So Blu-Ray won?

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: Extelleron

I think Microsoft made the right choice by not betting the farm on either format. If Blu-Ray really wins, which it currently seems like it might, Sony's bet might have paid off, but it was still a bet.

Sony is obviously in a different position than MS of course... Sony's future may depend on the success of Blu-Ray, and they needed the PS3 as a "trojan horse" to get BR into millions of homes.

Uh, they put BR into the PS3 mainly to support 50 gb game discs. Playing BR movies is a benefit just like the PS2 playing dvds.

wow I hope you really don't believe that.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: Randum
blockbuster only carrying blu ray...interesting...
anyone see that best buy tv/ps3 combo deal? It was basically 600 off the purchase of a bravia and ps3 w game and BR movie. SO it was like a free ps3!

details???

 

[Jmman]

Ugh, my local Blockbusters have HDdvd and bluray.....

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Allen Iverson

Originally posted by: tw1164

Originally posted by: ch33zw1z
If Sony wins, no high def pron

I think they're already release some.

I've heard HD pron isn't that good. Because in SD, you can't see all the imperfections in the body, but it HD all of them become glaringly visible. pronstars aren't that pretty without all that makeup and the right camera angles. not that I know anything

Razor bumps and ass pimples FTL

yeah, whats up w/the ass pimples?! thought lube was hypo-allergetic?

 

[LegendKiller]

This is a non-issue.

BLockbuster is losing about 10% of it's revenue to Netflix and others, annually. They have lost about 1.8 billion in last 3 years and only eeked out a 2.5% profit margin last year. Netflix is twice as profitable and has a share price 5x as high as BBL. Not to mention Netflix has a market cap that's higher than BBL.

BBL is a falling company. It's only deploying BR in 25% of its stores and about 20% of those will also carry HD-DVD. Additionally, they are still renting online. The B&M business model is failing and this is a good indication of that, so big deal?

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: Extelleron

I think Microsoft made the right choice by not betting the farm on either format. If Blu-Ray really wins, which it currently seems like it might, Sony's bet might have paid off, but it was still a bet.

Sony is obviously in a different position than MS of course... Sony's future may depend on the success of Blu-Ray, and they needed the PS3 as a "trojan horse" to get BR into millions of homes.

Uh, they put BR into the PS3 mainly to support 50 gb game discs. Playing BR movies is a benefit just like the PS2 playing dvds.

wow I hope you really don't believe that.

:thumbsup:

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: Extelleron

I think Microsoft made the right choice by not betting the farm on either format. If Blu-Ray really wins, which it currently seems like it might, Sony's bet might have paid off, but it was still a bet.

Sony is obviously in a different position than MS of course... Sony's future may depend on the success of Blu-Ray, and they needed the PS3 as a "trojan horse" to get BR into millions of homes.

Uh, they put BR into the PS3 mainly to support 50 gb game discs. Playing BR movies is a benefit just like the PS2 playing dvds.

That's what Sony wants you to believe.

It's more like: They put BR in there to increase Blu-Ray's market share. More space for games is an added benefit.

Granted, I'm sure Sony is happy to have more space for games, but I highly doubt Sony is spending $100's on BR drives for the PS3 JUST for games. If Sony really wanted to do what would be best for games, they would have ditched the BRD and given the PS3 more memory, or at least faster memory (22.4 GB/s of graphics bandwidth is definately not enough for a 7800GTX 512 in disguise)

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
This is a non-issue.

BLockbuster is losing about 10% of it's revenue to Netflix and others, annually. They have lost about 1.8 billion in last 3 years and only eeked out a 2.5% profit margin last year. Netflix is twice as profitable and has a share price 5x as high as BBL. Not to mention Netflix has a market cap that's higher than BBL.

