small block V8's

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Tominator

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,559
1
0


<< Cop-mobiles don't have much to work with. >>



I will guarantee if you asked any Cop thsat has been around a few years he'll tell you the newer cars the better!

...And the king of torque/hp in trucks is a SOHC Ford V10 with Factory Approved supercharger installed...only the diesels better it in torque...
 

Fandu

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,341
0
0
Tominator:

I think the 426 Hemi would give it a good run for it's money '66 through '71 I think it was used.........
 

Tominator

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,559
1
0
It depends on whe makes that 350 ....Chevy, small block....Buick and Pontiac, big block...all 350s.

The only 383 I'm aware of was a Mopar and it's a big block....I had a '68 Roadrunner 383, purple, and have about ten trophies from the strip...

 

trmiv

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
14,668
1
81


<< Hard to believe, but a 5.7L (350ci) is considered a small block.
>>



Hey, I have a 355ci small block in my race car, and we are going to be building a 377 or 383 (not sure yet) small block later in the year. My dad used to race sprint cars, which use 410ci small blocks. It's all about cylinder volume.
 

Heisenberg

Lifer
Dec 21, 2001
10,621
1
0


<<

<< You mind telling me what the top end on that car is? I'm curious to know if I could outrun the police. >>



Can't out run the radio.

Crown Victoria
0-60 top speed
1990 N/A 121
1991 11.4 121
1992 N/A 124
1993 9.57 123
1994 N/A 128
1995 N/A 132
1996 9.10 135
1997 10.5 129
1998 9.01 130
1999 8.55 129
2000 8.75 129
2001 8.7 129
2002 8.42 129
2003 8.84 127

Michigan State Police Tests
>>



Wow, that's not very fast. I was under the impression that they topped out around 130 which is basically right, but I figured the 0-60 times would be much faster. Guess there's only so much that can be done with a heavy sedan like that.
 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
"Guess there's only so much that can be done with a heavy sedan like that."

There's no substitute for cubic inches, but I hear the Marauder will eak 300 horsepower and 300 lb-ft of torque out of that 4.6.

The 1995 Roadmaster did 0-60 in 6.7 and a 15.0 quarter. That car had room under the hood for a bigger engine too. Damn GM for dropping that platform! :frown:
 

N8Magic

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
11,624
1
81


<< <<Hard to believe, but a 5.7L (350ci) is considered a small block.>>

Bah, that's only because we don't have the 409 (6.7 litre), 427 (7.0 litre), 454 (7.4 litre) and 502 (8.2 litre) V8's anymore. I'd love to see a Crown Vic with a good ol' 454 under the hood.
>>


I thought the biiiiiiiig 8.1L V8 (496) was related to the 502, and was a big block? Now imagine that beast of an engine in an... Aurora? (what's the biggest car Chevy makes now anyways?)

The 502 was the engine in the early 70's Caddy land yachts right?
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,512
21
81
<<I thought the biiiiiiiig 8.1L V8 (496) was related to the 502, and was a big block?>>

Yeah, that is a big block. All the engines I mentioned were big blocks. I meant that the 5.7 only seems big because all the truly big engines are basically gone now. In retrospect I could have been a lot more clear on that. Not sure which cars used the 502, I know that it's still used in marine applications. MerCruiser has an EFI 502 ci engine that can really make a boat scoot.

ZV
 

kamiam

Banned
Dec 12, 1999
2,638
0
0


<< The 302ci is "old fashioned". The new 4.6L (289ci) has a wondrous, high tech overhead cam. :Q >>

hehehe...a battle over just who is the oldest and most outdated engine...
 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
Cadillac used a 472 and 500ci in many of their models back in the day. There's 101 ways to get power out of those things, but no way to get economy. They tried with their 1981 variable displacement engine, that ran on 4,6 or 8 cylinders as needed, but it was a bust. Looks like we're stuck with teensie engines now that the cars are so damn small!
 

sitka

Senior member
Dec 29, 2000
895
0
0
Mopar
Most common 383 was a large block. and went up to the venerable 440 police interceptor hemi
However (I think) there was a 383 small block as well, I'll look for the source.
 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
"...the oldest and most outdated engine..."

What an ass. Not everyone wants to pay a premium for parts and diagnostics just to have something "high tech!" There's a good reason those engines were in production for 30 or more years. And 30 years of producing the same engine results in really cheap replacement and performance parts.

