cant compare true business class solutions to a simple Vonage account. 2 different animals and they are priced accordingly. If you are in a business environment and havent yet looked into pbx functionality I would strongly encourage you to do so. It probably wont be game changing but it can help you put on a better image to your customers as well as making communications in the office easier.

Also, if he has any data lines (fax) I would encourage you to get a simple POTS line for that. IP based communications is great until you need to use 1970's technology. At that point you'll want to hang yourself with an ethernet cable.

 

[mammador]

A hosted IP PBX would be good here. As well as softphones for each employees (both on desktops/laptops, and on phones if required). Cisco has a good softphone, but I think it's proprietary. 3CX phone can run on most if not all SIP-based PBXs.

 

[coolVariable]

They have a bunch of Cisco SPA942 phones, so they are looking for a solution involving those.
The PBX hardware can't be that expensive, considering that they could just go with Asterisk and have someone configure it.
Still $24/month per extension seems ridiculous when I look at sipgates pricing (which I would totally recommend if it supported number porting): 15 users should be something like $80/month.

 

[kevnich2]

Businesses lifeline is usually it's phones and internet connection and you're saying 15 user's should be....$80/month???? Wow! If he has a business with 15 employee's - this cost should be factored into his business model already. If you go with a hacked pbx solution and it stops working, how much does it cost his business?

Hosted pbx solution for $24/month/employee sounds pretty reasonable to me. Also allows workers to telecommute as all it needs is the phone connected to an internet connection. Also good for disaster planning as it eliminates the need for an office. If all 15 people don't need to be calling outside all the time and it's mainly for internal calling then get a few quotes from company's and go with a per minute rate plan. Expect around $15/month/phone for a per rate hosted pbx.

 

[Specop 007]

They have a bunch of Cisco SPA942 phones, so they are looking for a solution involving those.
The PBX hardware can't be that expensive, considering that they could just go with Asterisk and have someone configure it.
Still $24/month per extension seems ridiculous when I look at sipgates pricing (which I would totally recommend if it supported number porting): 15 users should be something like $80/month.

How much experience do you actually have in HPBX solutions? Its easy for a guy with a home phone and an answering machine to say a business class phone service is expensive. Partly because it is.

Throw in hardware and it can add up. Traditional PBX systems scale for shit. Asterix based systems require someone to administer them (not impossible) or some support contract for an outside resource to manage them.

HPBX is a turn key solution scaling at a per line level. Need to add 1 line? Easy. Need to do a quick change to add a line to a MADN and throw in another AA? Your provider should have that done in no time.

My point is if you are really helping this customer with a phone selection you really need to do some serious research before trying to steer them into a potentially bad decision that will affect them for years to come. It might be that a simple Asterisk box with 15 DID numbers is all they need. Or they may need an AA that rolls into a MLHG/MADN for receptionist capabilities with voicemail that does time of day routing as well as individual back office numbers with the potential to do time of day routing/forwarding/voicemail with transfer/hold/MOH for all lines in the office as well as data and fax lines.

It may be all they need is an Asterisk box, but if you are really helping them in this my opinion is you seem woefully uninformed as to what the state of the industry is.

 

[Pheran]

They have a bunch of Cisco SPA942 phones, so they are looking for a solution involving those.
The PBX hardware can't be that expensive, considering that they could just go with Asterisk and have someone configure it.
Still $24/month per extension seems ridiculous when I look at sipgates pricing (which I would totally recommend if it supported number porting): 15 users should be something like $80/month.

You might want to take a look at the Cisco UC320, only problem is I'm not sure if it supports those phone models.

 

[nitrous9200]

OnSIP is nice because you pay for the minutes you use, not per user or extension, so you can have as many phones as you want for the same cost (and calling to other extensions is free as well).

I should also add that we use the SPA942 phones with it (and the newer Cisco variants) and they work nicely, but there is some manual setup required for each phone - some other brands/models support auto configuration.

 

[coolVariable]

OnSIP is nice because you pay for the minutes you use, not per user or extension, so you can have as many phones as you want for the same cost (and calling to other extensions is free as well).

I should also add that we use the SPA942 phones with it (and the newer Cisco variants) and they work nicely, but there is some manual setup required for each phone - some other brands/models support auto configuration.

that sounds better than what most others have said here.

Considering the cost/functions of a PSTN phone system and a VOIP system, voip/hpbx is clearly overpriced at $24/month.

@kevnich2 & @Specop007: were those posts meant to be helpful? Because they read like rants that somebody would dare to criticize voip ...

 

[Specop 007]

that sounds better than what most others have said here.

Considering the cost/functions of a PSTN phone system and a VOIP system, voip/hpbx is clearly overpriced at $24/month.

@kevnich2 & @Specop007: were those posts meant to be helpful? Because they read like rants that somebody would dare to criticize voip ...

