So how are you liking Win10 so far?

[denis280]

I wonder what bug is this.

Not a bug.it's your twin brother

 

[Ketchup]

Just to echo GrumpyMan and Maximilian here. We have four android-based tablets in the house. I would have no desire to have a Windows OS on those. Android is perfect on those devices. My parents have two iPhones and an iPad at their house. They are also great at what they do.

Microsoft needs to stop focusing on markets they have lost (never had?), and stop screwing up what they have (and used to be good at) to make up for it.

 

[denis280]

Same Crap

I was wrong.it's worstD: cant believe it.they just made the crap better

 

[GrumpyMan]

Just to echo GrumpyMan and Maximilian here. We have four android-based tablets in the house. I would have no desire to have a Windows OS on those. Android is perfect on those devices. My parents have two iPhones and an iPad at their house. They are also great at what they do.

Microsoft needs to stop focusing on markets they have lost (never had?), and stop screwing up what they have (and used to be good at) to make up for it.

Couldn't have put it better myself...

 

[sweenish]

Lol its the Zune all over again.

iOS has its high end/apple product niche, android caters for everyone else, who wants a windows based device? Yeah... They are years late to the game with no compelling unique selling point and despite this a noncompetitive price. Zune 2.0

MS clearly don't want to be a bit player in the mobile game, yet its likely how they will remain. They dont give a toss about mobile profits (yet), they want a strong foothold, their corporate profits take care of losses from other divisions.

And this is still tangential to the point that Windows Phone is popular and selling well in the aforementioned countries. I'm not trying to put up a MS defense here. I'm just calling out your shoddy argument. Well, arguments now.

Is it not doing well in those countries? And is slow but steady growth worldwide over the last 4 years [according to the chart YOU linked] still considered by you to be stagnant?

You don't have to like MS. I'm not defending them. But try to use facts properly when you put forth an argument, and not go off on tangents. Those are straw men and/or red herrings. It doesn't weaken the other side and in fact strengthens it because all you're saying is that you are incapable of arguing the point brought forth.

EDIT: As for where the discussion is right now; I wouldn't want Windows on my N7. But I would love a Surface Pro 3. If I were picking a new tablet today, it would probably be the SP3. Being late doesn't equate to being bad. I still wouldn't get a Windows Phone in the next year or so, but it's not really knock on the OS if it doesn't suit my current preferences. I've used WP8, and it's generally a very solid OS. At the low end, I think I'd pick it over Android. The Moto G is a compelling device, but a Lumia 525 shouldn't be discounted. Apps matter less, I would argue, at the low end since you can't run a lot of them anyway.

 

[escrow4]

Windows Phone is trash. I have two and I wonder why I bothered - an Ativ S and a Lumia 635. Devs don't care about it, apps are non-existent or flimsy wrappers for the web login. Users don't care about it. The whole point of a smartphone are the apps not the core OS. MS is valiantly trying to drum up support for a cemetery platform. Windows on tablets just doesn't work and never will, the desktop just doesn't work on a tiny screen, and the app store would be great . . . . . . if anyone cared.

When was the last time you saw hype over Windows Phone/app store? Some excitement? A queue? Even an errant fart? Windows 10 is MS's last gasp to extend beyond Office/Windows and the other core bits where the consumers and money currently is and judging by the past they will fail. And this time its the end. MS is not relevant anymore.

Even though I hate Apple I am actively considering an iPhone and the poison that is known as Itunes. Yes, its locked down, yes Apple will kill it off via iOS updates sooner than later and yes its overpriced by a huge margin but damn the support and the apps are there. Proper native apps too.

 

[WelshBloke]

Is it not doing well in those countries?

I don't know, is it?

People keep saying it but I see ah heck all of them in the wild around here even though they are pretty much free.

 

[quikah]

Joe Belfiore tweeted that tablets < 8" will get phone experience. I am not sure how set in stone that is, seems like a step backwards for the 7" tablets. Phone version is not out yet, so I am guessing RAM requirements will be addressed with that build.

Windows tablet experience is FAR superior to android IMO. Multiwindow / multiuser is awesome. Too bad there is a dearth of apps. Really holds them back.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I will agree that the Windows store is . . . not all that well-supported right now. I hate to say it, but MS probably has to go Bungie 2.0 with their store, and buy out one or more developers to produce killer apps to attract customers to their store. Or they need to co-opt an existing app and make it Windows store exclusive.

