Smoking Brakes?

[BlackTigers]

Escort ZX2
Manual
103k

Today me and a few friends went on a VERY spirited adventured down into a valley, and I was incredibly hard on my brakes.

After a trip down a hill, we came a light that was red, and I was slowing down from (way too fast), way too quickly.

When I hit the bottom and the light, white smoke was coming from the sides of my car, up front.

I immediately killed my car, and all my fluids were fine, there's oil...everything was fine. Coolant levels were normal as well.

Could this have been the brakes? I imagine it's got to be, I was running them ridiculously hard. After driving the rest of the day, there hasn't been any more smoke.

Errr?

 

[LOUISSSSS]

lol smoke from brakes is normal after heavy braking. do you know HOW HOT the rotors and pads get during normal driving?? imagine slamming on the brakes a few times, they will burn your finger!

the smoke is normal.

 

[punjabiplaya]

Watch a night race. I think glowing brakes are awesome.

 

[sdifox]

Obviously not a fan of Initial D

PS Op you should check your brake system, especially the fluids and hoses.

 

[bruceb]

Agreed ... Watch any of the races, the brakes will get cherry red ... That is why they have brake ducts to direct air to them to help cool them. But why, did you not also use engine braking by downshifting ? ? That is what you should be doing in a case like that.

 

[LTC8K6]

Downshift on long steep downhill runs. Always.

Next for you was loss of your brakes altogether...

 

[StageLeft]

Probably brakes, but if they were hot enough to smoke they should have smelled bad. I've had semi-seized rotors twice creating smoking brakes and the second time at least, when I looked closer, the rotor was red

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
lol smoke from brakes is normal after heavy braking. do you know HOW HOT the rotors and pads get during normal driving?? imagine slamming on the brakes a few times, they will burn your finger!

the smoke is normal.

No, smoke from the brakes is not in any way "normal". It is expected when someone abuses the brakes well beyond the appropriate working temperatures for the brake pads, but it is never "normal".

If the pads are smoking, this is one of the last warning signs before heat-related brake failure and should not be ignored as a "normal" occurrence. Your advice could well cause an accident if someone assumed that smoking brakes were OK and that they could continue just fine.

To the OP: Yes, it was your brakes. You exceeded the maximum working temperature of the car's brake pads. Chances are that the pads are at least slightly glazed now and may even require replacement. At the very least, you should inspect the brake pads and check for signs if glazing. If necessary, replace the pads. Example of glazed brake pads.

If you plan on driving that hard in the future, you should be sure to use high-temperature brake pads in the future. I can guarantee that the stock pads on an Escort are not performance-oriented and were not designed to withstand high temperatures.

ZV

 

[BlackTigers]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
lol smoke from brakes is normal after heavy braking. do you know HOW HOT the rotors and pads get during normal driving?? imagine slamming on the brakes a few times, they will burn your finger!

the smoke is normal.

No, smoke from the brakes is not in any way "normal". It is expected when someone abuses the brakes well beyond the appropriate working temperatures for the brake pads, but it is never "normal".

If the pads are smoking, this is one of the last warning signs before heat-related brake failure and should not be ignored as a "normal" occurrence. Your advice could well cause an accident if someone assumed that smoking brakes were OK and that they could continue just fine.

ZV

As soon as I saw the smoke, we pulled over and let the car cool down for 15 minutes or so.

The way home I was VERY easy on them.

I just didn't know if it was possible for that to happen. Tiem for better pads and rotors, me thinks.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: BlackTigers
As soon as I saw the smoke, we pulled over and let the car cool down for 15 minutes or so.

The way home I was VERY easy on them.

I just didn't know if it was possible for that to happen. Tiem for better pads and rotors, me thinks.

:thumbsup:

I think you did right (aside from the whole excessive speed on public roads thing, but you'll get enough lectures for that from other people I'm sure).

ZV

 

[BlackTigers]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: BlackTigers
As soon as I saw the smoke, we pulled over and let the car cool down for 15 minutes or so.

The way home I was VERY easy on them.

I just didn't know if it was possible for that to happen. Tiem for better pads and rotors, me thinks.

:thumbsup:

I think you did right (aside from the whole excessive speed on public roads thing, but you'll get enough lectures for that from other people I'm sure).

ZV

Eh, I'm young, and stupid. We were the only car there, deserted valley roads, lots of turns and a ton of hills.