It's like the bicycle. It wasn't too many years after the first "safety bike" was built that it reached a point where much improvement was hard to come by. Now they're just getting ridiculous with technology to improve that design marginally.
 

sitka

Senior member
Dec 29, 2000
895
0
0
There are eight different big blocks. The B blocks are short deck and the RBs are tall deck. The RBs require a wider intake manifold.

B: 350, 361, 383, 400
RB: 383, 413, 426 Wedge (not Hemi), 440
All B engine use 3.38 stroke crank with different bores, and all RB engines use 3.75 stroke crank with different bores. You'll notice that the 383 is listed in two differnent places; there were two different 383s. The 350 was only produced in 1958.

Ian Smale added: The 383 cubic inch RB Block was only available in 1959-1960 on the US built Chrysler Windsor and Saratoga.

Bill Watson added: In 1959 and 1960, the "RB" block engines were used in American-built Chrysler and Imperial cars. The 413-cid V8 was used in the Imperial, Chrysler New Yorker and Chrysler 300 E/F. The Chrysler Windsor and Saratoga in 1959 and 1960, U.S. built only, used the RB-based 383-cid V8.


The two 383 engines (by Curtis Redgap)Confusion can reign when attempting to repair/restore these "babies."

Of the Golden Lion 383 perhaps there hasn't been as much divisive condemnation of that engine due to its simultaneous introduction of its bored out big brother 413.

The 383 "RB" (Chrysler) had its head deck raised, and was stroked to the famous (or infamous) 3.75 inches that covered the RB 383, the 413, the 426, and with the thin wall casting techniques, the 440. It was also the same size stroke for the 426 "HEMI."

In the "RB" family, the outward appearance will not give you a clue as to the cubic inch size. The major difference is the bore size. The 383 was a 4.03 inch bore. The 413 saw a 4.18 inch hole which directly resulted in an easy leap to the NASCAR limit of 426 cubic inches by boring the block to a 4.25 inch diameter. It was about the limit for this block.

In 1966, thanks to development of precision thin wall casting techniques used to make the 1964 small 273 ci V-8, this same RB could be pushed out to 4.32 inches which gave us the 440.

While Chrysler at the time had its eyes on the racing development of the 413-426 family, it also wasn't asleep. Lynn Townsend was probably one of the better Directors to come along in quite awhile. Ford introduced the mid sized Fairlane in 1962. A mid 1962 featured introduction revealed a brand new line of "ECONOMY" V-8 engines with 221 and 260 cubic inch displacements. There were completely different from anything anyone had seen. They used the precision thin wall technique and eliminated the "siamese" valve configuration. A whole new engine family resulted later on in the Ford line, 351, 429, and finally the 460. But, Townsend was impressed and saw the need for a small engine for the "small car" lines at Chrysler. It took two years, which isn't too shabby a development time. The 273 was a great little V-8, with lots of potential that was only touched by engineers.

I'm happy I found this but now I'm confused if the 440 Police package was available in Hemi config. Gonna have to visit my dad.
 

Cyberian

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2000
9,999
1
0


<< Mopar
Most common 383 was a large block. and went up to the venerable 440 police interceptor hemi
However (I think) there was a 383 small block as well, I'll look for the source.
>>

Kinda hard to believe that a 383 could be a small block and a big block at the same time.
 

Pacfanweb

Lifer
Jan 2, 2000
13,149
57
91
<< We've got a '95 4.6L sitting here with about 80K on it. If it's driven like a granny mobile, the gasket should stay intact, right... RIGHT?>>

The 95's really didn't have much problem. It's only the later models that have the real problems leaking oil. The older ones will get the EGR ports carboned up, though. Causes a check engine light, sometimes spark knocking.

Edit: same story for Tom's 4.6. They'll run forever. May want to clean the EGR ports, but really they don't give much trouble.
 

Pacfanweb

Lifer
Jan 2, 2000
13,149
57
91
<<The only 383 I'm aware of was a Mopar and it's a big block...>>

383 is a popular size in small block Chevies....but not a factory size. 350 block, 400 crank, bored .060" over, I think.(maybe .030 over)

<< thought the biiiiiiiig 8.1L V8 (496) was related to the 502, and was a big block? Now imagine that beast of an engine in an... Aurora? (what's the biggest car Chevy makes now anyways?)>>

496 is not a factory Chevy engine. You get that size by boring a 454(or 427, they're the same block) .060" over and using a 4.25" stroke(aftermarket) crank. Popular kit for big-blocks.
Edit: There is a new, truck-only 8.1 liter engine. 3/4 and bigger trucks only.

<<The 502 was the engine in the early 70's Caddy land yachts right? >>

No. Cadillac had their own 500" engine during the 70's. No relation to the Chevy big block.

