Smell of Marijuana Enough to Allow Warrantless Home Searches?

chris9641

Member
Dec 8, 2006
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http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sc-dc-0113-court-search-20110112,0,7017935.story
WASHINGTON… Police officers who smell marijuana coming from an apartment can break down the door and burst in if they have reason to believe this evidence might be destroyed, several Supreme Court's justices suggested Wednesday.

In the past, the high court has said police usually cannot enter a home or apartment without a search warrant because of the 4th Amendment's ban on "unreasonable searches and seizures."

But the court's conservatives said during arguments in a drug case Wednesday they favored relaxing that rule when police say they have an urgent need to act fast. Police had banged on the apartment door of Hollis King in Lexington, Ky. about 10 p.m. five years ago after they detected the smell of marijuana. They broke in the door when they heard sounds inside and arrested King for marijuana and cocaine possession.

Last year, the Kentucky Supreme Court ruled this search unconstitutional, but the justices sounded as though a majority will reverse that ruling.

"Everything done here was perfectly lawful," commented Justice Antonin Scalia.

"There's nothing illegal about walking down the hall and knocking on somebody's door, and if, as a police officer, you say, 'I smell marijuana', and then your hear the flushing, there's probable cause," said Chief Justice John Roberts.

Several of the court's liberal justices, who grew up in apartments in New York City, expressed surprise.

If the court rules this way, "aren't we just simply saying they (police) can walk in whenever they smell marijuana without bothering with a warrant," asked Justice Sonia Sotomayor. "We start with the strong presumption that the 4th Amendment requires a search warrant," added Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

Since the war on drugs began in the 1980s, the Supreme Court has steadily given police more leeway to search cars, travelers and baggage. But the justices have been reluctant to permit searches of homes without a warrant.

The key issue in Kentucky v. King is whether an "exigent" or emergency circumstance allows the police to enter a resident without a warrant. Obama administration lawyers joined the case on the side of the state's prosecutors.

The police who broke into the apartment "reasonably believed that there was destruction of evidence occurring inside," said Ann O'Connell, an assistant to the Solicitor General.

Ginsburg said it was unclear what prompted the police to act. "It was kind of vague. They heard movement…There was nothing about a toliet flushing."

"It's our position that the court should assume there was an exigency in this case," O'Connell replied.

Scalia said the police can't go wrong by knocking loudly on the door. "Criminals are stupid," he said, and they often cooperate with police when they are not required to do so. They might open the door and let officers inside, or if not, the police can break in.

Do you think police officers should be allowed to enter a home in circumstances like these without a warrant, or is this a violation of the 4th amendment?
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
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lol imo total violation of the 4th. smelling something is not good enough for justification. considering so many things can be similar in smell
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
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http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sc-dc-0113-court-search-20110112,0,7017935.story


Do you think police officers should be allowed to enter a home in circumstances like these without a warrant, or is this a violation of the 4th amendment?

Hell no.

It is way to vague, they can basically bust down anyones door and say "I smelled pot". A pot smoker flushing evidence is nowhere near grounds to leave the entirety of the 4th amendment up to a police officers nose and/or ethics.
 

Nintendesert

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2010
7,761
5
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lol imo total violation of the 4th. smelling something is not good enough for justification. considering so many things can be similar in smell



If you think weed doesn't have a distinct smell, you're not smoking enough.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,352
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Scalia and Roberts thinks its perfectly OK while Ginsburg and Sotomayor thinks a warrant is required.

 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
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If you think weed doesn't have a distinct smell, you're not smoking enough.

if you don't think other things can smell like marijuana or vice versa YOU are not smoking enough.

I've smoked a huge variety of marijuana and I've had stuff that smells like popcorn ffs.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
If you think weed doesn't have a distinct smell, you're not smoking enough.
Or too much. I've never smell pot that turned out to be something else.