The odd thing is, I never even attempted this before I got my 5 speed.

 

[CRXican]

Funny stuff. I had an idiot in a Nissan Altima that wouldn't get out of my way on a canyon (one of the most narrow, windy in the area). It was no sweat for my me as I have semi-race pads and could downshift. His brakes were smoking when we got to the stop sign at the end of the canyon. I couldn't help but laugh and shake my head.

 

[jRaskell]

Originally posted by: bruceb
Agreed ... Watch any of the races, the brakes will get cherry red ... That is why they have brake ducts to direct air to them to help cool them. But why, did you not also use engine braking by downshifting ? ? That is what you should be doing in a case like that.

If he was braking hard enough to overheat his brakes, then any amount of engine braking would have been trivial. Engine braking really only applies to light braking scenarios. In more spirited driving, the engine can't even remotely compete with the vehicles brake system.

 

[LTC8K6]

On hills, you engine brake somewhat differently. You get in the lower gear at the top of the hill, so that you never get going too fast. You don't wait until you need to slow down.

The idea is to control your speed in the first place. You might stay in third gear all the way down the hill, for example.

Engine braking is very effective on hills in preventing you from going too fast and overheating your brakes.

 

[jRaskell]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
On hills, you engine brake somewhat differently. You get in the lower gear at the top of the hill, so that you never get going too fast. You don't wait until you need to slow down.

The idea is to control your speed in the first place. You might stay in third gear all the way down the hill, for example.

Engine braking is very effective on hills in preventing you from going too fast and overheating your brakes.

Apparently the term 'spirited driving' is foreign to you, so let's put it in more plain english.

When driving fast and aggressively, engine braking is pointless.

 

[spidey07]

Zenmervolt and others have hit it on the head. You were about to lose braking and that is NOT a good place to be. There isn't much to tell you they are overheating other than the smoke. You will have brakes and then all of a sudden you have almost no braking and the pedal goes to the floor.

I almost killed myself when I overheated my brakes. Don't do that.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: jRaskell

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
On hills, you engine brake somewhat differently. You get in the lower gear at the top of the hill, so that you never get going too fast. You don't wait until you need to slow down.

The idea is to control your speed in the first place. You might stay in third gear all the way down the hill, for example.

Engine braking is very effective on hills in preventing you from going too fast and overheating your brakes.

Apparently the term 'spirited driving' is foreign to you, so let's put it in more plain english.

When driving fast and aggressively, engine braking is pointless.

As an autocrosser and DE driver, I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you. So does every other experienced track driver.

I don't know a single person who tracks their car and doesn't use engine braking in conjunction with normal braking to control speed.

Or maybe you don't consider a track day to be "fast and aggressive".

ZV

 

[ViviTheMage]

bust out the s'mores.

it's normal

 

[jRaskell]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
I don't know a single person who tracks their car and doesn't use engine braking in conjunction with normal braking to control speed.

Of course you don't. On the track, it simply isn't possible to NOT use engine braking. If you're heel/toeing to keep the engine within it's optimal powerband, you are going to get some engine braking whether you want it or not. Since it's unavoidable, you have to be able to control it. That doesn't mean it's desirable. That aspect is much more subjective, and there are racers who actually want it there, and racers who do not.

In fact, in the motorcycle racing world there is a relatively new clutch system that eliminates engine braking altogether (it only actually grips when power is being transmitted), and it has been rather controversial. Some racers like it, other racers do not like it.

As to my original statement, I was using fast and aggressive to elaborate on the concept of spirited driving (which was readily apparent). Track driving is MUCH more than spirited driving, which involves pushing the envelope to an extent that should NEVER occur on the street.

In spirited driving, engine braking is NOT a necessity and was not even being recommended within the context of spirited driving.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: jRaskell

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
I don't know a single person who tracks their car and doesn't use engine braking in conjunction with normal braking to control speed.

Of course you don't. On the track, it simply isn't possible to NOT use engine braking. If you're heel/toeing to keep the engine within it's optimal powerband, you are going to get some engine braking whether you want it or not. Since it's unavoidable, you have to be able to control it. That doesn't mean it's desirable. That aspect is much more subjective, and there are racers who actually want it there, and racers who do not.

In fact, in the motorcycle racing world there is a relatively new clutch system that eliminates engine braking altogether (it only actually grips when power is being transmitted), and it has been rather controversial. Some racers like it, other racers do not like it.

