Smart Home & Home Automation discussion thread

[IndyColtsFan]

Wellllllllllll I'm officially an Echo owner now! (three years after my original posting about it, haha)

I stopped by Whole Foods today to see what they had lowered their prices on thanks to the Amazon purchase (which turned out to be a LOT of things, yay!) & saw a big display of Echos on sale for $80 off right when I walked in. $99 bucks for black or silver/white. It's been on my list for awhile & for the price, I decided to jump on it. Went with the lighter-colored full unit with the speaker built-in.

The voice recognition is amazingly accurate. Lots of skills available...Wink, Spotify, Audible, etc. I'm not really a voice guy & don't like talking for commands, I vastly prefer manual entry via a smartphone or whatever, but the audio recognition system is just so far ahead of stuff like Siri that I've actually been using it quite a bit because it actually works...it really only takes the first day of using it to get the hang of it (ex. how loudly to speak across the room, the common phrases you can use, etc.).

I've used my buddy's when I've visited his house, so I'm familiar with them, but it is an amazingly handy little gadget for personal use. What's really super cool is how usable it is for older & disabled people. We got my grandma an Echo (speaker/tube model) a year or two ago & she absolutely loves it...she's going blind, is in a wheelchair, lives in a nursing home, is going on 100 years old, and we just added an Amazon TV with Echo to her room and she raves about it...she can operate the TV now all by herself without any fuss, use the Echo for reading audiobooks, setting wake-up alarms, and all kinds of stuff. It really is an amazing piece of technology with real-world useful applications.

When I broke my foot last fall, Echo and SmartThings were a godsend.

 

[Charmonium]

I guess I'm the only person here with computers all over the house. If I need to look something up or order something I just go to the nearest machine. I can't see how a voice response system could help me. I mean maybe if I needed to know how many tablespoons are in a gallon it might be useful to just yell at Alexa. Or maybe if I'm at the fridge and think that I need to get more waffles I could have it put that on a todo list or something. But I can't really think of many practical uses.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I guess I'm the only person here with computers all over the house. If I need to look something up or order something I just go to the nearest machine. I can't see how a voice response system could help me. I mean maybe if I needed to know how many tablespoons are in a gallon it might be useful to just yell at Alexa. Or maybe if I'm at the fridge and think that I need to get more waffles I could have it put that on a todo list or something. But I can't really think of many practical uses.

Computers all over the house didn't make sense for me starting in the early part of this decade. They're power hungry and if you're using them to control certain things, there is inevitably a learning curve for other family members. For example, I got rid of my HTPCs around 2010 because they just didn't make sense for me - a Roku box at each TV with a beefy backend server is a better approach IMO.

Nevertheless, back to topic. If I want to look something up, I can use one of my tablets anywhere in the house. Alexa can do it, but I prefer reading stuff like that unless I need a very quick answer. However, you realize we're talking about home automation, right? I can easily control many of the devices in my house with my voice rather than having to open an app on a phone or tablet.

There are many practical uses:
1. The shopping list feature is something both my wife and I use - we'll shout at Alexa to add stuff to a shopping list we both have access to, so if one of us goes to the store, the updated list is always handy.
2. Control of devices around the house, including status reports for some devices.
3. Amazon released whole-house audio for the Echo ecosystem last week.
4. There's an app called Reverb and I can issue voice commands to my Echos when I'm not at home. As an example, I was a little late coming home one night from work and had a gaming event schedule with brothers and friends. I simply picked up my phone, pressed reverb, and said "Alexa, turn computer on." The system was booted and ready for me when I walked in. I can use this same app to command Alexa to change my thermostat, arm my security system, get status reports from my cameras, etc.
5. As I mentioned above, when I broke my foot, it was extremely helpful. Once I hobbled over to my chair and propped my foot up, it was easy for me to have Alexa turn on lights/fans/adjust AC, etc.
6. You can quickly ask for weather, traffic, etc. without having to mess with going to a computer or pulling out a tablet/PC if you're in a hurry.

