So Blu-Ray won?

[Pacfanweb]

It's an advantage, but then again....who goes to Blockbuster anymore?

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Chris

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Typical FUDD. If people would have seen the CBS interview with the COO of Blockbuster and had not have just listened to ignorant FUDD, they would have realized the BBI is stocking BR *only* because they percieve the market demand as that right now. This is only driven by, according to the COO, the PS3 owners who prefer to rent rather than buy (further helping the case that HD-DVD is more for owners, not renters).

I love how you run around posting this ignorant crap without anything to back it up. On the other hand, it's a shame you do since you are killing the only open format out there.

What's FUDD?

Next time you want a region free HD media, let me know, because I know your BR won't play it while mine will.

Unless it's a disc by five of the major studios exclusively backing Blu-Ray in which case it won't run at all on your player.

Here's a little something for that denial you're suffering from:

Blockbuster's Blu-ray Endorsement Having Major Impact on HD DVD Player Sales

Blockbuster's decision to support Blu-ray in all of its 1,450 stores is having a bigger impact than it seems. A tipster at an unnamed retailer tells us they've had more HD DVD player orders canceled over the last few days than they've seen over the entire life cycle. The kicker? All of them were canceled because of the Blockbuster announcement.

Not only that, new sales of HD DVD players are nonexistent, with Blu-ray being the only things moving now.

The more tech savvy of us rent our stuff on Netflix or Blockbuster Online (which is still supporting both formats for now), but this announcement?covered in many mainstream media sources?had a big impact on people who actually rent at Blockbuster.

Blu-Ray software sales are soaring too:

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/index.cfm

It's sad that it's affecting things this much, because in reality it's not a big deal.

YOu might want to check your facts about discs released in other regions. Underworld (1&2), Blackhawk Down, and others that are US BR exclusive, can be imported.

Sucks to be a BR owner.

 

[dwell]

HD-DVD supporter failed arguments

1) Blu-Ray discs are more expensive to produce. HD-DVD wins. (Refuted: Discs cost the same for the consumer).
2) Porn will win this war for HD-DVD. (The 80's wants its argument back).
3) Wal-Mart will decide this war! (Wal-Mart denies $250 HD-DVD player rumor).
4) Blockbuster is irrelevant. (HD-DVD player orders are canceled as a result of Blockbuster's announcement).

 

[Cattlegod]

My group just did a case study on this in my marketing class. If you look at the what the data says, it is hard to believe that HD DVD will come out on top. The war isn't over, but it is at the bottom of the 7th and Blu-ray has a 20 point lead. The only thing HD DVD has going for it is its name.

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Typical FUDD. If people would have seen the CBS interview with the COO of Blockbuster and had not have just listened to ignorant FUDD, they would have realized the BBI is stocking BR *only* because they percieve the market demand as that right now. This is only driven by, according to the COO, the PS3 owners who prefer to rent rather than buy (further helping the case that HD-DVD is more for owners, not renters).

I love how you run around posting this ignorant crap without anything to back it up. On the other hand, it's a shame you do since you are killing the only open format out there.

Next time you want a region free HD media, let me know, because I know your BR won't play it while mine will.

You can live in your little world of denial...check out the threads on this topic at AVS or the Highdef forums... Even some of the diehard HD DVD fan boys like you are realizing that yesterday was not a good day for HD DVD.

'Perceived' market demand??? do you know what the sales ratio of the rentals of blu ray vs HD DVD in those 250 pilot stores that have been offering high def disk since NOV of last year is? Blu ray was rented 70% of the time. Wow, that is eerily close to the 67:33 percentage that blu ray enjoys in disk sales over HD DVD this year.

The tide of the format war took a major turn yesterday...

In case you missed the press release yesterday, here is quote from one of Blockbuster's Senior VPs: "The consumers are sending us a message. I can't ignore what I'm seeing," Matthew Smith, senior vice president of merchandising at Blockbuster, told The Associated Press.

This is the reason why Blockbuster is not offering HD DVD in those 1,450 stores that will start carrying blu ray disks...

Let me run you through this again.


1. Blockbuster has declining revenues. It declined 300m last year, 200m the year before. It lost 1.8bn over 3 years and only profited .7% last year.

2. Blockbuster is closing B&M stores left and right.

3. It's best competitor, Netflix, gained 300M (50%) in revenues last year.

4. Blockbuster's stock price is less than $5, while Netflix is at 25. Blockbuster's market capitalization is at 1.3bn while Netflix is at 900m.

