Smart Cars coming to US

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
9,002
115
106
I recently saw in the news where the Smart group is launching their ForTwo models here in the US this year. A dealer network has recently been announced, even though it seems a bit spread out.

I got to looking into smaller cars as I may be in the market in the next year or so. I will have limited funds to get a smaller car to complement my Caprice for my driving needs. You really can't beat the Caprice in terms of durability and comfort for the kind of driving that I do, but at $3-4/gallon with a 50+ mile commute some days, it gets expensive.

Truth is, car prices even for the smallest/cheapest of vehicles has been going up quite a bit as of late. The Korean offerings used to be under 10k for the base models, but now that isn't the case. Whether this is because of exchange rates, inflation, or just improved quality among smaller vehicles is anyone's guess and can be argued all day long. (This is a bit OT though)

My question is this: How will it do here in the US? What about the future of similar cars of this class? It clearly fulfills a need as gas is expensive and smaller cars are easier to maneuver in urban environments. But will Americans buy them? We are used to larger vehicles as some, like myself, are pretty tall and are more comfortable with the leg room. There is also sort of a cultural norm in that "bigger is better" when it comes to perceptions of vehicles, people equating sheer mass with safety. Then there are also the technical specifications. Although it is pretty capable for most driving, it is limited to a max speed of 90mph, which some might see as pretty anemic. Interstate driving is pretty common, so I don't know how that might be viewed.

So, will this catch on, linger around as a small niche, or go the way of the Yugo?
 

warmodder

Senior member
Nov 1, 2007
553
0
0
I'm thinking that because the average size of cars in the US is quite a bit bigger, the smart is going to be about as safe as driving around in a go-kart. Top gear had a segment about them.
 

alpineranger

Senior member
Feb 3, 2001
701
0
76
I drove a smart car that was a canadian import/conversion. They are reasonably quick and agile at city speeds. Feels like a much larger car from the inside. Feels safe and secure but once you take a look at how little crumple space there is you won't want to be in anything but a low speed accident in one. Fuel economy is not great and that transmission is very irksome. It's really unrefined (jerky shifts, strange take-off) and there's an unnerving rolling back before you get started. I drive manual transmission cars often so I'm used to the rolling but in the smart it feels like you're not in control of that. I've heard the us spec smarts will have worse fuel economy and the same annoying transmission. With a low enough price it would make a good in-town commuter car but I don't think it's a suitable choice for highway driving.

Given the way they've had production problems ever since they started making the things I think that oversupply will not be a problem. For all those reasons I'd say small niche car.
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
I've seen them on the streets here. IMHO the PRICE is the problem...if they were $15k or whatever, people would buy them.
 

SearchMaster

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2002
7,791
114
106
Originally posted by: jagec
I've seen them on the streets here. IMHO the PRICE is the problem...if they were $15k or whatever, people would buy them.

I thought they started at ~$12K?
 

dwcal

Senior member
Jul 21, 2004
765
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The Smart is really overbuilt for safety. At 1800 lbs, it only weighs 160 lbs less than a Lotus Elise and the same as a Chevy Metro, and it's almost 4 ft shorter than either one.

Mileage isn't that great with the gas engine; a Prius or Civic hybrid uses less gas. One thing that's good for the city is easy parking. If you park perpendicular to the curb, you could probably fit two smarts into one parking meter spot. It all depends if cities allow it since they make the parking laws. Many cities don't even allow two motorcycles to share a parking meter (they'll ticket both bikes if you share a spot).
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
9,002
115
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Originally posted by: jagec
I've seen them on the streets here. IMHO the PRICE is the problem...if they were $15k or whatever, people would buy them.

Starts at just shy of $12,000, which is one of the lowest for a new car in the US. The next step up with most of the wanted features is just shy of $14,000. The Hyundai Accent, Kia Rio, Chevy Aveo, Toyota Yaris, Honda Fit are all in the same price range as this. Only the Accent I think is less than the ForTwo. (Most don't contain A/C for the base model, which if you live in the South doesn't count as a viable vehicle ) IMHO, it is decently priced compared to the rest in its segment, but it should be closer to $10k. Prices have just gone up lately.
 

Demon-Xanth

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
20,551
2
81
Why it works it Europe:
50MPG gas, 70MPG diesel

Why it fails in the US:
33MPG gas, premium recommended

...why not get a Civic?
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
Originally posted by: SearchMaster
Originally posted by: jagec
I've seen them on the streets here. IMHO the PRICE is the problem...if they were $15k or whatever, people would buy them.

I thought they started at ~$12K?

Really? I had heard that someone was trying to sell them for something lame like $30k. Guess I was wrong.

Why's the mileage so low on the US model, though?
 

dwcal

Senior member
Jul 21, 2004
765
0
0
Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
Why it works it Europe:
50MPG gas, 70MPG diesel

Why it fails in the US:
33MPG gas, premium recommended

...why not get a Civic?

EPA changed the mileage test so that it's closer to real world driving. All the 2008's have lower mileage than the same model 2007's. Yaris dropped from 34 mpg city to 29 mpg city. A Smart would probably get 38 mpg city under the old test.