Is any of this essential? Obviously, no. But if you're into home automation, I'd say it is close to essential. As a matter-of-fact, when comparing HA systems, many people make choices simply based on the system's application. IMO, that is very shortsighted. Again, IMO, you should rarely, if ever, need to use your HA manufacturer's app to control your home. It should all be done via voice or dashboards displayed on phones, tablets, etc. It should be so accessible that it should be easy for anyone to use. Voice control can do that and will only get better over time.

HA started as a hobby to dabble in for me in 2014. Now, much of my house is completely automated and I'm building more and more rules. Even the wife is now onboard and that was half the battle.

 

[cKGunslinger]

I picked up an an Echo last sale and finally got around to setting it up. I'm really liking it. Enough so to consider buying 2-3 Dots to place around the house.

That said, the Echo has a horrible speaker (not sure why so many people think it sounds good.) It certainly has no bass, even compared to those $30 mini Bluetooth speakers. So if I did get a few Dots, what are the best options for bluetooth/3.5mm speakers? I don't want to bother setting up a quality 2.0 bookshelf speaker system in each room. I was hoping to find a decent self-powered tower speaker to place in the corner of the rooms with the Dots, but I don't see too many with good reviews. Any suggestions?

I was thinking some speakers like this, but a bit more elegant. Something with some decent power (a 6" subwoofer in the base, maybe) and a classic wood finish.

 

[Kaido]

I guess I'm the only person here with computers all over the house. If I need to look something up or order something I just go to the nearest machine. I can't see how a voice response system could help me. I mean maybe if I needed to know how many tablespoons are in a gallon it might be useful to just yell at Alexa. Or maybe if I'm at the fridge and think that I need to get more waffles I could have it put that on a todo list or something. But I can't really think of many practical uses.

So here's my take:

1. I've been wanting a "real" voice command system for a looooooong time, primarily for the cool factor. But nothing really existed before Echo...back in the day, you had to setup remote mics, a DIY IFTTT system, mediocre voice recognition systems, and so on. It was a mess & didn't work very well.

2. I'm more of a keyboard, macro, and manual-command guy myself; even when the Echo came out, I ended up cancelling my pre-order, mostly because I couldn't see myself really using it.

3. Curiosity got the better of me IRL at $99, haha.

4. The system is actually spectacular in actual use.

5. I am also very happy with the sound quality. Definitely one of the better tube speakers on the market! I mean, it still sounds like a portable speaker, but it's good enough that I didn't feel the need to hook it up to another set of speakers.

6. I still don't do ALL of my commands & controls via voice, but there is an awful lot of features that I've started using. Music is sooooo easy - "Computer, play Thunder by Imagine Dragons on Spotify".

7. I did end up also picking up an Echo Dot to play with, which has basically a laptop speaker in it, but also has a line out & Bluetooth for connecting your own speakers to it.

TL;DR - don't write it off entirely, it's actually pretty dang cool IRL

 

[Charmonium]

I can see using it for home automation. The voice interface could be useful if you have units in every room you normally use. I'm not that heavily into it just yet. I have a ton of old X10 equipment and I've been very slow to migrate to z-wave.

But for the things I have migrated, I might use an echo for some purposes. Generally I have automated procedures like timers on the lights when motion is detected.

For controlling things away from home I use the Smart Things app. When it works, it works reasonably well. And I installed a CO/smoke detector that interfaces with the hub so it will alert me if there are any issues at home. The alarm system does the same thing but that first has to go through the monitoring company.

I guess the thing I really don't like about those things is having them always listening. I know they only activate when you speak the key word but still, it bothers me.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I picked up an an Echo last sale and finally got around to setting it up. I'm really liking it. Enough so to consider buying 2-3 Dots to place around the house.

That said, the Echo has a horrible speaker (not sure why so many people think it sounds good.) It certainly has no bass, even compared to those $30 mini Bluetooth speakers. So if I did get a few Dots, what are the best options for bluetooth/3.5mm speakers? I don't want to bother setting up a quality 2.0 bookshelf speaker system in each room. I was hoping to find a decent self-powered tower speaker to place in the corner of the rooms with the Dots, but I don't see too many with good reviews. Any suggestions?