What this tells you is that the stock market sees Blockbuster as a WORSE investment than Netflix. Despite Blockbuster having 5x the revenue as Netflix, it's valued LESS than Netflix. Technically BBI should be valued at 6bn market cap, if one were to extrapolate it's revenue proportion.

Essentially, everybody thinks BBI is a craptacular company whereby all brick and mortar business model is failing.

5. If the B&M model is failing, then what possible reason would there be for BBI to stock a lot of BR? That's the key, they are only stocking it in 25% of their stores. In that 25% they are stocking HD-DVD in 16%.

6. BBI is STILL stocking ALL HD-DVDs online. What this tells you is that they know that the next battlefront for rentals is not Brick and Mortar, but online.

7. If ALL of the above holds true, then we know that this announcement is actually a partial announcement for a failing business line from a company that is valued 30% less than it's competitor despite having 5x the revenue.

8. We also know that according to the BBI COO, BBI is only responding to renters. Ironically, you claim that this is a huge advantage. If anything it's only another abysmal failure. Movie companies are there to make money. THey make far less money on a rented movie than they do on a bought movie. According to the COO it's the gamers who rent, not buy.

Essentially, the PS3 guys with a piss-poor attachment rate are making less money for the movie companies than anybody else. While it may be seen as a make-up for poor ratio of sales to ownership, it only highlights the fact that the movie companies (and sony) won't make very much money with BR, especially considering the margins on the product being lower due to higher production costs.

This still gets down to the point that BR has 10x the adoption and barely holds a lead on anything.

I know that you have no sound rationale. You have no analysis. You have no facts. You have no capital markets experience, stock analysis, corporate analysis, nor do you have anything even remotely resembling an argument that you can use to defeat mine, since we have argued this over 3 different threads. I also know that you'll just label me as a spinster, but in fact you won't provide one iota of sound logic, as I have done above, to support your own assertions.

If anything, your the rubber stamping fanboi running around trying to prove some type of superiority with a paper tiger. Provide something of substance and then get back to me, otherwise your a marginal player, just like BLockbuster and PS3.

you can spout your data all day long until you are blue in the face...no one is listening and NO ONE CARES about Blockbuster stock prices or blah blah blah...

All JoeSixPack heard yesterday was the Blockbuster prefers Blu Ray. When they hear that on Yahoo news, CNN, MSN, the Wall Street Journal, their local media, it will have an affect whether you want to admit it or not...

Right now public perception favors blu ray, especially after yesterday...disk sales favor blu ray. studios favor blu ray. Consumers favor the movies that are exclusive to blu ray studios...HD DVD' lone exclusive studio, Universal, just had their first $100M movie with Knocked Up. Wonder how many HD DVD copies that will sell??? Blu ray had $300M movies with Spiderman 3 and POTC 3. These movies may not be the greatest of all time, but they will sell a ton of disks. Hopefully even you can admit that...

Man, I know you love your HD DVD and all, but at least come out and smell the roses dude...HD DVD is losing right now, and after yesterday, they are losing big...public perception matters...

What is Toshiba going to do? Lower their prices even more? Give away more free movies? is 5 free movies not enough???

 

[Shawn]

Originally posted by: Chris
HD-DVD supporter failed arguments

1) Blu-Ray discs are more expensive to produce. HD-DVD wins. (Refuted: Discs cost the same for the consumer).
2) Porn will win this war for HD-DVD. (The 80's wants its argument back).
3) Wal-Mart will decide this war! (Wal-Mart denies $250 HD-DVD player rumor).
4) Blockbuster is irrelevant. (HD-DVD player orders are canceled as a result of Blockbuster's announcement).

I picked up a Toshiba HD-A2 from Crutchfield for $200.

Also you can get a HP HD100 External HD DVD-ROM Drive for $129.99 AR.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Look the reality is that nobody is going to buy a player just to watch a high def movie they strongly desire. There is just almost no motiviation for the typical American to buy a hi def player of any type. They're going to pick up a player because they #1 found one for a good price or #2 because one snuck into their house inside a game console.