Is 50 mpg for the Euro model combined or city? Apples to apples.
 

Demon-Xanth

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
20,551
2
81
Originally posted by: dwcal
Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
Why it works it Europe:
50MPG gas, 70MPG diesel

Why it fails in the US:
33MPG gas, premium recommended

...why not get a Civic?

EPA changed the mileage test so that it's closer to real world driving. All the 2008's have lower mileage than the same model 2007's. Yaris dropped from 34 mpg city to 29 mpg city. A Smart would probably get 38 mpg city under the old test.

Is 50 mpg for the Euro model combined or city? Apples to apples.

They changed from a Mercedes engine to a Mitsubishi for the US because the European engine didn't meet US emissions specs.

http://www.smartusa.com/smart-...al-specifications.aspx
33/41 MPG

The European is 46/71
http://www.smart.com/-snm-0135...579e-bdbd-b6d27cdd58ba
 

ViviTheMage

Lifer
Dec 12, 2002
36,189
87
91
madgenius.com
My GF was in love with them when we were in europe, they were everywhere! They could park anywhere, seriously...I would rather have a diesel personally.

EDIT : Also, was at a smartcar thing here in Minnesota, and they apparently have a long waiting list for them.

The gf has pictures of the smartcar when it was here in MN.
 

warmodder

Senior member
Nov 1, 2007
553
0
0
Originally posted by: Apex
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
They look like a death trap.

They're not, actually. The crash structure is incredibly strong and well thought out.

This I believe is why they're a death trap. The car may have extreme rigidity tolerances, but your body can't take the de-acceleration. It may be safer in europe where the average size of automobiles are smaller, but in the US with big suv's and cars, I doubt you'd stand a chance in one of these.
 

dwcal

Senior member
Jul 21, 2004
765
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0

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,134
2,446
126
Originally posted by: dwcal
Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
Why it works it Europe:
50MPG gas, 70MPG diesel

Why it fails in the US:
33MPG gas, premium recommended

...why not get a Civic?

EPA changed the mileage test so that it's closer to real world driving. All the 2008's have lower mileage than the same model 2007's. Yaris dropped from 34 mpg city to 29 mpg city. A Smart would probably get 38 mpg city under the old test.

Is 50 mpg for the Euro model combined or city? Apples to apples.

Yeah... My MINI Cooper is supposedly only supposed to get 37 highway and 28 city now... compared to 40 highway and 32 city with last year's rules.

I've been averaging 39 MPG in mixed driving, which tells me that the older numbers were more accurate for this car.
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
9,002
115
106
Originally posted by: 308nato
I thought you might like to browse this news story and the comments

Nice article. The comments are good too, but some are pretty assinine. I do drive a larger vehicle and can tell you survivability isn't a function of mass. Where the difference lies is performance in low-speed collisions. You don't have to replace half the car for a bumper hit.

Hopefully the price will come down a bit on these later on when I am truly in the market for another vehicle.
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
9,002
115
106
Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
Originally posted by: dwcal
Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
Why it works it Europe:
50MPG gas, 70MPG diesel

Why it fails in the US:
33MPG gas, premium recommended

...why not get a Civic?

EPA changed the mileage test so that it's closer to real world driving. All the 2008's have lower mileage than the same model 2007's. Yaris dropped from 34 mpg city to 29 mpg city. A Smart would probably get 38 mpg city under the old test.

Is 50 mpg for the Euro model combined or city? Apples to apples.

They changed from a Mercedes engine to a Mitsubishi for the US because the European engine didn't meet US emissions specs.

http://www.smartusa.com/smart-...al-specifications.aspx
33/41 MPG

The European is 46/71
http://www.smart.com/-snm-0135...579e-bdbd-b6d27cdd58ba

I couldn't tell from the second site, but did they use the same testing method/conditions to test the European version? Or was that rated by an agency over there?

Honestly though, I wish they would offer a diesel option here.
 

DougK62

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2001
8,035
6
81
I would be the first person in line for one of these if we were getting them with a traditional manual transmission. The "automated" manual that they have in there is a real pain to drive. Other than that and the funky interior, they're great.

 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
No, it's pathetically small, not very safe, not fast, and its price is far too high for these things. I would have a hard time imagining why it would be bought over an entry sub-compact. If it was $8500, I could see it taking off.
do drive a larger vehicle and can tell you survivability isn't a function of mass.
It is when you are against another car, that's simple physics of momentum.
 

overst33r

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
5,761
12
81
Originally posted by: Skoorb
No, it's pathetically small, not very safe, not fast, and its price is far too high for these things. I would have a hard time imagining why it would be bought over an entry sub-compact. If it was $8500, I could see it taking off.
do drive a larger vehicle and can tell you survivability isn't a function of mass.
It is when you are against another car, that's simple physics of momentum.

Why not watch the video in this thread and prove yourself wrong?

Here's one just for fun... smart car @ 70mph vs concrete wall

 
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