So I start treatment for alcoholism next week... *UPDATED! #2* 1/6/08

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: JohnCU
Found one who is nationally and state certified to treat alcoholism but I can't help but wonder what she could possibly say/do to help me stop if waking up every morning feeling like shit and ruining my health isn't enough to stop me? I've read every article there is to read, bought a book to self-help and know what I'm doing to myself, but it isn't enough.

Here's hoping she has the magical answer. If anyone else has it, I'd be willing to listen.

Best wishes on success no matter how it happens.

Try hypnotism. I'm serious, it works.

 

[rubix]

the magical answer is to never consider it an option, period. drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, whatever, do not ever do it under any circumstances and forget all this talk about moderation or trying to find some balance. get hardcore and go about it as if they don't exist in your mind or realm of possibilities.

of course, this is more for people who haven't already started.

 

[sandorski]

Good luck dude! Consider going to AA as well.

 

[0roo0roo]

AA
is

bullsh*t
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nbwg_7sY1o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI0iXXxZulI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIOnTzg9lzA

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
AA
is

bullsh*t
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nbwg_7sY1o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI0iXXxZulI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIOnTzg9lzA

No, it's not.

 

[Twofootputt]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
AA
is

bullsh*t

Is this from your personal experience, or just prejudice? In my experience, people who really follow the guidelines of 12 step programs have significant improvement in more than 1/2 the cases.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Twofootputt

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
AA
is

bullsh*t

Is this from your personal experience, or just prejudice? In my experience, people who really follow the guidelines of 12 step programs have significant improvement in more than 1/2 the cases.

Ya, I didn't bother to watch his videos. Mainly because I have known way too many people who successfully quit Drinking due to AA.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Twofootputt

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
AA
is

bullsh*t

Is this from your personal experience, or just prejudice? In my experience, people who really follow the guidelines of 12 step programs have significant improvement in more than 1/2 the cases.

Ya, I didn't bother to watch his videos. Mainly because I have known way too many people who successfully quit Drinking due to AA.

Trading one crutch for another IMO.

Best of luck OP, I think you are taking a better route. You might understand what you are doing to yourself, but do you understand why? Hopefully the doc will be able to help you understand, if not, make her pick up the tab for the drinks

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
how old are you and how often were you getting drunk.

23, started last october, drunk every night

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Why are you not going inpatient to break the ability to drink for awhile?
Psychologist is good for support, counseling, etc., but I don't see how that's gonna keep you from drinking. The physical addiction needs to be adressed. Alcohol withdrawal can be dangerous. That's why they sometimes have to administer meds to keep the body from having violent reactions to withdrawals.

A family friend and Dr. we used to live near heads up a rehab unit.

not been drinking long enough to suffer from DTs. i went 2 weeks without drinking with no shakes, anxiety or hallucinations. but then the cravings came back.

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
AA
is

bullsh*t
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nbwg_7sY1o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI0iXXxZulI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIOnTzg9lzA

wow, that series is bullshit. alcoholism is a disease, a progressive disease, and there are genes that tend to make one susceptible to alcohol abuse. i have about 7 people in my immediate family who are also alcoholics.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
AA
is

bullsh*t
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nbwg_7sY1o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI0iXXxZulI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIOnTzg9lzA

wow, that series is bullshit. alcoholism is a disease, a progressive disease, and there are genes that tend to make one susceptible to alcohol abuse. i have about 7 people in my immediate family who are also alcoholics.

it is true some people are genetically more suseptable because they derive more pleasure from alcohol. the label of desease for something that is basically poor behavior is pc nonsense that was created so people could shirk responsibility, pushing it off on some "disease". frankly it is counter productive nonsense as it enables and helps rationalize bad behavior.

but it doesn't mean that AA isn't bullsh*t. theres nothing scientific or tested about AA.