BBL is a falling company. It's only deploying BR in 25% of its stores and about 20% of those will also carry HD-DVD. Additionally, they are still renting online. The B&M business model is failing and this is a good indication of that, so big deal?

if you think this is a non-issue you are nuts.

sure BB has been loseing money but they are sitll the largest rental stores around. this is huge for blu-ray.

IF BB starts to stock the new release of blu-ray next to the regular DVD it is going to have some impact. though i do not think enough to drive HD-dvd out of business.

 

[SaoFeng]

http://www.engadget.com/2007/0...tings-starting-to-rot/

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Originally posted by: Allen Iverson
Hopefully Blu-Ray wins. It will be good to see sony do well again.

And I hope they Sony collectively break their necks, as an overdue punishment for being one of the greediest and shameless companies on the planet.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
This is a non-issue.

BLockbuster is losing about 10% of it's revenue to Netflix and others, annually. They have lost about 1.8 billion in last 3 years and only eeked out a 2.5% profit margin last year. Netflix is twice as profitable and has a share price 5x as high as BBL. Not to mention Netflix has a market cap that's higher than BBL.

BBL is a falling company. It's only deploying BR in 25% of its stores and about 20% of those will also carry HD-DVD. Additionally, they are still renting online. The B&M business model is failing and this is a good indication of that, so big deal?

if you think this is a non-issue you are nuts.

sure BB has been loseing money but they are sitll the largest rental stores around. this is huge for blu-ray.

IF BB starts to stock the new release of blu-ray next to the regular DVD it is going to have some impact. though i do not think enough to drive HD-dvd out of business.

Fine, they are the largest with 5500 stores. Of which only 1,250-1700 will carry BR, of which 250 already carry and will continue to carry HD-DVD. Blockbuster isn't just losing money. Their share price is down significantly from highs. Market cap is down significantly (not even 900m). The whole B&M business model is failing. It's old, decrepit, and costly.

Netflix on the other hand increased revenues by 50% last year. Their market cap is 1.3bn and increasing. Stock price isn't at all-time highs, but not far from it. They are just as profitable as BBL by $ and 2x as profitable by %, validating the B&M model dying.

Additionally, those who are adopting BR and HD-DVD right now aren't really renters. Early adopters BUY, not rent as much. If they do they are savvy enough to know that they only have to pay a a bit more than a per-diem rental to get a whole month of rentals without having to deal with late fees and PITA returns. These people will either have access to the whole catalog online through BBL or the same through netflix. Heck, when my brother bought his DVD player in 1997 he bought every movie he could just in case the format went under. I remember when BBY only carried 20 dvds. Nobody in the rental market thought DVD would take off and many thought it would fail. You didn't see widespread DVD adoption for a year or so.

If you consider where the market is going and who BR and HD-DVD are catering to, this is a non-event.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Good morning, Ballbuster! Welcome to Blu-Ray rot!
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2061664&enterthread=y

 

[MrPickins]

The format war is far from over IMO.

Just to reiterate this again to help stop the confusion:

POSSIBLY NSFW One pic of woman in a "nighty."
Porn will be made in Blu-Ray format.It doesn't matter anyway, the internet has all most people need. (Not that I know anything about that. )

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
This is a non-issue.

BLockbuster is losing about 10% of it's revenue to Netflix and others, annually. They have lost about 1.8 billion in last 3 years and only eeked out a 2.5% profit margin last year. Netflix is twice as profitable and has a share price 5x as high as BBL. Not to mention Netflix has a market cap that's higher than BBL.

BBL is a falling company. It's only deploying BR in 25% of its stores and about 20% of those will also carry HD-DVD. Additionally, they are still renting online. The B&M business model is failing and this is a good indication of that, so big deal?

if you think this is a non-issue you are nuts.

sure BB has been loseing money but they are sitll the largest rental stores around. this is huge for blu-ray.

IF BB starts to stock the new release of blu-ray next to the regular DVD it is going to have some impact. though i do not think enough to drive HD-dvd out of business.

