Sneak Peak of Tegra 4 (Codename Wayne)

[sontin]

nVidia's CES press conference is in three weeks and they announced in an investor call that they will show Tegra 4.

Chiphell has published a slide which could be true or not - like always. D:

http://www.chiphell.com/thread-616838-1-1.html

 

[dagamer34]

Glad to know the GPU will properly support Hi DPI displays and USB 3.0 support makes me happy as well. This is what Windows RT was meant to run on. Though, I do wish they would ditch the slow SDIO interface and move up to SATA and real SSD controllers. Maybe in a few years...

 

[Eug]

At this point, what I'm most concerned about are power characteristics.

There are too many super-fast CPUs out there that suck mobile devices' batteries dry in no time.

 

[MrX8503]

Uninterested until we see some hard numbers. Tegra has been lackluster compared to competitors.

 

[Roland00Address]

Needs 1600p if most android tablets will stay at 16x10 ratio. Else we will get 1920x1200 screens instead of 2560x1600p such as the Nexus 10

 

[ponyo]

Needs 1600p if most android tablets will stay at 16x10 ratio. Else we will get 1920x1200 screens instead of 2560x1600p such as the Nexus 10

It's what caught my eye as well. Tegra 4 won't be able to power the N10 display. I guess this means Samsung isn't going to sell their display to anyone else and keep it for themselves for their Galaxy Tab 3.

 

[s44]

At this point, what I'm most concerned about are power characteristics.

There are too many super-fast CPUs out there that suck mobile devices' batteries dry in no time.

4+1 kept Nvidia at least competitive on battery even though T3 was on 40nm vs 32/28nm.

Assuming the 4 is A15, what's the +1 going to be? The same core but on a lower-power process (as on T3)? A7? A9 (is this even possible on the compatibility side)? Some custom hybrid a la Krait or Swift?

Very curious how this will work relative to the 4+4 A15/A7 designs that Samsung and others seem to be shooting for.

 

[BenSkywalker]

..

 

[djgandy]

Tegra 3 is a 2011 SoC, it wiped the floor with everything else that came out that year. I guess you could question their launch window, but in terms of performance at launch the last two Tegra parts have been rather dominant.

No it didn't. Tegra 3 has awful power and heat characteristics, both of which are VERY important for a SoC. Might as well say i7's wipe the floor with Tegra 3's. Pointless comparison.

 

[Medu]

No it didn't. Tegra 3 has awful power and heat characteristics, both of which are VERY important for a SoC. Might as well say i7's wipe the floor with Tegra 3's. Pointless comparison.

How many other quadcores were build at 40nm? It's competitors were later and thus had access to better processes. That won't happen this time around.

 

[BenSkywalker]

..

 

[openwheel]

Tegra 3 has performed quite well especially battery life, look at all the Nexus 7 results.

 

[bigrash]

I'm very happy with my Nexus 7 peformance. Can't wait for Tegra 4.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Uninterested until we see some hard numbers. Tegra has been lackluster compared to competitors.

Agreed. Half of the hype was because of the nvidia factor. Somehow people thought this would translate into an iPad killer in graphics. Not only has that not been the case, but the CPU performance is meh in the face of Qualcomm and Samsung, and TI.

 

[bonkers325]

Tegra 3 has performed quite well especially battery life, look at all the Nexus 7 results.

i charge my nexus 7 once a week. i used it for 7 consecutive hours streaming netflix over wifi, from 90%->5%. at full brightness to boot! i also flash the latest CM nightly every morning and set my RSS reader to sync every 30 minutes.

 

[lothar]

Uninterested until we see some hard numbers. Tegra has been lackluster compared to competitors.

This. Nvidia has a big history of always over promising and under delivering.
They also have this thing where they purposely take old drivers of their competitors and use it in their comparisons.
I take all Nvidia statements and benchmarks with a grain of salt until they're confirmed by reviewers.

 

[runawayprisoner]

According to the slide T4 supports 3840x2160 display resolutions

I can't seem to find this... where does it say T4 support 3840 x 2160?