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
AA
is

bullsh*t
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nbwg_7sY1o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI0iXXxZulI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIOnTzg9lzA

wow, that series is bullshit. alcoholism is a disease, a progressive disease, and there are genes that tend to make one susceptible to alcohol abuse. i have about 7 people in my immediate family who are also alcoholics.

it is true some people are genetically more suseptable because they derive more pleasure from alcohol. the label of desease for something that is basically poor behavior is pc nonsense that was created so people could shirk responsibility, pushing it off on some "desease".

but it doesn't mean that AA isn't bullsh*t. theres nothing scientific or tested about AA.

i have no issues with AA but there are plenty of neurotransmitters that come into play with alcoholism. you can't just stop without some sort of support. it's kind of like telling a diabetic to just will himself into producing insulin.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: homercles337
So youre going to stop drinking? Im sorry to hear that.

There is a medication, but no psychologist is going to be able to prescribe it. Its called antabuse. Apparently, it makes you violently ill if you drink. However, you have to take it in the first place.

Something else you may want to look into is moderation management. In the states we have this very protestant perspective that abstinence is the only solution. Hence, AA and the belief in god bullshit. MM helps you learn how to drink moderately. Its quite successful is more progressive nations that have healthy views towards alcohol. Good luck!

HaHa. Moderation Management.
Seriously, any treatment that says you can continue to use a substance you are addicted to is bonkers.
I have met quite a few people who went to similiar moderation programs. None of them was able to continue to use a substance they were addicted to in moderation. In fact, almost all of them said they abused their substance of choice to excess, but told people they were doing well. They said it was great having a "program" that gave them an excuse to use, and an out if they were caught using by their loved ones.

By definition, you cannot use a substance you are addicted to in moderation.

When dealing with an addiction "success" rates are almost impossible to accurately prove.
Lying about using is one of the symptoms of addiction.
Perhaps the only program that can really show you some semblence of a success rate is one where you actually see other people in the program on a daily basis, and can see for yourself if they are using (though even then, some people can hide it).

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
AA
is

bullsh*t
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nbwg_7sY1o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI0iXXxZulI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIOnTzg9lzA

wow, that series is bullshit. alcoholism is a disease, a progressive disease, and there are genes that tend to make one susceptible to alcohol abuse. i have about 7 people in my immediate family who are also alcoholics.

it is true some people are genetically more suseptable because they derive more pleasure from alcohol. the label of desease for something that is basically poor behavior is pc nonsense that was created so people could shirk responsibility, pushing it off on some "desease".

but it doesn't mean that AA isn't bullsh*t. theres nothing scientific or tested about AA.

i have no issues with AA but there are plenty of neurotransmitters that come into play with alcoholism. you can't just stop without some sort of support. it's kind of like telling a diabetic to just will himself into producing insulin.

ugh, like some people probably are more suceptable to heroin as well how about nicotine? crack? all diseases!! bullsh*t. it doesn't matter if you are slightly more prone to like drinking, that doesn't make it a disease. its just a matter of self control, and lack of it. a diabetic has a physical issue that is life threatening without suppliments. an alcoholic without alcohol is just %#@ fine.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: homercles337
So youre going to stop drinking? Im sorry to hear that.

There is a medication, but no psychologist is going to be able to prescribe it. Its called antabuse. Apparently, it makes you violently ill if you drink. However, you have to take it in the first place.

Something else you may want to look into is moderation management. In the states we have this very protestant perspective that abstinence is the only solution. Hence, AA and the belief in god bullshit. MM helps you learn how to drink moderately. Its quite successful is more progressive nations that have healthy views towards alcohol. Good luck!

HaHa. Moderation Management.
Seriously, any treatment that says you can continue to use a substance you are addicted to is bonkers.
I have met quite a few people who went to similiar moderation programs. None of them was able to continue to use a substance they were addicted to in moderation. In fact, almost all of them said they abused their substance of choice to excess, but told people they were doing well. They said it was great having a "program" that gave them an excuse to use, and an out if they were caught using by their loved ones.

By definition, you cannot use a substance you are addicted to in moderation.