PS3 sales jumpstarted and are the lifeblood of blu-ray player sales. It makes sense that people going to blockbuster to rent a PS3 game would also rent a blu-ray move while they are there. Blockbuster knows that every PS3 game renter is a prospective blu-ray movie renter, so it is in their best interest to encourage the format that brings them more perspective rentals. When you're a floundering corporation like Blockbuster, maximizing your space and capitalizing on each and every visitor is good business sense. But it weighs very little on the outcome of the format war.

As for the cancelled players, those were from Crutchfield. Think about it for a moment, genius. People can only cancel orders which haven't shipped and every place other than Crutchfield - which was backordered because of the price mistake - wouldn't have any backorders. People have been waiting a couple weeks for these players to ship and the blockbuster news may have been the final straw or an excuse for their impatience. So, yes, there may have been a few dozen orders cancelled which, yes, would be more than any time up till now. :roll:

The war will essentially be over by the end of this year. Seeing HD-DVD players for $200 and $236 the past couple months signals that there may be $150-100 sales this holiday season. If so, then people will finally have a reason to buy one of these since they'll be marginally more expensive than regular DVD players and will upconvert and give them optional access to hi def. Walmart will inevitably go with HD-DVD and all the non-Sony owned studios will jump ship. Sony will start offering their studios movies in both formats and the blu-ray section will end up right next to the PSP section.

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: LegendKillerdeal.
YOu might want to check your facts about discs released in other regions. Underworld (1&2), Blackhawk Down, and others that are US BR exclusive, can be imported.

Sucks to be a BR owner.

yeah, the typical American consumer will be importing high def discs from Europe or wherever...

by next year, everything will be on blu ray anyway....

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Allen Iverson

Originally posted by: tw1164

Originally posted by: ch33zw1z
If Sony wins, no high def pron

I think they're already release some.

I've heard HD pron isn't that good. Because in SD, you can't see all the imperfections in the body, but it HD all of them become glaringly visible. pronstars aren't that pretty without all that makeup and the right camera angles. not that I know anything

Razor bumps and ass pimples FTL

yeah, whats up w/the ass pimples?! thought lube was hypo-allergetic?

what? no replies to ass pimples?

come on, you've all seen it (or experienced it :Q)

 

[NaOH]

I don't get it. My Blockbuster has both...

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

BBL is a falling company. It's only deploying BR in 25% of its stores and about 20% of those will also carry HD-DVD. Additionally, they are still renting online. The B&M business model is failing and this is a good indication of that, so big deal?

The B&M business model is not failing. When someone is bored at home on a Friday night and they want to watch a movie, ordering it over the internet is not feasible. They want to drive and pick it up.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: Extelleron

I think Microsoft made the right choice by not betting the farm on either format. If Blu-Ray really wins, which it currently seems like it might, Sony's bet might have paid off, but it was still a bet.

Sony is obviously in a different position than MS of course... Sony's future may depend on the success of Blu-Ray, and they needed the PS3 as a "trojan horse" to get BR into millions of homes.

Uh, they put BR into the PS3 mainly to support 50 gb game discs. Playing BR movies is a benefit just like the PS2 playing dvds.

I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

BBL is a falling company. It's only deploying BR in 25% of its stores and about 20% of those will also carry HD-DVD. Additionally, they are still renting online. The B&M business model is failing and this is a good indication of that, so big deal?

The B&M business model is not failing. When someone is bored at home on a Friday night and they want to watch a movie, ordering it over the internet is not feasible. They want to drive and pick it up.

Yeah, that's why BBI's stock price dropped like a rock, revenues are down, and they lost 1.8bn. Sure, keep telling yourself that. What's after BBI? Hollywood Video? Yeah, Market Cap of 74m and a net income of -80m on revenues of 2.5bn.

So, the only two major B&M players have 5bn and 2.5bn in revenue, yet neither one can eek out a significant profit. Does that not tell you anything at all?

You want to know what's going to kill B&M? VOD. People think VOD is going to kill next-gen HD formats, but the sheer bandwidth needed makes VOD impractical. However, the majority of renters can just use VOD for normal DVD-ish viewing. That 20% of people who own HDTVs and have BR or HD-DVD won't keep B&M stores open.

THat's why BBI is still stocking HD-DVD online.

 

[spaceman]

blu-ray is the cool ray!

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Yeah, that's why BBI's stock price dropped like a rock, revenues are down, and they lost 1.8bn. Sure, keep telling yourself that. What's after BBI? Hollywood Video? Yeah, Market Cap of 74m and a net income of -80m on revenues of 2.5bn.