I was thinking some speakers like this, but a bit more elegant. Something with some decent power (a 6" subwoofer in the base, maybe) and a classic wood finish.

One thing to keep in mind - currently, the whole house audio solution from Amazon does not support Bluetooth speakers. I don't know if this will change or not, but if this interests you, I'd stay away from Bluetooth speakers for now.

There is an interesting speaker called Vaux (https://www.amazon.com/Cordless-Spe...1?ie=UTF8&qid=1504522978&sr=8-1&keywords=Vaux) that has a space for the Echo Dot in the top, where you can hardwired the Dot into it. The Vaux also has a battery built-in with up to 6 hours of play time. I bought one on sale last week and I'll say the design is slick and it sounds "OK," but it doesn't have much bass power. For me, it is probably an OK solution to pipe audio into other rooms during parties, since the volume would be low anyway.

Creative makes some powered Bluetooth speakers which also have aux jacks - I bought the D80 several months ago to test as a Bluetooth speaker because I assumed that when Amazon released whole house audio, BT speakers would be supported. Fortunately it has an aux jack but unfortunately, it is on the front of the unit. Higher-level models might have the jack on the back but I'm not sure. The one you linked does look good and also does support wired connections; I'll have to take a look at it but in my case, I need more compact and less visible speakers so it may not pass the WAF.

 

[cKGunslinger]

One thing to keep in mind - currently, the whole house audio solution from Amazon does not support Bluetooth speakers. I don't know if this will change or not, but if this interests you, I'd stay away from Bluetooth speakers for now.

There is an interesting speaker called Vaux (https://www.amazon.com/Cordless-Spe...1?ie=UTF8&qid=1504522978&sr=8-1&keywords=Vaux) that has a space for the Echo Dot in the top, where you can hardwired the Dot into it. The Vaux also has a battery built-in with up to 6 hours of play time. I bought one on sale last week and I'll say the design is slick and it sounds "OK," but it doesn't have much bass power. For me, it is probably an OK solution to pipe audio into other rooms during parties, since the volume would be low anyway.

Creative makes some powered Bluetooth speakers which also have aux jacks - I bought the D80 several months ago to test as a Bluetooth speaker because I assumed that when Amazon released whole house audio, BT speakers would be supported. Fortunately it has an aux jack but unfortunately, it is on the front of the unit. Higher-level models might have the jack on the back but I'm not sure. The one you linked does look good and also does support wired connections; I'll have to take a look at it but in my case, I need more compact and less visible speakers so it may not pass the WAF.

That looks interesting. If the sound is decent, it might be a pick-up for the kitchen or something. I hadn't heard about the Bluetooth limitation, but I was making sure everything has a aux port for backup.

I ended up ordering this to try and it should be here next week.

And Kaido above also commented on how good the Echo speaker is. That's making me concerned that maybe mine is broken or defective. My cell phone speaker has better response that my Echo speaker. It's extremely tinny with absolutely no low frequency.

 

[Kaido]

That looks interesting. If the sound is decent, it might be a pick-up for the kitchen or something. I hadn't heard about the Bluetooth limitation, but I was making sure everything has a aux port for backup.

I ended up ordering this to try and it should be here next week.

And Kaido above also commented on how good the Echo speaker is. That's making me concerned that maybe mine is broken or defective. My cell phone speaker has better response that my Echo speaker. It's extremely tinny with absolutely no low frequency.

The large Echo speaker (the tube) is pretty decent; the small Echo (the Dot) is laptop-esqe (but then, it's really designed to be connected to other speakers.

I mean, as a speaker, I wouldn't say it's the most amazing thing I've ever heard in my life - in my comparison, I said it sounds like one of those portable speakers, like one of those Bluetooth models - vocals & treble are very clear, but yours definitely isn't defective - there's pretty much zero low-frequency output from it ("there's no replacement for displacement!"). I'd be curious to see if they (or a third party) releases a compatible wireless subwoofer to account for the lack of low-end. That's how Bose does it...they have a mid-woofer that acts as a subwoofer & it actually sounds pretty great IRL. But anyway, the Echo does fill the room up nicely, and for a system where you can ask it to play a song verbally & it does it, and all I had to do was plug it in & set it up on a shelf...that ain't bad!