And does such a display interface exist that has enough bandwidth for such a monstrous resolution at 60Hz? Last I checked, the max we could deal with was around 45Hz on a 3840 x 2400 monitor... that required dual-link DVI.

 

[Bateluer]

I'm more interested on whether this will include their Icera LTE modem. Tegra 3 was stunted in smartphones because it didn't have native LTE, and by the time it got LTE, Nvidia's competitors had caught up and left it behind.

Same thing would easily happen to Tegra 4 if Icera comes 6 months after T4.

 

[dagamer34]

I'm more interested on whether this will include their Icera LTE modem. Tegra 3 was stunted in smartphones because it didn't have native LTE, and by the time it got LTE, Nvidia's competitors had caught up and left it behind.

Same thing would easily happen to Tegra 4 if Icera comes 6 months after T4.

Not going to see integrated LTE until Grey, and that's not until the end of 2013 or beginning of 2014.

 

[s44]

Not going to see integrated LTE until Grey, and that's not until the end of 2013 or beginning of 2014.

Wrong.

The second part is our 4G LTE modem. In order for us to really gain a larger footprint in smartphones, we have to integrate 4G LTE modem into our application processor. This is a brand-new market for us. Although we are already shipping some quantities of discrete LTE modems, the vast majority of the marketplace is really integrated. And so our -- we have a next-generation application processor integrated with a next-generation LTE. And this quarter, we hope to tape out and race it to market.

 

[dagamer34]

Wrong.

Uhh... a chip taping out this quarter means it's not going to be ready for almost a year. Exynos 5 Dual taped out last November if I remember correctly. They said production would start in Q2, and we didn't see it in a product until last month.

We are still several months away from seeing a Tegra chip with integrated LTE. Tegra 4 on the other hand will probably be in some phones announced at MWC to ship by the middle of the year.

 

[BenSkywalker]

..

 

[Bateluer]

Not going to see integrated LTE until Grey, and that's not until the end of 2013 or beginning of 2014.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5859/nvidia-icera-410-lte-modem-passes-att-network-validation

I assume since Icera is passing validations, that its at least taped out and could be paired with a Tegra 4 in a phone. Maybe not be integrated, but its better than having to beg Qualcomm for LTE modem chips.

 

[dagamer34]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5859/nvidia-icera-410-lte-modem-passes-att-network-validation

I assume since Icera is passing validations, that its at least taped out and could be paired with a Tegra 4 in a phone. Maybe not be integrated, but its better than having to beg Qualcomm for LTE modem chips.

Not to be a stickler here, but you still aren't refuting my point. I said we still aren't going to see an integrated solution until the end of next year. Icera was likely working on LTE chips, which is really nothing new (and didn't require nVidia to buy them), but including an LTE baseband on die means it's an entirely separate SKU from Wayne (which is why it's being released much later).

As to why I am harping on the point that being "integrated" makes it different is as follows:
1) More space for battery since there are no separate dies.
2) Tighter integration with the SoC and control of radios.
3) Hopefully better battery profile.

And lastly, avoid the Qualcomm tax as much as possible, as if an OEM is forced to use a Qualcomm baseband, they might as well use a Qualcomm SoC while they're at it (less business for nVidia).

I assume it's only a matter of time until Apple and Samsung are building their own LTE basebands as I'm sure Samsung hated using the Snapdragon S4 in the American Galaxy S III, whereas the MDM9615 IP block was already in MSM8960, and Apple had to wait for MDM9615 before shipping the iPhone 5. No company wants to be willingly caught in such a vice grip.

 

[MrX8503]

Tegra 3 is a 2011 SoC, it wiped the floor with everything else that came out that year. I guess you could question their launch window, but in terms of performance at launch the last two Tegra parts have been rather dominant.

Wasn't it a late 2011 SoC? If it was dominant, it wasn't for very long. The A5 was an early 2011 chip and while its CPU isn't as fast, its GPU was faster than NVIDIA's offering.

By early 2012 tegra 3 was old news. Currently, NVIDIA has nothing that's high end. I'd wait for benchmarks and tests before considering T4 a competitor.