Fine, they are the largest with 5500 stores. Of which only 1,250-1700 will carry BR, of which 250 already carry and will continue to carry HD-DVD. Blockbuster isn't just losing money. Their share price is down significantly from highs. Market cap is down significantly (not even 900m). The whole B&M business model is failing. It's old, decrepit, and costly.

Netflix on the other hand increased revenues by 50% last year. Their market cap is 1.3bn and increasing. Stock price isn't at all-time highs, but not far from it. They are just as profitable as BBL by $ and 2x as profitable by %, validating the B&M model dying.

Additionally, those who are adopting BR and HD-DVD right now aren't really renters. Early adopters BUY, not rent as much. If they do they are savvy enough to know that they only have to pay a a bit more than a per-diem rental to get a whole month of rentals without having to deal with late fees and PITA returns. These people will either have access to the whole catalog online through BBL or the same through netflix. Heck, when my brother bought his DVD player in 1997 he bought every movie he could just in case the format went under. I remember when BBY only carried 20 dvds. Nobody in the rental market thought DVD would take off and many thought it would fail. You didn't see widespread DVD adoption for a year or so.

If you consider where the market is going and who BR and HD-DVD are catering to, this is a non-event.

Regardless of what you say, it IS going to have some effect... just not as much as some in this thread are saying.

Blockbuster is still the biggest force in the rental industry, and if most of the HD movies they carry are Blu-Ray, that is definately going to help out Blu-Ray and hurt HD-DVD. The average joe who bought a PS3 and wants to try out its blu-ray drive is going to go down to his local blockbuster and look at the selection. He'll rent a movie, see how great it looks, and from then on he'll be hooked on Blu-Ray. He'll rent alot of movies, but he'll also buy a few as well. As he and others buy more Blu-Ray movies, studios see this and move to Blu-Ray rather than going / sticking with HD-DVD. With more studios and more movies behind Blu-Ray, more people will buy Blu-Ray players.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Well, the HD-A2 sold like crazy the short time it was $200 at Crutchfield. By the holiday retails season, $200 should be standard and there may be $100-150 sales. Dropping the five-free-mopvies deal and rolling the savings into the player would get the thing selling like crazy......even as just an upconverting player with bonus HD capabilities.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
i thought HD meant hard drive

HDD ... Hard Disk Drive .

 

[Sqube]

To be honest, I just want this whole battle to be over with. It's boring to me, and it'd be nice to know that a high-def optical disc will work no matter what.

You know, the next-gen equivalent of DVDs.

 

[0roo0roo]

blockbuster lost its relevance long ago.
right now its still the race towards being the next laser disc.
super tight drm is not a selling point in much of the world.

 

[spacejamz]

Pretty much every major news agency ran the blockbuster story yesterday (the Wall Street Journal had on their main webpage today)...everyone standing on the sidelines of this format war only heard one message: Blockbuster prefers Blu Ray. The details of the story don't matter to the average person...

Anyone who was thinking about buying an HD DVD player is now having second thoughts...It doesn't mean that they will buy a blu ray player, but the fact that many of them wont be able to get HD DVD's at their local blockbuster will make a difference (and please spare us the "I don't rent at blockbuster story' - just because you don't doesn't mean that nobody else does)...

HD DVD took a major PR beating yesterday. Many people who don't care about this format war now got a message stating that blu ray is winning.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: spacejamz
Pretty much every major news agency ran the blockbuster story yesterday (the Wall Street Journal had on their main webpage today)...everyone standing on the sidelines of this format war only heard one message: Blockbuster prefers Blu Ray. The details of the story don't matter to the average person...

Anyone who was thinking about buying an HD DVD player is now having second thoughts...It doesn't mean that they will buy a blu ray player, but the fact that many of them wont be able to get HD DVD's at their local blockbuster will make a difference (and please spare us the "I don't rent at blockbuster story' - just because you don't doesn't mean that nobody else does)...

