so i want to "learn" linux

[Fayd]

what distro would you recommend?

i'm not looking for an easy distro, or one that uses a simple installer.

i'm looking more for something that would facilitate learning how to use linux to do some simple to more complex things... like setting up network file servers with access accounts, for example.

my experience with linux to date involves unsuccessfully trying to get it a version of redhat to use a palmV for selecting music to play. (giantdisc)

also, i've used fedora core(1) to a very limited extent.


that's pretty much it.

 

[imported_DarkPhantom36]

It really depends on what you want to learn. Do you want to learn the steps involved in making a distro work and how to do many of the steps that the installer would do for you? If so, you could try Linux From Scratch.

If you just want to learn how to use Linux, I don't see how going with a distro that has an advanced installer would hurt you. I mean, most things in Linux can be done manually even when the tools are available to do them automatically. In Ubuntu, you can still manually edit all of you config files and use dpkg to install .debs. Ubuntu provides configuration for many things, but these can all be done manually. At worst, you could try to manually configure something, and if you have trouble automatically do it and then compare the config files.

Do you have a more specific idea about what you want to do?

 

[tfinch2]

http://tldp.org/LDP/intro-linux/html/index.html

 

[Fayd]

i didnt forget about this thread, and thanks both.

i took a look at linux from scratch, and to me it seems exactly what i want. along with a big long guide to handhold me through it.

thanks tfinch, i'm sure that's gonna be extremely useful too.

this all is gonna go down in a week or so, when i get the parts for my new rig. (making my old rig the new linux dualbooting rig )

 

[imported_DarkPhantom36]

Awesome! Good luck with all that and make sure to check out the linux from scratch IRC channels. I started doing a linux from scratch install a few years ago and they were incredibly helpful.

 

[Bluestealth]

If your going to do Linux from Scratch... do yourself a favor and don't do it with bleeding edge hardware like me... I got through it... but it probably wasn't as enjoyable as it could have been

BTW if you run into trouble getting something to work... the Gentoo forum is a great place to go looking.

 

[programmer]

Fedora/Red Hat if you want to apply your knowledge in a business environment (e.g., make $$$ with it)

I'll add that IMO, Fedora 7 is a very nice distro; easy installer; well documented, but not for the casual user.

 

[shamgar03]

Yikes, LFS is pretty crazy. After you finish installing LFS do you have a package manager or do you have to install everything from scratch for the rest of your days. I find gentoo to be a good combination of educating, good documentation, and power. Most distro's are great until you want to make a big change, at which point most crash and burn. Gentoo is one of the few that will easily allow you to use every desktop/window manager in the history of man.

 

[Nothinman]

After you finish installing LFS do you have a package manager or do you have to install everything from scratch for the rest of your days.

I haven't used LFS myself but I can't imagine that it would have a package manager otherwise it would just be relabeled Gentoo. LFS is good for a learning experience, but that's about it.

Most distro's are great until you want to make a big change, at which point most crash and burn.

I have never had Debian crash and burn when making a "big change".

Gentoo is one of the few that will easily allow you to use every desktop/window manager in the history of man.

Um, that's not an uncommon feature. Debian and Ubuntu have pretty much all of them packaged up and when you install them they add an entry to the display manager so you can just pick which one you want to use when you login. You can also switch between them at runtime without any real issues, although I think that they're not displayed on the Gnome/KDE menus by default.

 

[BurnItDwn]

How about Slackware?
I know it isn't the most practical distro out there any more for servers or workstations, but it's still one of the best, if not the best, distros to learn with.

Otherwise, I can't recommend OpenBSD enough ... it's a little harder to set up and get started with .... but it's so well designed that I find it very tough to not recommend.

 

[Nothinman]

I know it isn't the most practical distro out there any more for servers or workstations, but it's still one of the best, if not the best, distros to learn with.

Meh, the lack of decent package management and BSD-style init (if it still uses that) makes it pretty unique which is a bad thing if you want to use that information on any other distro.

Otherwise, I can't recommend OpenBSD enough ... it's a little harder to set up and get started with .... but it's so well designed that I find it very tough to not recommend.

Again lack of decent package management kills any BSD for me on a desktop.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

I know it isn't the most practical distro out there any more for servers or workstations, but it's still one of the best, if not the best, distros to learn with.

Meh, the lack of decent package management and BSD-style init (if it still uses that) makes it pretty unique which is a bad thing if you want to use that information on any other distro.

Otherwise, I can't recommend OpenBSD enough ... it's a little harder to set up and get started with .... but it's so well designed that I find it very tough to not recommend.

Again lack of decent package management kills any BSD for me on a desktop.

There is a decent package management in most BSD's, i'm not familiar with anything but FreeBSD but the PKG system and the Ports system was excellent and from what i know about OpenBSD it's not much different, at least when it comes to the PKG system.

When it comes to support for packages, Ubuntu doesn't support all that many packages since Universe and Multiverse are unsupported repositories.

 

[Nothinman]

There is a decent package management in most BSD's, i'm not familiar with anything but FreeBSD but the PKG system and the Ports system was excellent and from what i know about OpenBSD it's not much different, at least when it comes to the PKG system.

Guess it depends on your definition of excellent, being able to install 2 versions of the same package accidentally definitely doesn't qualify for excellent in my mind.

When it comes to support for packages, Ubuntu doesn't support all that many packages since Universe and Multiverse are unsupported repositories.