There are rumors of a 2nd-gen Echo coming out with more advanced features (re: the price drop), so I'm curious to see what they're going to do with that. I am probably going to pick up a few more Dots (bedroom/kitchen/bathroom) for now. The bathroom one would be nice for when you're taking a shower & getting ready...I have an overhead LED light/nightlight (pretty cool, glows blue at night!) that has a built-in Bluetooth speaker, but I have to setup my phone to play music or a podcast before I hop in the shower, so it'd be cool to just do a voice command & have it work that way, or if you're relaxing in the tub, have it read a book to you or whatever.

I was also pretty concerned about the privacy aspect (listening all the time), but then I remembered what Snowden said about how all smartphones out there are already compromised, and since I carry that all the time & it has a mic on it, oh well haha. It's a creepy aspect of the technology to think about, but the voice recognition system works so well that my family is already unwilling to give it up lol.

 

[Kaido]

Well, my family was surprisingly quick to adopt the Echo, moreso than any other piece of Smart Home technology I've brought home, aside from the Schlage smart deadbolt with keypad. My current setup: (yay for the sale at Whole Foods! got an extra $20 off for buying 3 Dots)

1. Echo on ledge between living room & dining room
2. Dot in Kitchen
3. Dot in bedroom #1
4. Dot in bedroom #2
5. Dot in bathroom

I have a really cool setup in the bathroom...at Home Depot, they sell a ceiling LED ringlight that has a white LED plus a blue LED that acts as a nighlight; it also doubles as a ceiling vent ($99 for 90 CFM & $149 for 100 CFM), and then there's the bonus feature, built-in Bluetooth speakers - it's a pretty slick setup! The Dot had no trouble recognizing it as a speaker source, so now I can listen to music/news/podcasts/audiobooks while I'm getting ready in the shower, brushing my teeth, etc. Really convenient for kids too because you can tell them to brush their teeth until the song ends, haha.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Home-Net...ith-LED-Light-and-Remote-7130-06-BT/301051660

The Dots in the bedroom are handy both for alarms (morning wakeup & naps) and to listen to something until you fall asleep, ex. "Alexa, read Huck Finn" or for some music while you're getting dressed or doing your morning calisthenics. The kitchen Dot has turned out to be surprisingly useful, especially for named timers. I usually just use my iPhone using Timer+ (lets you set multiple timers), but when my hands are covered in raw meat or cookie dough or whatever, it's so much more convenient to just verbalize a timer command haha.

Definitely looking forward to integrating more stuff. I will probably pick up a Logitech Hub or two to control my living room TV & home theater setup (projector + receiver + Roku) once I read up on compatibility a little bit more.

 

[Paratus]

So I posted this in OT before @RossMAN kindly pointed this thread out to me:

Thinking about doing HA for my house. I want to have the option to control:

• Plugs
• Lights
• Cameras
• Thermostat
• Garage door

What should I or can I buy? What should I be looking out for? What about security?

Other thoughts:

We already have:

• ADT Pulse with two wireless cameras it texts us alerts and pics when doors open or alarms go off.
• A Harmony Ultimate remote - think this has some automation options.
• An Apple TV - weren't they adding some automation controls to these?
• Chamberlain Garage Door (think there is an automation module for my model)

Looking to control stuff with our phones (iPhone house) not necessarily a voice controlled puck.
Thanks!

 

[IndyColtsFan]

So I posted this in OT before @RossMAN kindly pointed this thread out to me:

Sorry, I forgot to respond over the weekend. I'll give you a quick answer and hopefully expand tonight.

Being an AT user, you're probably more on the technical side and I'd recommend SmartThings. I believe it may still be on sale at Amazon for $50. The reasons I'd go for ST over Wink are:

1. I think Wink is on shakier financial grounds.
2. Wink is a closed system, where you rely on them to add device support. ST is an open platform with a large developer community adding new device handlers and smart apps all the time.
3. In terms of automation rules, no contest - ST coupled with the webCoRE smart app is light years ahead of anything Wink can do.