HD DVD took a major PR beating yesterday. Many people who don't care about this format war now got a message stating that blu ray is winning.

Typical FUDD. If people would have seen the CBS interview with the COO of Blockbuster and had not have just listened to ignorant FUDD, they would have realized the BBI is stocking BR *only* because they percieve the market demand as that right now. This is only driven by, according to the COO, the PS3 owners who prefer to rent rather than buy (further helping the case that HD-DVD is more for owners, not renters).

I love how you run around posting this ignorant crap without anything to back it up. On the other hand, it's a shame you do since you are killing the only open format out there.

Next time you want a region free HD media, let me know, because I know your BR won't play it while mine will.

 

[imported_Mike]

I :heart: Sony

I also :heart: my Xbox 360 with HD-DVD add-on.

I hope Sony wins.

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Typical FUDD. If people would have seen the CBS interview with the COO of Blockbuster and had not have just listened to ignorant FUDD, they would have realized the BBI is stocking BR *only* because they percieve the market demand as that right now. This is only driven by, according to the COO, the PS3 owners who prefer to rent rather than buy (further helping the case that HD-DVD is more for owners, not renters).

I love how you run around posting this ignorant crap without anything to back it up. On the other hand, it's a shame you do since you are killing the only open format out there.

Next time you want a region free HD media, let me know, because I know your BR won't play it while mine will.

You can live in your little world of denial...check out the threads on this topic at AVS or the Highdef forums... Even some of the diehard HD DVD fan boys like you are realizing that yesterday was not a good day for HD DVD.

'Perceived' market demand??? do you know what the sales ratio of the rentals of blu ray vs HD DVD in those 250 pilot stores that have been offering high def disk since NOV of last year is? Blu ray was rented 70% of the time. Wow, that is eerily close to the 67:33 percentage that blu ray enjoys in disk sales over HD DVD this year.

The tide of the format war took a major turn yesterday...

In case you missed the press release yesterday, here is quote from one of Blockbuster's Senior VPs: "The consumers are sending us a message. I can't ignore what I'm seeing," Matthew Smith, senior vice president of merchandising at Blockbuster, told The Associated Press.

This is the reason why Blockbuster is not offering HD DVD in those 1,450 stores that will start carrying blu ray disks...

 

[dwell]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Typical FUDD. If people would have seen the CBS interview with the COO of Blockbuster and had not have just listened to ignorant FUDD, they would have realized the BBI is stocking BR *only* because they percieve the market demand as that right now. This is only driven by, according to the COO, the PS3 owners who prefer to rent rather than buy (further helping the case that HD-DVD is more for owners, not renters).

I love how you run around posting this ignorant crap without anything to back it up. On the other hand, it's a shame you do since you are killing the only open format out there.

What's FUDD?

Next time you want a region free HD media, let me know, because I know your BR won't play it while mine will.

Unless it's a disc by five of the major studios exclusively backing Blu-Ray in which case it won't run at all on your player.

Here's a little something for that denial you're suffering from:

Blockbuster's Blu-ray Endorsement Having Major Impact on HD DVD Player Sales

Blockbuster's decision to support Blu-ray in all of its 1,450 stores is having a bigger impact than it seems. A tipster at an unnamed retailer tells us they've had more HD DVD player orders canceled over the last few days than they've seen over the entire life cycle. The kicker? All of them were canceled because of the Blockbuster announcement.

Not only that, new sales of HD DVD players are nonexistent, with Blu-ray being the only things moving now.

The more tech savvy of us rent our stuff on Netflix or Blockbuster Online (which is still supporting both formats for now), but this announcement?covered in many mainstream media sources?had a big impact on people who actually rent at Blockbuster.