You really read that as a rant? Wow. You do realize I even admitted the customer may not need a HPBX solution right? That in fact maybe he just needs 15 regular ole phones lines right? Maybe Asterisk is the solution.

This is my point. You are playing "consultant" in a field you clearly know dick about. Whats even more egregious is rather than shut up and try to learn something you defend your ignorance by claiming others are ranting.

Now the fact is I frankly have no skin in this guys business. I dont care what solution he goes with nor do I care how it impacts his business or his image he gives his customers. Well, Google has made you an expert so I'll just shut up and step right out of your way.

 

[coolVariable]

You really read that as a rant? Wow. You do realize I even admitted the customer may not need a HPBX solution right? That in fact maybe he just needs 15 regular ole phones lines right? Maybe Asterisk is the solution.

This is my point. You are playing "consultant" in a field you clearly know dick about. Whats even more egregious is rather than shut up and try to learn something you defend your ignorance by claiming others are ranting.

Now the fact is I frankly have no skin in this guys business. I dont care what solution he goes with nor do I care how it impacts his business or his image he gives his customers. Well, Google has made you an expert so I'll just shut up and step right out of your way.

Yes, you're tone is not exactly what I would call friendly.
Stepping out of the way would probably be helpful, since google quickly points one to much cheaper hosted PBX solutions and I wasn't looking for a Mr. Know-it-all but not help.
And maybe I am not an expert but at least I am able to tell when somebody is getting ripped off.

 

[kevnich2]

Yes, you're tone is not exactly what I would call friendly.
Stepping out of the way would probably be helpful, since google quickly points one to much cheaper hosted PBX solutions and I wasn't looking for a Mr. Know-it-all but not help.
And maybe I am not an expert but at least I am able to tell when somebody is getting ripped off.

$25/month/employee is not a rip off at all. Requirements for businesses and the various features aren't free, or cheap.

Clearly this statement of yours tells me you really don't have any business giving others advice on finding a business phone solution. Business & residential phone requirements aren't even in the same ball park. Since you don't seem to really want to do any research and clearly have no idea what you're talking about - I suggest you point your friend to an actual IT consultant in his area that knows about VOIP & business phone systems.

 

[coolVariable]

$25/month/employee is not a rip off at all. Requirements for businesses and the various features aren't free, or cheap.

Clearly this statement of yours tells me you really don't have any business giving others advice on finding a business phone solution. Business & residential phone requirements aren't even in the same ball park. Since you don't seem to really want to do any research and clearly have no idea what you're talking about - I suggest you point your friend to an actual IT consultant in his area that knows about VOIP & business phone systems.

Really. Yet another "expert"!
Google will quickly point one to sipgate which offers the same service for a fraction of $25/user/month.

Thanks but no thanks to your advice.

 

[drebo]

Really. Yet another "expert"!
Google will quickly point one to sipgate which offers the same service for a fraction of $25/user/month.

Thanks but no thanks to your advice.

It really is going to depend on your calling patterns and what you actually need.

We offer an unlimited hosted PBX phone service. If you want to use your own phones, we charge $5/mo/phone maintenance, or you can lease the phones from us for a nominal fee depending on the phone model. Then we charge $40/mo/channel for unlimited inbound/outbound calling to US50+Canada.

15 phones + 3 outside lines = $195/mo if you supply your own phones. That includes the PBX, all the PBX features, tech support and maintenance for upkeep as well as "adds/moves/changes". That's pretty cheap.

What you have to realize is that there is a lot that goes in to the maintenance and development of a hosted pbx infrastructure. Yes, you can go out and build a cheap linux box for $400 and throw Asterisk on it and configure it and then use some other discount VoIP provider for trunking...but now you are responsible for whether or not it works, stays functional, and has good quality. Hell, most small businesses with fewer phones than you and 3-4 POTS lines will have a $200+ phone bill, and they still have to worry about buying the PBX and paying someone to maintain it.

If you have the technical knowhow to build, provision, and maintain a PBX, then great...you can probably do it slightly less expensive. But most people don't have that capability. Thus, hosted PBX providers exist to provide that for them without the costs associated with having someone inhouse or paying a consultant to do it.

We have some hosted PBX customers paying us well over $1000/mo for hosted PBX service because it makes sense for them. It may not make sense for you. You need to decide if that's the right solution, and if it is, then go for it.

Incidentally, where are you located? Local companies are almost always better to deal with. voip.ms is a company that also does a multi-tenant style phone service, but good luck ever getting ahold of tech support if something stops working.

P.S. insulting people on here is not a good way to get help now or in the future. Some people on here have years and years of expernience in this field and generally know what they're talking about.

 

[freegeeks]

Yes, you're tone is not exactly what I would call friendly.
Stepping out of the way would probably be helpful, since google quickly points one to much cheaper hosted PBX solutions and I wasn't looking for a Mr. Know-it-all but not help.
And maybe I am not an expert but at least I am able to tell when somebody is getting ripped off.

you have no clue what you are talking about

case closed

 

[mammador]

Really. Yet another "expert"!
Google will quickly point one to sipgate which offers the same service for a fraction of $25/user/month.