I have about 150 devices on ST and am pretty happy with it. I've got some cool automations running, which I can detail tonight if interested.

 

[Linflas]

Sorry, I forgot to respond over the weekend. I'll give you a quick answer and hopefully expand tonight.

Being an AT user, you're probably more on the technical side and I'd recommend ST. I believe it may still be in sale at Amazon for $50. The reasons I'd go for ST over Wink are:

1. I think Wink is on shakier financial grounds.
2. Wink is a closed system, where you rely on them to add device support. ST is an open platform with a large developer community adding new device handlers and smart apps all the time.
3. In terms of automation rules, no contest - ST coupled with the webCoRE smart app is light years ahead of anything Wink can do.

I have about 150 devices on ST and am pretty happy with it. I've got some cool automations running, which I can detail tonight if interested.

ST is Samsung Smartthings hub? If I get one of these and replace a couple of my wall outlets with smart outlets can I program them to turn the power on/off like an old school timer that plugs into them? I currently have an Ecobee3 thermostat, Ring Pro doorbell, and an Amazon Echo so am looking for compatibility with these as well.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

ST is Samsung Smartthings hub? If I get one of these and replace a couple of my wall outlets with smart outlets can I program them to turn the power on/off like an old school timer that plugs into them? I currently have an Ecobee3 thermostat, Ring Pro doorbell, and an Amazon Echo so am looking for compatibility with these as well.

Yes, you can program outlets to be on timers. ST is Samsung SmartThings. It is compatible with Echo and ecobee for sure but I'm not 100% sure if there is integration with Ring (I don't think there is but might be mistaken). Here is an example of an automation I run:

1. The wife and I leave home in the morning. ST detects when both of our phones leave our geofence (defined as a 1 mile circle around the house) and automatically arms the ST security system, which in turn arms Blink cameras around the house. It also sets our ecobee to resume the preprogrammed schedule (we often manually change it at night) and turns the outlet next to my wife's sink off, as she sometimes forgets to unplug curling irons, flat irons, etc.
2. At 6 PM, ST turns on a hall pole lamp since the hall is dark. Garden landscape lights also come on at sunset.
3. If we're not home by 7 PM, ST engages a vacation light simulator to make it appear as if someone is home.
4. At 9 PM, ST changes the hall light to dark blue rather than white. This provides light to see in the hall but won't wake anyone up if a bedroom door is opened and someone is asleep.
5. At 10:30, if everyone is home, the hall light turns off and garden lights go off at 11 PM.
6. If ST detects we've entered our geofence after 10:30 PM, certain lights throughout the house automatically come on, including hall lights and bedroom lights. These lights are set to go off after 30 minutes.
7. The ST security system disarms as long as one of us is detected within the geofence.

I need to refine some of this particular automation because there are some use cases which I haven't implemented - for example, if one of us is home and the other doesn't come home until after 10:30, I wouldn't want our nightstands to come on. There are a few scenarios like that I need to implement.

I've done many other cool things as well. For example, we had a Game of Thrones premiere party this year. I had 2 Hue Go lights hidden in two corners of the living room and when 9 PM rolled around and the show started, they came on with one being blue (Ice) and another being red (Fire). I also cycled the garden lights between blue and red every minute and did the same to the upstairs hall light. It was really cool.

 

[Linflas]

So do I understand correctly that the ST hub itself can live down with my network panel and does all these things through smart devices and sensors you have placed around your house? Is the communication with the outlets, switches etc done through WiFi?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

So do I understand correctly that the ST hub itself can live down with my network panel and does all these things through smart devices and sensors you have placed around your house? Is the communication with the outlets, switches etc done through WiFi?

It mainly communicates via zigbee and zwave, depending on the product. There are cloud-to-cloud integrations as well, such as with Lutron and Logitech Harmony. Anyway, any wall-powered zigbee and zwave device acts as a repeater so you can extend those meshes to reach the entire house. I believe (though could be wrong but don't have time to double check) that Zwave Plus devices can repeat even if on battery power.