Blu-Ray software sales are soaring too:

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/index.cfm

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Typical FUDD. If people would have seen the CBS interview with the COO of Blockbuster and had not have just listened to ignorant FUDD, they would have realized the BBI is stocking BR *only* because they percieve the market demand as that right now. This is only driven by, according to the COO, the PS3 owners who prefer to rent rather than buy (further helping the case that HD-DVD is more for owners, not renters).

I love how you run around posting this ignorant crap without anything to back it up. On the other hand, it's a shame you do since you are killing the only open format out there.

Next time you want a region free HD media, let me know, because I know your BR won't play it while mine will.

You can live in your little world of denial...check out the threads on this topic at AVS or the Highdef forums... Even some of the diehard HD DVD fan boys like you are realizing that yesterday was not a good day for HD DVD.

'Perceived' market demand??? do you know what the sales ratio of the rentals of blu ray vs HD DVD in those 250 pilot stores that have been offering high def disk since NOV of last year is? Blu ray was rented 70% of the time. Wow, that is eerily close to the 67:33 percentage that blu ray enjoys in disk sales over HD DVD this year.

The tide of the format war took a major turn yesterday...

In case you missed the press release yesterday, here is quote from one of Blockbuster's Senior VPs: "The consumers are sending us a message. I can't ignore what I'm seeing," Matthew Smith, senior vice president of merchandising at Blockbuster, told The Associated Press.

This is the reason why Blockbuster is not offering HD DVD in those 1,450 stores that will start carrying blu ray disks...

Let me run you through this again.


1. Blockbuster has declining revenues. It declined 300m last year, 200m the year before. It lost 1.8bn over 3 years and only profited .7% last year.

2. Blockbuster is closing B&M stores left and right.

3. It's best competitor, Netflix, gained 300M (50%) in revenues last year.

4. Blockbuster's stock price is less than $5, while Netflix is at 25. Blockbuster's market capitalization is at 1.3bn while Netflix is at 900m.

What this tells you is that the stock market sees Blockbuster as a WORSE investment than Netflix. Despite Blockbuster having 5x the revenue as Netflix, it's valued LESS than Netflix. Technically BBI should be valued at 6bn market cap, if one were to extrapolate it's revenue proportion.

Essentially, everybody thinks BBI is a craptacular company whereby all brick and mortar business model is failing.

5. If the B&M model is failing, then what possible reason would there be for BBI to stock a lot of BR? That's the key, they are only stocking it in 25% of their stores. In that 25% they are stocking HD-DVD in 16%.

6. BBI is STILL stocking ALL HD-DVDs online. What this tells you is that they know that the next battlefront for rentals is not Brick and Mortar, but online.

7. If ALL of the above holds true, then we know that this announcement is actually a partial announcement for a failing business line from a company that is valued 30% less than it's competitor despite having 5x the revenue.

8. We also know that according to the BBI COO, BBI is only responding to renters. Ironically, you claim that this is a huge advantage. If anything it's only another abysmal failure. Movie companies are there to make money. THey make far less money on a rented movie than they do on a bought movie. According to the COO it's the gamers who rent, not buy.

Essentially, the PS3 guys with a piss-poor attachment rate are making less money for the movie companies than anybody else. While it may be seen as a make-up for poor ratio of sales to ownership, it only highlights the fact that the movie companies (and sony) won't make very much money with BR, especially considering the margins on the product being lower due to higher production costs.

This still gets down to the point that BR has 10x the adoption and barely holds a lead on anything.

I know that you have no sound rationale. You have no analysis. You have no facts. You have no capital markets experience, stock analysis, corporate analysis, nor do you have anything even remotely resembling an argument that you can use to defeat mine, since we have argued this over 3 different threads. I also know that you'll just label me as a spinster, but in fact you won't provide one iota of sound logic, as I have done above, to support your own assertions.

If anything, your the rubber stamping fanboi running around trying to prove some type of superiority with a paper tiger. Provide something of substance and then get back to me, otherwise your a marginal player, just like BLockbuster and PS3.

 

[Shawn]

not even close