As to my original statement, I was using fast and aggressive to elaborate on the concept of spirited driving (which was readily apparent). Track driving is MUCH more than spirited driving, which involves pushing the envelope to an extent that should NEVER occur on the street.

In spirited driving, engine braking is NOT a necessity and was not even being recommended within the context of spirited driving.

And even in spirited driving, you still use engine braking. While you're not going at it as hard as on a track and while you may not be heel-and-toeing, you're still going to be downshifting and keeping the engine in lower gears. It's not like you're popping the transmission into neutral every time you hit the brakes. You use engine-braking in sedate driving. You use engine braking in track driving. And you use engine braking when driving between those two extremes. It's a useful technique that is most certainly recommended in the appropriate circumstances regardless of driving style.

As far as slipper clutches in motorcycles (that "relatively new" clutch system that has been around for more than three decades), they reduce but do not eliminate engine braking. I don't know if you've noticed this or not, but motorcycles are just a little bit different than cars. Motorcycles use slipper clutches because it is vastly easier for the rear wheel on a motorcycle to lose traction, which has disastrous results. The slipper clutches reduce the tendency of the lightly-loaded rear wheel to hop or lock under a combination of cornering and engine-braking which thereby improves stability. Slipper clutches are certainly not "controversial" among racers, though I can imagine they may well be controversial among street riders.

Sorry, but you're just flat wrong here and there's no way you can weasel out of it.

ZV

 

[LOUISSSSS]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
lol smoke from brakes is normal after heavy braking. do you know HOW HOT the rotors and pads get during normal driving?? imagine slamming on the brakes a few times, they will burn your finger!

the smoke is normal.

No, smoke from the brakes is not in any way "normal". It is expected when someone abuses the brakes well beyond the appropriate working temperatures for the brake pads, but it is never "normal".

If the pads are smoking, this is one of the last warning signs before heat-related brake failure and should not be ignored as a "normal" occurrence. Your advice could well cause an accident if someone assumed that smoking brakes were OK and that they could continue just fine.

To the OP: Yes, it was your brakes. You exceeded the maximum working temperature of the car's brake pads. Chances are that the pads are at least slightly glazed now and may even require replacement. At the very least, you should inspect the brake pads and check for signs if glazing. If necessary, replace the pads. Example of glazed brake pads.

If you plan on driving that hard in the future, you should be sure to use high-temperature brake pads in the future. I can guarantee that the stock pads on an Escort are not performance-oriented and were not designed to withstand high temperatures.

ZV

i still think smoke coming from your brakes are normal when doing heavy heavy braking.

that is similar to saying there is a loud rumble coming coming from my exhaust and engine when i floor the accelerator. The rumble may not be normal for normal driving, but it is normal when you accelerate hard. just a simple example.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
i still think smoke coming from your brakes are normal when doing heavy heavy braking.

that is similar to saying there is a loud rumble coming coming from my exhaust and engine when i floor the accelerator. The rumble may not be normal for normal driving, but it is normal when you accelerate hard. just a simple example.

Example fail.

Once again, brakes only smoke when you exceed the maximum allowable pad temperature. It's only "normal" for brakes to smoke in the sense that it's "normal" to have oil showing up in your coolant. Both are the "normal" indication that something has gone wrong.

If your brakes are smoking, you have chosen the wrong pads and are operating unsafely. You are right on the ragged edge of brake failure and are playing russian roulette with your safety. If that's acceptable and "normal" in your little world, so be it.

ZV

 

[LTC8K6]

When driving fast and aggressively, engine braking is pointless.

You aren't doing it right then, and you'll be slower than those who are, imo.

 

[LTC8K6]

Besides, we are talking about coming down a mountain. You should engine brake when coming down a mountain.

There's no room for argument, imo.

The only exceptions would be for slippery road surfaces.

 

[jRaskell]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
It's a useful technique that is most certainly recommended in the appropriate circumstances regardless of driving style.

ZV

So, to be perfectly clear, you're in complete agreement with what LTC8K6 wrote with regards to the OPs scenario?

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
On hills, you engine brake somewhat differently. You get in the lower gear at the top of the hill, so that you never get going too fast. You don't wait until you need to slow down.

The idea is to control your speed in the first place. You might stay in third gear all the way down the hill, for example.

Engine braking is very effective on hills in preventing you from going too fast and overheating your brakes.