 

[Kaido]

Amazon has a new 10" tablet featuring Alexa Hands Free: (it's basically an Echo tablet)

http://gizmodo.com/amazons-newest-gadget-is-a-tablet-thats-also-an-echo-1818523985

$150 due out October 11th:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01J6RPGKG

 

[Kaido]

So I posted this in OT before @RossMAN kindly pointed this thread out to me:

So you're in luck, Nest just released a bunch of relevant stuff today:

Nest Alarm system: ($500 starter kit available)
https://nest.com/alarm-system/overview/

* Nest Guard Alarm: Keypad, motion sensor and the brains of the system.
* Nest Detect: The sensor that looks out for doors, windows and rooms.
* Nest Tag: The easiest way to arm and disarm. Without a passcode.

Nest Hello video doorbell: (due out early 2018)
https://nest.com/doorbell/nest-hello/overview/

Nest Cam IQ Outdoor model:
https://nest.com/blog/2017/09/20/nest-cam-iq-heads-outside/

 

[RossMAN]

So you're in luck, Nest just released a bunch of relevant stuff today:

Nest Hello video doorbell: (due out early 2018)
https://nest.com/doorbell/nest-hello/overview/

Nest Cam IQ Outdoor model:
https://nest.com/blog/2017/09/20/nest-cam-iq-heads-outside/

Hmmn I'm usually anti-Nest but these two products have piqued my interest. Any idea how much cloud hosting is?

 

[Kaido]

Hmmn I'm usually anti-Nest but these two products have piqued my interest. Any idea how much cloud hosting is?

I use Dropcams & Nest Cams for easy server room monitoring at a bunch of sites I service. It's basically a dollar per day of video storage. $10 a month for 10 days of recording or $30 a month for 30 days of recording:

https://nest.com/cameras/nest-aware/

They make solid equipment & have a solid service. Really depends on what you're looking for. A lot of my clients don't want monthly fees, so they just go with a Swann or Zmodo or whatever system with one of those little Tivo-style DVR's.

 

[RossMAN]

I use Dropcams & Nest Cams for easy server room monitoring at a bunch of sites I service. It's basically a dollar per day of video storage. $10 a month for 10 days of recording or $30 a month for 30 days of recording:

https://nest.com/cameras/nest-aware/

They make solid equipment & have a solid service. Really depends on what you're looking for. A lot of my clients don't want monthly fees, so they just go with a Swann or Zmodo or whatever system with one of those little Tivo-style DVR's.

As you can probably guess I'm adamantly opposed to paying a monthly fee, I'd rather pay a higher upfront fee than monthly. Unless they offered a mid-tier plan say $15/mo for 1 or 2 Nestcams and doorbell cam.

Fingers crossed they offer such a deal in 2 months when BF/CM arrive.

 

[Linflas]

Anyone know if there is a smart outlet made to replace a 1/2 switched outlet i.e. a standard outlet that one receptacle is connected to a light switch and the other receptacle is always hot? I've tried searching multiple ways but keep coming up with 1 always on/1 smart fed from a single hot/neutral.

 

[Paratus]

As you can probably guess I'm adamantly opposed to paying a monthly fee, I'd rather pay a higher upfront fee than monthly. Unless they offered a mid-tier plan say $15/mo for 1 or 2 Nestcams and doorbell cam.

Fingers crossed they offer such a deal in 2 months when BF/CM arrive.

Got to agree with that. Bought a TiVo Roamio just to avoid the monthly guide fees when we cut the cord.

 

[Paratus]

So it looks like SmartThings doesn't work with Chamberlain garage doors currently?

Anyone know if that's still true?

 

[RossMAN]

So it looks like SmartThings doesn't work with Chamberlain garage doors currently?

Anyone know if that's still true?

I *think* it's possible but requires some creative hacks, found this with a Google search:
https://community.smartthings.com/t...lamp-control-for-liftmaster-chamberlain/49150