<<Not sure which cars used the 502, I know that it's still used in marine applications. MerCruiser has an EFI 502 ci engine that can really make a boat scoot.>>

No car ever came with a 502. Over the counter only. It just came out in the 90's, long after they stopped putting big blocks in cars.
The 502 has the same stroke as the 454, but a 4.5" bore, instead of 4.25". One cool thing about the 502 block is that you can get a 4.25" stroker crank kit like you make a 496 with, (but with diff. pistons, obviously) and put it in a 502 block and have a 540" monster. Throw some Dart heads on there and you can make 850+ horsepower, EASILY, without turning over 6500 rpms.

<<There's no substitute for cubic inches, but I hear the Marauder will eak 300 horsepower and 300 lb-ft of torque out of that 4.6.>>

It's supercharged. That's just like having more cubic inches.



 

LAUST

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2000
8,957
1
81


<< hehehe...a battle over just who is the oldest and most outdated engine... >>


Once educated in Motor history you'd be amazed in how OLD OHC actually is, OHV has stayed alive for a reason, with EVERYTHING in life there is a COST, EVERYTHING PERIOD. the cost to OHC is less torque curve = Crap in heavier vehicles. OHV may not produce the high HP numbers with less cubes but what good is that in a 5300 truck like mine? NONE.

I thought the biiiiiiiig 8.1L V8 (496) was related to the 502, and was a big block? Now imagine that beast of an engine in an... Aurora? (what's the biggest car Chevy makes now anyways?)

The 502 was the engine in the early 70's Caddy land yachts right?


The 8.1 (496) is related to the 502, the 8.1 found in the new trucks is powered by the Vortec fuel injection and the parts more closly resemble the previous 454, but it's powerband due to the increased cubes and better CAM make for a very nice and Long no peak curve found in crap mobiles like the Tundra

the 502 now is all about aftermarket, Most kits are carburated, but the Ram-Jet has a really neat F.I. on it where the computer is all powered right there at the F.I. unit, (Makes it really nice to pop in say an old 69 Camaro )

I think the Caddies had a 501 in em actually... ???

RB: 383, 413, 426 Wedge (not Hemi), 440

IMHO the 440 with Indy Heads was better then the Hemi anyway
 

kamiam

Banned
Dec 12, 1999
2,638
0
0


<<

<< "...the oldest and most outdated engine..."

What an ass. Not everyone wants to pay a premium for parts and diagnostics just to have something "high tech!" There's a good reason those engines were in production for 30 or more years. And 30 years of producing the same engine results in really cheap replacement and performance parts.

It's like the bicycle. It wasn't too many years after the first "safety bike" was built that it reached a point where much improvement was hard to come by. Now they're just getting ridiculous with technology to improve that design marginally.
>>

quite frankly,Onery you're the one being the ass:frown:...I know alot of the history of the 283 and the 302...back in the late 50's and early 60's, my father used to race pontiacs (389 tripower) and a mildly warmed over 283 would eat a stock 389 for lunch...a very good building block for the enthusiast of yesterday and today...you're problem, sir, is being able to recognize sarcasm when you read it.:frown: ..and by the by, I prefer the "RB" engines, myself...sitka I didn't know about the 2 383 variants with the exception of the 361-383-400 family...I knew about the history of the "max wedge" (413, 426) engines and the evolution into the HEMI...but you forgot to mention the role of the earlier hemi.. the 352 or 358...something like that

EDIT:about the "Police package" the police interceptors were available with the 440 OR the Hemi... it wasn't known as the "440" interceptor package...these engines came stock with bigger cams and the bigger heads(bigger intake/exaust valves) better exaust systems, better gear ratio packages in the rear end ect...
>>

 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,303
15
81


<< 383 as referred to in Chevy terms is a stroker motor, IIRC. >>



A 383 is a 350 Chevy block with a crankshaft from a 400 Chevy, giving it a longer stroke, hence the term "stroker". A 377 would be a 400 block (larger cylinder bore) with a crankshaft from a 350. This would be a "destroked" motor, and is nice because if built right, it can rev like crazy.

The displacement has nothing to do with whether an engine is "big block" or "small block". It has more to do with deck height, wall thickness, and casting design. For example, Chevy has a small-block 400 and a big-block 396... which are two totally different engines.
 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
"...you're problem, sir, is being able to recognize sarcasm when you read it."

Guilty as charged! I was just waiting for some dick head rice burner to put their two cents in, and I thought you were him! Damn! I hope I called off Guido and Bruno in time! :Q
 
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