So, the only two major B&M players have 5bn and 2.5bn in revenue, yet neither one can eek out a significant profit. Does that not tell you anything at all?

You want to know what's going to kill B&M? VOD. People think VOD is going to kill next-gen HD formats, but the sheer bandwidth needed makes VOD impractical. However, the majority of renters can just use VOD for normal DVD-ish viewing. That 20% of people who own HDTVs and have BR or HD-DVD won't keep B&M stores open.

THat's why BBI is still stocking HD-DVD online.

1. Quit it with the annoying attitude.

2. You can't judge the effectiveness of a business model by looking at the failings of 2 companies. That's like saying that producing cars isn't profitable because GM and Chrysler are failing.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
This is a non-issue.

BLockbuster is losing about 10% of it's revenue to Netflix and others, annually. They have lost about 1.8 billion in last 3 years and only eeked out a 2.5% profit margin last year. Netflix is twice as profitable and has a share price 5x as high as BBL. Not to mention Netflix has a market cap that's higher than BBL.

BBL is a falling company. It's only deploying BR in 25% of its stores and about 20% of those will also carry HD-DVD. Additionally, they are still renting online. The B&M business model is failing and this is a good indication of that, so big deal?

It is a big deal. Even my local newspaper's business section big front page story today was this Blockbuster Blu-ray deal.

Now you've got mainstream America believing Blu-ray is the better format.

You can downplay it all you want, but it's not going to change the inevitable.

 

[eplebnista]

No the war is not over

 

[playstation3]

blu-ray is going to win. hd-dvd is losing. anyone who thinks otherwise is in denial.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: playstation3
blu-ray is going to win. hd-dvd is losing. anyone who thinks otherwise is in denial.

True, but the PS3 will still be in third place in the console wars

 

[playstation3]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: playstation3
blu-ray is going to win. hd-dvd is losing. anyone who thinks otherwise is in denial.</end quote></div> True, but the PS3 will still be in third place in the console wars

True, but its still the number one HD player on the market

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: playstation3
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: playstation3
blu-ray is going to win. hd-dvd is losing. anyone who thinks otherwise is in denial.</end quote></div> True, but the PS3 will still be in third place in the console wars
</end quote></div>

True, but its still the number one HD player on the market

But selling under 100k/units per month. That means that HD-DVD only has to sell 25k units/month to keep up with it.

PS3 has been a monumental failure. 2bn lost, PS designer resigned, BD attachment rates in the toilette...etc.

 

[playstation3]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: playstation3
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: playstation3
blu-ray is going to win. hd-dvd is losing. anyone who thinks otherwise is in denial.</end quote></div> True, but the PS3 will still be in third place in the console wars
</end quote></div>

True, but its still the number one HD player on the market </end quote></div>

But selling under 100k/units per month. That means that HD-DVD only has to sell 25k units/month to keep up with it.

PS3 has been a monumental failure. 2bn lost, PS designer resigned, BD attachment rates in the toilette...etc.

I stand by my original statement, and I wish for you to stfu.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: playstation3
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: playstation3
blu-ray is going to win. hd-dvd is losing. anyone who thinks otherwise is in denial.</end quote></div> True, but the PS3 will still be in third place in the console wars
</end quote></div>

True, but its still the number one HD player on the market </end quote></div>

But selling under 100k/units per month. That means that HD-DVD only has to sell 25k units/month to keep up with it.

PS3 has been a monumental failure. 2bn lost, PS designer resigned, BD attachment rates in the toilette...etc.

the PS3 is not a monumental failure. it is not as big as it could be.

all it is going to take is a few really good games to come out and PS3 will start to do alot better.

is it a blockbuster? hell no. but its not a monumental failure..yet. if something doesnto happen by X-Mas then yeah it will be.

 

[bullbert]

Neither Blu-Ray nor HD-DVD will win. Bill Gates is personally backing LaserDisc, and SlickWilly has never gone wrong.

 

[psteng19]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

But selling under 100k/units per month. That means that HD-DVD only has to sell 25k units/month to keep up with it.

PS3 has been a monumental failure. 2bn lost, PS designer resigned, BD attachment rates in the toilette...etc.

I think I speak for many here when I say "Please STFU."

I'm neutral to both formats at the moment but I'm almost hoping HD-DVD fails just to spite you.