On the other hand, if you can smell it burning, then the evidence is likely being destroyed very slowly.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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The whole question in my mind is that a smell is in the nose of the beholder. Is it a turd, is it plain, is it simply burning leaves outside? And worse yet, given the fact the growing consensus is, that pot should not be illegal in the first place, that seems to be a poor place to draw any lines in constitutional questions.

As for me, Scalia has never met any of my sniff tests in terms of judicial reasoning. And in facts he reeks of being an idiot to the point he has become a an EPA superfund clean up waste dump.

Take my word for it, my nose knows.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,027
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It should be. Although Smell is quite subjective. Any evidence of illegal drug use should be enough.
 
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
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Doesn't the smell of a corpse allow cops to enter a dwelling without a warrant? Or other distinct chemical smells? Or accidental fire smoke? But on the other hand in an apartment complex I have serious doubts whether they can pinpoint the source with enough accuracy to warrant busting down doors. Anyway, the bothersome thing about this isn't that they can bust down a door if they smell pot, it's that they can bust down a door over pot.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
That's fucking retarded, especially if they are in an apartment complex.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
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Doesn't the smell of a corpse allow cops to enter a dwelling without a warrant? Or other distinct chemical smells? Or accidental fire smoke? But on the other hand in an apartment complex I have serious doubts whether they can pinpoint the source with enough accuracy to warrant busting down doors. Anyway, the bothersome thing about this isn't that they can bust down a door if they smell pot, it's that they can bust down a door over pot.

have you ever smelt rotting and decaying flesh? it is a smell you will forever remember. marijuana can and does smell like a ton of different stuff. if you don't believe me come over and i got some stuff that smells like candy and another that smells like lemony shoe polish. Burnt they do not smell exactly the same.
 
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
4
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have you ever smelt rotting and decaying flesh? it is a smell you will forever remember. marijuana can and does smell like a ton of different stuff. if you don't believe me come over and i got some stuff that smells like candy and another that smells like lemony shoe polish. Burnt they do not smell exactly the same.

I've smelled both, and I've never mistaken either for anything else.
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,513
221
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There's certainly no exigent circumstances requiring immediate entry - I can tell you that would not fly in New Hampshire's supreme court..
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
9,001
113
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Hell no.

It is way to vague, they can basically bust down anyones door and say "I smelled pot". A pot smoker flushing evidence is nowhere near grounds to leave the entirety of the 4th amendment up to a police officers nose and/or ethics.
THIS. Something as subjective as human smell should not be allowed to be used as end run around amendment 4. A person's home should be sacred.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
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That's too much power to give a cop. I'm still not decided on whether pot should be legalized or not, but allowing a cop to kick someone's door down because he thinks he smells something and someone in the building happens to be flushing a toilet is a far cry from where we started with Amendment IV.
 
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
4
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You've smelt both kinds of weed I have? Can you name them?

No, I've smelled both dead things and weed. And I've never smelled burnt weed that didn't smell like burnt weed. But I'm not looking to argue over this. Smelling pot shouldn't be enough to bust a door down over.
 

Venix

Golden Member
Aug 22, 2002
1,084
3
81
What actually happened is that the police were pursuing a drug dealer who had just sold cocaine to an undercover officer. They followed him into the apartment building and heard a door slam, but weren't sure which of two apartments he had entered. They incorrectly chose King's apartment based on the marijuana smell and noises coming from inside.

Allowing the police to freely enter homes based solely on something as subjective and unprovable as smell is certainly outrageous and prone to abuse, but I don't think it's too unreasonable to allow smell to be considered as one component in determining if exigent circumstances exist. Of course we'll have to see exactly how the Court rules to determine the full ramifications of its opinion.

In any case, it's good to see that everyone in this thread opposes the idea of warrantless home searches. Allow the Fourth Amendment to be trampled and we'll eventually wind up like the UK, where the police spy on you without a warrant with helicopter-mounted infrared cameras, then send in the SWAT team because you have a space heater in your garage.
 
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