Thanks but no thanks to your advice.

Cost is only one of many factors in choosing any computer system. IMO, it's not even the primary factor. Functionality and a good fit with needs are chief concerns in most business contexts.

As has been said an outsourced/SaaS solution is best, since a small company as per the OP is unlikely to have an inhouse IT function.

 

[kevnich2]

The OP came here asking for advice. Many of us gave our recommendations - he flatly was rude and insulting about about all of it and obviously has no idea what he's talking about. Cost is not the primary concern when it comes to business VOIP. Those of us in the field know that. Why the guy came here asking for advice when he clearly doesn't want it is beyond me. Don't ask for help if you don't want it.

As others have said - case closed.

 

[Specop 007]

you have no clue what you are talking about

case closed

You are supposed to tell the OP what an amazing job he did in Googling a cheaper solution.

He doesnt want advice, he wants a cheerleading squad to rubberstamp his decision.

God help the customer.

 

[mammador]

Really. Yet another "expert"!
Google will quickly point one to sipgate which offers the same service for a fraction of $25/user/month.

Thanks but no thanks to your advice.

Then please explain why your avenue is better. A PBX solution is best for a business, whether PSTN or VoIP in nature.

 

[Emulex]

Ask your provider to put a SLA guarantee on the quality of voice. If the VOIP product is less quality than the old PRI/nortel MICS setup - you get paid money. I bet you will not find anyone that will take that pepsi challenge.

remember your salesrep get one chance on a call. I know what i do when i hear low quality voip calls - click.

I'm waiting for skype/lync integration. I believe we'll be onto something there. This is one area where WP7 could seriously rock. Voip/lync at work - phone elsewhere. with the way WP7 is going probably get the handset for free and then some lol.

 

[wirednuts]

i think op should listen to people who installed this stuff before. pbx is a general term that encompasses a shit ton of different systems and designs. its not something you want to just guess at. i dont think when you built your first pc you just bought a random set of 13 parts just because they all had good newegg reviews, only to find out pci cards wont work in pcie slots and 1.65v ram will ruin warranties.

 

[coolVariable]

What a bunch of sore losers that can't stand someone figuring out a better solution than their "expert advice"

 

[kevnich2]

What a bunch of sore losers that can't stand someone figuring out a better solution than their "expert advice"

Then get lost and don't come asking for advice when you don't want it. And don't come back here later on when your "better solution" causes your friend's business to lose a lot of customers because it doesn't work.

(PS: I checked SIPgate but they don't allow number porting and this company wants to keep the main line)

As for sipgate not doing number porting.....color me surprised! boo hoo for you. I don't think you'll get any more advice or sympathy from anyone here. Good-bye!

 

[robmurphy]

I'm in the UK so I'm not aware of the different providers in the US.

Getting 15 SPA942s working on VoIP is quite easy. Getting them working 99.9% is a different matter.

When you have actualy got them working 99.9% ot the time you will still probably be left with call quality issues.

Below are some of the questions you will need to be able to answer. You will need to be able to answer all these questions, and understand the reasons behind the answers given.

How many concurrent outging calls?

If hosted how many concurrent extension to extension calls?

How are you making outgoing calls?

How are you receiving incoming calls?

If you are using IP for incomming and/or outgoing how many conncurrent calls?

Are you looking to queue incomming calls? Were will they be queued?

What are the FAX needs?

What are the voicemail requirements?

What codecs are you going to use?

If the incomming and/or outgoing calls are IP based who will do the transcoding?

How are you going to access IVRs on the public network? Things like banks, ticket ordering ect use IVRs. Different codecs will have different requirements if you want to be able to use IVRs.

If using IP for incomming and/or outgoing calls what uplink and down stream bandwidth are you going to need?

If using a hosted system what uplink and downlink bandwdith are you going to need for extension to extension calls?

If you are using hosted it will probably use SIP. SIP is written for SIP devices, including the phones, that have static public IP addresses. Will you be allocating a public IP per phone?

If using the phones behind NAT how will you work around it? SIP and NAT do not work well together.

If you build your own PBX using Asterix of one form or another how will you secure the system? Its very common if you have the SIP signalling port open that it will be attacked. The usual result of a successful hack is a bill of £10,000+, or $16,000+.

I mentioned the SIP signalling port. Which port will you be using? Will you use TCP or UDP?

For the RTP what periodicty will you be using?

If you are using IP for calls and the phones are behind NAT what will this mean for the firewall?

If you are using IP for calls will the link also be carrying normal traffic from PCs ect? How will you prioritise the traffic for the phones?

Will you be using separate LANs for the phones and any PCs printer ect?

If you have separate LAN for the phones and the PCs but use the same internet link how will you set that link up? Use seperate subnets?

The answers to the above are the easy ones.

Rob