But yeah, go get any cross-platform game like . . . I don't know, Despicable Me: Minion Rush, and use the Windows store version. It's always late on updates, sometimes by half a year or more. If you are big into mobile gaming, it's a serious problem for the cross-platform stuff, and that's IF you can even get it under Windows store.

That being said, what MS seems to be doing with Win10 is actually pretty smart. It's basically an update to Windows 7/8.1 that just happens to run on tablets and phones. So long as they can make a good, usable OS that will span the gap between someone's monster i7-5960x and a Bay Trail tablet, then they're all good. MS has years of experience supporting massive amounts of divergent hardware configurations (including some proprietary junk), so it should be no big deal to them to add a slew of tablets and phones to the supported hardware list of their bread-and-butter OS.

Now, on a different note: Someone from MS is reading my posts! AMD Linpack was vastly improved with build 9926! Running an A10-7700k @ 4.7 ghz, I went from 38.4497 Gflops peak to 57.1938 Gflops peak. That's huge, and it's higher than my peak from Win7 (45.7800 Gflops).

I have to re-bench some other stuff . . .

 

[WelshBloke]

I will agree that the Windows store is . . . not all that well-supported right now.

If they make it so an app has to work across phones, tablets and the desktop then it's going to be absolutely rubbish on the desktop.

 

[escrow4]

So I'm trying Win 10 on this old junk Vaio Z series from 2009 (which was more than $3K if I recall) and its impressive that the Nvidia driver from 2009 works. Still need to test switchable graphics but the resolution is on point. The UI though, HORRIFIC. Windows 8.1 bits/icons mixed with some demented mobile madness mixed with a Notification Area - what? Is the desktop a big old phone now? - and the min/max/close buttons and font look just off. Why do notifications pop up bottom left? Why are the windows looking so off and not centred and out of proportion?

Cortana just needs to die, search needs to be decoupled from that permanently and Explorer really needs to be rebuilt it looks sad and tired with modern icons but no modern file management - still no tabs in 2015. No wonder this is free. Its fast and looks to be solid but the UI is just disgusting. And MS had the last laugh, Metro is now basically everywhere, its in the start menu (it IS the start menu) and apps can be just like old win32 apps. Meh.

 

[ArisVer]

To see how it works on a phone watch this from 18-70 minutes. Whether we like it or not this is the MS road to the future.

http://news.microsoft.com/windows10story/

 

[DrMrLordX]

If they make it so an app has to work across phones, tablets and the desktop then it's going to be absolutely rubbish on the desktop.

That's pretty much how it is for Windows store apps under Win8.1 right now. So far as I can tell, the store apps do okay on desktop (my experience is pretty limited), though there is room for improvement. Minion Rush was not that hard to play with keyboard+mouse on a desktop AiO when I tried it.

escrow, the start menu looked better under the last build I ran . . . . 9789 or whatever it was. Also, Cortana can be disabled and search can be removed from the taskbar. Doing so causes it to pop up whenever you hit the Start button.

 

[Maximilian]

And this is still tangential to the point that Windows Phone is popular and selling well in the aforementioned countries. I'm not trying to put up a MS defense here. I'm just calling out your shoddy argument. Well, arguments now.

Is it not doing well in those countries? And is slow but steady growth worldwide over the last 4 years [according to the chart YOU linked] still considered by you to be stagnant?

You don't have to like MS. I'm not defending them. But try to use facts properly when you put forth an argument, and not go off on tangents. Those are straw men and/or red herrings. It doesn't weaken the other side and in fact strengthens it because all you're saying is that you are incapable of arguing the point brought forth.

EDIT: As for where the discussion is right now; I wouldn't want Windows on my N7. But I would love a Surface Pro 3. If I were picking a new tablet today, it would probably be the SP3. Being late doesn't equate to being bad. I still wouldn't get a Windows Phone in the next year or so, but it's not really knock on the OS if it doesn't suit my current preferences. I've used WP8, and it's generally a very solid OS. At the low end, I think I'd pick it over Android. The Moto G is a compelling device, but a Lumia 525 shouldn't be discounted. Apps matter less, I would argue, at the low end since you can't run a lot of them anyway.

Yes in the countries that dont really matter.

Yes slow and steady growth when compared with zero growth. When compared with the competition that slow and steady growth may as well be stagnant.

You would make a good exec/politician :thumbsup: Managing to find some way of making a dire fail of a situation sound good is a key skill.