When dealing with an addiction "success" rates are almost impossible to accurately prove.
Lying about using is one of the symptoms of addiction.
Perhaps the only program that can really show you some semblence of a success rate is one where you actually see other people in the program on a daily basis, and can see for yourself if they are using (though even then, some people can hide it).

actually success rates would be easy to prove if they felt like bothering.

you don't even need to draw blood these days.

a bit of follow up in the days/weeks after "success" with a breath test is enough.
you can lie all you want, you won't pass the breathalizer.

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
AA
is

bullsh*t
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nbwg_7sY1o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI0iXXxZulI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIOnTzg9lzA

wow, that series is bullshit. alcoholism is a disease, a progressive disease, and there are genes that tend to make one susceptible to alcohol abuse. i have about 7 people in my immediate family who are also alcoholics.

it is true some people are genetically more suseptable because they derive more pleasure from alcohol. the label of desease for something that is basically poor behavior is pc nonsense that was created so people could shirk responsibility, pushing it off on some "desease".

but it doesn't mean that AA isn't bullsh*t. theres nothing scientific or tested about AA.

i have no issues with AA but there are plenty of neurotransmitters that come into play with alcoholism. you can't just stop without some sort of support. it's kind of like telling a diabetic to just will himself into producing insulin.

ugh, like some people probably are more suceptable to heroin as well how about nicotine? crack? all diseases!! bullsh*t. it doesn't matter if you are slightly more prone to like drinking, that doesn't make it a disease. its just a matter of self control, and lack of it. a diabetic has a physical issue that is life threatening without suppliments. an alcoholic without alcohol is just %#@ fine.

wow, i wish you could experience one night like i do. when your whole brain is practically screaming for a drink, it's not a matter of will power anymore.

also, an alcoholic without alcohol could potentially die from lack of GABA, which causes the DTs.

 

[db]

May success in treatment find you, JohnCU. Approach it with an open mind, and don't stop listening if you think you are hearing something you "already know".

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
AA
is

bullsh*t
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nbwg_7sY1o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI0iXXxZulI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIOnTzg9lzA

wow, that series is bullshit. alcoholism is a disease, a progressive disease, and there are genes that tend to make one susceptible to alcohol abuse. i have about 7 people in my immediate family who are also alcoholics.

it is true some people are genetically more suseptable because they derive more pleasure from alcohol. the label of desease for something that is basically poor behavior is pc nonsense that was created so people could shirk responsibility, pushing it off on some "desease".

but it doesn't mean that AA isn't bullsh*t. theres nothing scientific or tested about AA.

i have no issues with AA but there are plenty of neurotransmitters that come into play with alcoholism. you can't just stop without some sort of support. it's kind of like telling a diabetic to just will himself into producing insulin.

ugh, like some people probably are more suceptable to heroin as well how about nicotine? crack? all diseases!! bullsh*t. it doesn't matter if you are slightly more prone to like drinking, that doesn't make it a disease. its just a matter of self control, and lack of it. a diabetic has a physical issue that is life threatening without suppliments. an alcoholic without alcohol is just %#@ fine.

wow, i wish you could experience one night like i do. when your whole brain is practically screaming for a drink, it's not a matter of will power anymore.

also, an alcoholic without alcohol could potentially die from lack of GABA, which causes the DTs.

just because it isn't a disease doesn't mean it doesn't involve some suffering.
but somehow i doubt its not as bad as chemo therapy or detoxing from heroin.

its a matter of will power. you dug the pit, now you have to dig yourself out.
people who tell you a disease want to feed you a message you WANT to believe.

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
AA
is

bullsh*t
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nbwg_7sY1o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI0iXXxZulI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIOnTzg9lzA

wow, that series is bullshit. alcoholism is a disease, a progressive disease, and there are genes that tend to make one susceptible to alcohol abuse. i have about 7 people in my immediate family who are also alcoholics.

it is true some people are genetically more suseptable because they derive more pleasure from alcohol. the label of desease for something that is basically poor behavior is pc nonsense that was created so people could shirk responsibility, pushing it off on some "desease".

but it doesn't mean that AA isn't bullsh*t. theres nothing scientific or tested about AA.