No, but they're just rebuilt versions of the Debian packages which are well supported so there shouldn't be many issues.

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Nothinman

I know it isn't the most practical distro out there any more for servers or workstations, but it's still one of the best, if not the best, distros to learn with.

Meh, the lack of decent package management and BSD-style init (if it still uses that) makes it pretty unique which is a bad thing if you want to use that information on any other distro.

Otherwise, I can't recommend OpenBSD enough ... it's a little harder to set up and get started with .... but it's so well designed that I find it very tough to not recommend.

Again lack of decent package management kills any BSD for me on a desktop.

There is a decent package management in most BSD's, i'm not familiar with anything but FreeBSD but the PKG system and the Ports system was excellent and from what i know about OpenBSD it's not much different, at least when it comes to the PKG system.

When it comes to support for packages, Ubuntu doesn't support all that many packages since Universe and Multiverse are unsupported repositories.

they may be unsupported, but non-free and contrib are supported. You just need a new distro

 

[cleverhandle]

I've done LFS long ago, but I think it's a waste of time for learning purposes, unless you're specifically interested in learning how to make a distro of your own. If you don't already know what you're doing with Linux, then all you're really doing is learning to follow directions and watching things you don't understand flash by on screen. Much the same could be said of Gentoo.

The very best distro for really learning the system is Slackware. No frills, very very few configuration tools. Everything you want to do you can do (and usually have to do) at the command line with text files. If you can configure something on Slackware, you can most likely configure it on any other distro you want. That same lack of automation and configuration systems makes it less manageable in the long-term, but it's the best place to start, IMO.

Fedora/RH, for all the flak they take about GUI configurators, are actually pretty vanilla at their core. If you ignore (or don't install) the configuration programs, you can comfortably manage a Fedora/RH system on the command line. SuSE-based systems (in my admittedly dated experience with them) are just the opposite - if you don't use their GUI tools, they're a complete mess to manage. Debian-based systems have their own system for managing just about everything. Generally, those systems are extremely well-designed and robust, but are not necessarily similar to any other systems out there. On the plus side, with the rise of Ubuntu, they are at least well-documented with HowTo's and forum posts online, which is rather different than it was a few years back.

The BSD's (at least OpenBSD, with which I'm most familiar) have pretty much the same philosophy toward configuration as Slackware, but a lot of the lower-level stuff (disk configuration, drivers, booting) uses a totally different system than any Linux, though the concepts are similar. But if you're interested in a desktop system, you probably want a Linux one for the software availability, so the BSD's aren't such a great choice for learning.

 

[Looney]

Installing linux from scratch is easy:

<@insomnia> it only takes three commands to install Gentoo
<@insomnia> cfdisk /dev/hda && mkfs.xfs /dev/hda1 && mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/gentoo/ && chroot /mnt/gentoo/ && env-update && . /etc/profile && emerge sync && cd /usr/portage && scripts/bootsrap.sh && emerge system && emerge vim && vi /etc/fstab && emerge gentoo-dev-sources && cd /usr/src/linux && make menuconfig && make install modules_install && emerge gnome mozilla-firefox openoffice && emerge grub && cp /boot/grub/grub.conf.sample /boot/grub/grub.conf && vi /boot/grub/grub.conf && grub && init 6
<@insomnia> that's the first one

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

There is a decent package management in most BSD's, i'm not familiar with anything but FreeBSD but the PKG system and the Ports system was excellent and from what i know about OpenBSD it's not much different, at least when it comes to the PKG system.

Guess it depends on your definition of excellent, being able to install 2 versions of the same package accidentally definitely doesn't qualify for excellent in my mind.

When it comes to support for packages, Ubuntu doesn't support all that many packages since Universe and Multiverse are unsupported repositories.

No, but they're just rebuilt versions of the Debian packages which are well supported so there shouldn't be many issues.

Sometimes it's needed to have different versions installed at the same time and there are ways to fix it if you don't.

There are not more issues with them than there are with the Ports packages i'm sure, but otoh the ports system is an excellent system without many issues too.

Have you ever used FreeBSD with the PKG and Ports system extensively or do you just dismiss it out of general principle?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: nweaver

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Nothinman

I know it isn't the most practical distro out there any more for servers or workstations, but it's still one of the best, if not the best, distros to learn with.

Meh, the lack of decent package management and BSD-style init (if it still uses that) makes it pretty unique which is a bad thing if you want to use that information on any other distro.

Otherwise, I can't recommend OpenBSD enough ... it's a little harder to set up and get started with .... but it's so well designed that I find it very tough to not recommend.

Again lack of decent package management kills any BSD for me on a desktop.

There is a decent package management in most BSD's, i'm not familiar with anything but FreeBSD but the PKG system and the Ports system was excellent and from what i know about OpenBSD it's not much different, at least when it comes to the PKG system.

When it comes to support for packages, Ubuntu doesn't support all that many packages since Universe and Multiverse are unsupported repositories.

they may be unsupported, but non-free and contrib are supported. You just need a new distro

?

You mean a distro other than Ubuntu?

I know Debian is a much better distro when it comes to supported SW, the best out there afaik.

 

[Nothinman]

Have you ever used FreeBSD with the PKG and Ports system extensively or do you just dismiss it out of general principle?

I was forced to use it a while back and between svn, libdb versions and crap it was frustrating as hell.