 

[denis280]

Just to echo GrumpyMan and Maximilian here. We have four android-based tablets in the house. I would have no desire to have a Windows OS on those. Android is perfect on those devices. My parents have two iPhones and an iPad at their house. They are also great at what they do.

Microsoft needs to stop focusing on markets they have lost (never had?), and stop screwing up what they have (and used to be good at) to make up for it.

You just cant argue with this.I back this a 100%:thumbsup:

 

[ninaholic37]

Yeah, they are changing their OS so it can be compatible with phones, tablets and the pc and also so programmers will make programs for their apps store. But here is the thing, I will never buy a Windows based tablet, phone or anything of the sort other than a pc. So they are expending all those efforts uselessly in my eyes and mostly the world's too I would venture to guess. Too late to the party...

I might buy an MS tablet if it was $60, as I've been using Windows/x86 apps and games since the 95 era and would enjoy having that functionality still there. I'd definitely want to get a Stylus Pen thing at the dollar store to go with it though, at the very least, because trying to hit little buttons on an 8" capacitive screen without pinch zooming everything is... never very accurate and impossible to master it seems. I have no clue how my sister does it with her 4" Smartphones without getting angry and wanting to smash those things to pieces. :awe:

 

[RampantAndroid]

I might buy an MS tablet if it was $60

...Because expecting a tablet to cost $60 is reasonable? :hmm:

 

[quikah]

...Because expecting a tablet to cost $60 is reasonable? :hmm:

stream 7 is $99. Pretty close.

 

[ninaholic37]

...Because expecting a tablet to cost $60 is reasonable? :hmm:

Well the last four laptops I bought were:

- $69 (Dell Latitude D610)
- $50 (Dell Latitude D410)
- $40 (IBM Thinkpad T42)
- $25 (Dell Latitude D600)

And they all perform well enough for browsing and basic tasks, so I guess a $20 tablet limit might make more sense (since it won't come with a keyboard)... :awe:

 

[DrMrLordX]

Not to interrupt the current conversation or anything, but build 9926 improved the linpack, Unigine Valley/Heaven/Sanctuary/Tropics, 3DMark Vantage, 3DMark 11, and 3DMark FireStrike/Cloud Gate/etc. scores on my A10-7700k across the board. It also pumped up the OpenGL score under Cinebench R10 (not R11.5 or R15, and not any of the CPU rendering scores).

The only benches I ran that were faster under Win7 than this latest version of Win10 were any version of Cinebench (CPU rendering).

Very interesting, to say the least.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Yeah, they are changing their OS so it can be compatible with phones, tablets and the pc and also so programmers will make programs for their apps store. But here is the thing, I will never buy a Windows based tablet, phone or anything of the sort other than a pc. So they are expending all those efforts uselessly in my eyes and mostly the world's too I would venture to guess. Too late to the party...

These things take time, especially if you're a newcomer. It took iPhone what, 2-3 years before it became widely accepted as the new industry standard, and apple had zero competition in the consumer space back then (RIM and Windows Mobile were aimed at enterprise, not consumers). On the other hand Microsoft is trying to enter market that is already saturated, they have an uphill battle and it will take them a lot longer than 2-3 years to succeed.

Personally, I do not see myself using windows phone, at least not yet. Right now Android (or Cyanogenmod if we want to be completely accurate) is the right choice for me on my phone. Apple is too dumbed down as well as overpriced, and windows phone just doesn't strike my fancy. However, for my tablet, I actually prefer windows now. I started with an android tablet, but I quickly became frustrated with lack of functionality. It truly is a media consumption device and nothing more, and if we're being honest even media consumption is frustrating because there is no easy way to block the ads on a tablet/mobile devices, see this thread in the off topic, So I bought myself dell venue 11 pro 7130 which is a much better fit for me, it doubles as a tablet and a laptop. It's got kindle app so I can read book if I want to, I can easily read PDFs, I have full windows functionality if I want it, and I can easily convert it to a laptop by docking it to a mobile keyboard that doubles as a second battery for 9 hours of battery life. It's got its downsides such as thickness and weight, but that's the compromise that I have to make.