i have no issues with AA but there are plenty of neurotransmitters that come into play with alcoholism. you can't just stop without some sort of support. it's kind of like telling a diabetic to just will himself into producing insulin.

ugh, like some people probably are more suceptable to heroin as well how about nicotine? crack? all diseases!! bullsh*t. it doesn't matter if you are slightly more prone to like drinking, that doesn't make it a disease. its just a matter of self control, and lack of it. a diabetic has a physical issue that is life threatening without suppliments. an alcoholic without alcohol is just %#@ fine.

wow, i wish you could experience one night like i do. when your whole brain is practically screaming for a drink, it's not a matter of will power anymore.

also, an alcoholic without alcohol could potentially die from lack of GABA, which causes the DTs.

just because it isn't a disease doesn't mean it doesn't involve some suffering.
but somehow i doubt its not as bad as chemo therapy or detoxing from heroin.

its a matter of will power. you dug the pit, now you have to dig yourself out.
people who tell you a disease want to feed you a message you WANT to believe.

not as bad? does the fact that an otherwise healthy alcoholic can die without alcohol or some form of detox procedure not mean anything?

i'm not denying the will power thing, certainly that is a part of it, part of me has wanted to chain myself to my bed at night so even if i wanted a drink, i couldn't get up to get one, but then if i had to pee or the house caught on fire i'd be screwed.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
AA
is

bullsh*t
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nbwg_7sY1o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI0iXXxZulI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIOnTzg9lzA

wow, that series is bullshit. alcoholism is a disease, a progressive disease, and there are genes that tend to make one susceptible to alcohol abuse. i have about 7 people in my immediate family who are also alcoholics.

it is true some people are genetically more suseptable because they derive more pleasure from alcohol. the label of desease for something that is basically poor behavior is pc nonsense that was created so people could shirk responsibility, pushing it off on some "desease".

but it doesn't mean that AA isn't bullsh*t. theres nothing scientific or tested about AA.

i have no issues with AA but there are plenty of neurotransmitters that come into play with alcoholism. you can't just stop without some sort of support. it's kind of like telling a diabetic to just will himself into producing insulin.

ugh, like some people probably are more suceptable to heroin as well how about nicotine? crack? all diseases!! bullsh*t. it doesn't matter if you are slightly more prone to like drinking, that doesn't make it a disease. its just a matter of self control, and lack of it. a diabetic has a physical issue that is life threatening without suppliments. an alcoholic without alcohol is just %#@ fine.

wow, i wish you could experience one night like i do. when your whole brain is practically screaming for a drink, it's not a matter of will power anymore.

also, an alcoholic without alcohol could potentially die from lack of GABA, which causes the DTs.

just because it isn't a disease doesn't mean it doesn't involve some suffering.
but somehow i doubt its not as bad as chemo therapy or detoxing from heroin.

its a matter of will power. you dug the pit, now you have to dig yourself out.
people who tell you a disease want to feed you a message you WANT to believe.

not as bad? does the fact that an otherwise healthy alcoholic can die without alcohol or some form of detox procedure not mean anything?

i'm not denying the will power thing, certainly that is a part of it, part of me has wanted to chain myself to my bed at night so even if i wanted a drink, i couldn't get up to get one, but then if i had to pee or the house caught on fire i'd be screwed.

otherwise healthy?

if you drink so much that cold turkey is such a shock to your system that you forget to eat or drink, i don't think you were otherwise "healthy".

in that case cut down to moderation before going cold turkey obviously.

The reason AA is questionable is you wouldn't suggest any other treatment without proof. let alone one that apparently doesn't work.

step one.

stop rationalizing your drinking as a disease.
you drink because YOU drink.

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
AA
is

bullsh*t
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nbwg_7sY1o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI0iXXxZulI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIOnTzg9lzA

wow, that series is bullshit. alcoholism is a disease, a progressive disease, and there are genes that tend to make one susceptible to alcohol abuse. i have about 7 people in my immediate family who are also alcoholics.

it is true some people are genetically more suseptable because they derive more pleasure from alcohol. the label of desease for something that is basically poor behavior is pc nonsense that was created so people could shirk responsibility, pushing it off on some "desease".

but it doesn't mean that AA isn't bullsh*t. theres nothing scientific or tested about AA.

i have no issues with AA but there are plenty of neurotransmitters that come into play with alcoholism. you can't just stop without some sort of support. it's kind of like telling a diabetic to just will himself into producing insulin.

ugh, like some people probably are more suceptable to heroin as well how about nicotine? crack? all diseases!! bullsh*t. it doesn't matter if you are slightly more prone to like drinking, that doesn't make it a disease. its just a matter of self control, and lack of it. a diabetic has a physical issue that is life threatening without suppliments. an alcoholic without alcohol is just %#@ fine.

wow, i wish you could experience one night like i do. when your whole brain is practically screaming for a drink, it's not a matter of will power anymore.

also, an alcoholic without alcohol could potentially die from lack of GABA, which causes the DTs.

just because it isn't a disease doesn't mean it doesn't involve some suffering.
but somehow i doubt its not as bad as chemo therapy or detoxing from heroin.

its a matter of will power. you dug the pit, now you have to dig yourself out.
people who tell you a disease want to feed you a message you WANT to believe.

not as bad? does the fact that an otherwise healthy alcoholic can die without alcohol or some form of detox procedure not mean anything?

i'm not denying the will power thing, certainly that is a part of it, part of me has wanted to chain myself to my bed at night so even if i wanted a drink, i couldn't get up to get one, but then if i had to pee or the house caught on fire i'd be screwed.

otherwise healthy?

if you drink so much that cold turkey is such a shock to your system that you forget to eat or drink, i don't think you were otherwise "healthy".

in that case cut down to moderation before going cold turkey obviously.

The reason AA is questionable is you wouldn't suggest any other treatment without proof. let alone one that apparently doesn't work.

i haven't considered AA because i don't believe in a higher power.

 

[Jeff7181]

Where do your friends and family fit in?

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Where do your friends and family fit in?

they don't know. i keep it a secret.

 

[SsupernovaE]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
AA
is

bullsh*t
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nbwg_7sY1o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI0iXXxZulI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIOnTzg9lzA

wow, that series is bullshit. alcoholism is a disease, a progressive disease, and there are genes that tend to make one susceptible to alcohol abuse. i have about 7 people in my immediate family who are also alcoholics.

it is true some people are genetically more suseptable because they derive more pleasure from alcohol. the label of desease for something that is basically poor behavior is pc nonsense that was created so people could shirk responsibility, pushing it off on some "desease".

but it doesn't mean that AA isn't bullsh*t. theres nothing scientific or tested about AA.

i have no issues with AA but there are plenty of neurotransmitters that come into play with alcoholism. you can't just stop without some sort of support. it's kind of like telling a diabetic to just will himself into producing insulin.

ugh, like some people probably are more suceptable to heroin as well how about nicotine? crack? all diseases!! bullsh*t. it doesn't matter if you are slightly more prone to like drinking, that doesn't make it a disease. its just a matter of self control, and lack of it. a diabetic has a physical issue that is life threatening without suppliments. an alcoholic without alcohol is just %#@ fine.

wow, i wish you could experience one night like i do. when your whole brain is practically screaming for a drink, it's not a matter of will power anymore.

also, an alcoholic without alcohol could potentially die from lack of GABA, which causes the DTs.

just because it isn't a disease doesn't mean it doesn't involve some suffering.
but somehow i doubt its not as bad as chemo therapy or detoxing from heroin.

its a matter of will power. you dug the pit, now you have to dig yourself out.
people who tell you a disease want to feed you a message you WANT to believe.

I don't know about that. When I was in the hospital about three years ago, I had a roommate that was going through alcohol detox. After about two days he became incoherent, was shaking violently, shitting on himself, throwing up, sweating profusely, delusional, violent, and severely depressed. They had to tie him to his bed at one point because he punched one of the nurses and kept accusing me of "doing this to him."