Point being I really see windows slowly making inroads with the cheap intel based tablets. It may or may not translate to phones, but there is quite a huge Dell Venue 8 and Venue 11 (atom based) following. The windows eco-system is rapidly evolving, people like having a cheap windows tablet that got essential apps such as note taking/kindle/facebook/news/weather and that can turn into a full windows machine if they need to. As soon as Microsoft completes merging windows 8 and windows phone stores, that is going to be another huge boost to their eco-system, no more different app stores for windows tablets and windows phones. OneDrive cloud will also help the adoption, it's available by default on Windows desktop, so if people start using it they will want it on their tablets and phones as well. Yes, windows 8 was a very clumsy beginning, but I really see it finally coming together now. The key thing is for Microsoft to keep pushing and not stray from the path, if they play their cards right they will succeed.

 

[GrumpyMan]

These things take time, especially if you're a newcomer. It took iPhone what, 2-3 years before it became widely accepted as the new industry standard, and apple had zero competition in the consumer space back then (RIM and Windows Mobile were aimed at enterprise, not consumers). On the other hand Microsoft is trying to enter market that is already saturated, they have an uphill battle and it will take them a lot longer than 2-3 years to succeed.

Personally, I do not see myself using windows phone, at least not yet. Right now Android (or Cyanogenmod if we want to be completely accurate) is the right choice for me on my phone. Apple is too dumbed down as well as overpriced, and windows phone just doesn't strike my fancy. However, for my tablet, I actually prefer windows now. I started with an android tablet, but I quickly became frustrated with lack of functionality. It truly is a media consumption device and nothing more, and if we're being honest even media consumption is frustrating because there is no easy way to block the ads on a tablet/mobile devices, see this thread in the off topic, So I bought myself dell venue 11 pro 7130 which is a much better fit for me, it doubles as a tablet and a laptop. It's got kindle app so I can read book if I want to, I can easily read PDFs, I have full windows functionality if I want it, and I can easily convert it to a laptop by docking it to a mobile keyboard that doubles as a second battery for 9 hours of battery life. It's got its downsides such as thickness and weight, but that's the compromise that I have to make.

Point being I really see windows slowly making inroads with the cheap intel based tablets. It may or may not translate to phones, but there is quite a huge Dell Venue 8 and Venue 11 (atom based) following. The windows eco-system is rapidly evolving, people like having a cheap windows tablet that got essential apps such as note taking/kindle/facebook/news/weather and that can turn into a full windows machine if they need to. As soon as Microsoft completes merging windows 8 and windows phone stores, that is going to be another huge boost to their eco-system, no more different app stores for windows tablets and windows phones. OneDrive cloud will also help the adoption, it's available by default on Windows desktop, so if people start using it they will want it on their tablets and phones as well. Yes, windows 8 was a very clumsy beginning, but I really see it finally coming together now. The key thing is for Microsoft to keep pushing and not stray from the path, if they play their cards right they will succeed.

All very good points that I agree with you on mostly, however they should of done this 4 or 5 years ago. I am still of the opinion that it's too little, too late. They will have a certain amount of success but not enough to become relevant. Kind of like how Blackberry is struggling through now.

 

[Chiefcrowe]

I tried it a bit and I like the newest build but I also think that the start menu should be more customizable. I kind of liked the last version better. I really think for those who don't want it that you should be able to disable all the live tile icons on the right side!

The new windows update menu is a bit odd too. Can you make a shortcut to it on your desktop does anyone know? Also did they take away the ability to set it to download updates and prompt to install when they are available?! if so that isn't great IMO!

 

[tommo123]

I tried it a bit and I like the newest build but I also think that the start menu should be more customizable. I kind of liked the last version better. I really think for those who don't want it that you should be able to disable all the live tile icons on the right side!

The new windows update menu is a bit odd too. Can you make a shortcut to it on your desktop does anyone know? Also did they take away the ability to set it to download updates and prompt to install when they are available?! if so that isn't great IMO!

wait, so you're still forced to have that crap? if the finals like that i guess some of us will still have to use start menu replacements i guess

 

[RampantAndroid]

I tried it a bit and I like the newest build but I also think that the start menu should be more customizable. I kind of liked the last version better. I really think for those who don't want it that you should be able to disable all the live tile icons on the right side!

The new windows update menu is a bit odd too. Can you make a shortcut to it on your desktop does anyone know? Also did they take away the ability to set it to download updates and prompt to install when they are available?! if so that isn't great IMO!

Yes, they did take away that ability. Please send feedback...lots of feedback....it's incredibly stupid that I can't deselect a driver that is causing trouble...