So I went to a chiropractor hehe

[sumrtym]

I dated a massage thereapist / reflexologist for 3 years. I can tell you right now she made a believer out of me, even on the things I thought were crap. She could tell when I had a toothache and what side from my feet (I kid you not, and no, I didn't mention it or show anything about it before the massage).

The thing that I was really impressed with and sold me for sure was having some lower back pain for 3 days. On that 4th day, I started having trouble breathing because of the pain, especially deep breaths. She worked on me a couple days later for more than an hour (most painful experience of my life). Getting a treatment from her was never a "treat", it always hurt. She said I had a disc out of place in my lower back, and that it had also caused a rib to get moved out of place and it was hitting my lung (which explains the pains taking a deep breath). Hurt the rest of the day after her treatment as well. Got up the next day absolutely pain free and haven't had that problem again.

She was a bit of a different case though. The hospitals actually referred people to her when they couldn't do anything for them. But I certainly don't dismiss these treatments, or even what I thought as nonsense refloxology I-can-fix-your-toothache-working-on-your-foot, anymore. I'm still misturstful of INDIVIDUAL chiaropracters, etc, especially knowing how badly one can injure you who doesn't know for sure what they are doing. (And yes, I tried not to piss her off because she so could have crippled me if she wanted to).

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: BD2003

you bring up a good point... if you don't line their pockets, how do you think the field will pay for research in order to find out without having to deal with trail and error?

Hmm, I dunno, maybe federally or privately funded research grants? Ah but wait, you have to be legitimate to get those....I find it hard to believe that you are actually defending any sort of "doctor" doing unnecessary procedures to fund research.

also, first-time patients do come into chiropractic clinics with all types of problems that chiropractic can't really treat as effectively as conventional medicine. when that happens, the chiropractor refers out. if they don't they end up sued for malpractice.

In theory, sounds great. In practice, the gist of what I have been hearing from friends, family, and random people is that unless its REALLY obvious he can't help you from the start, it'll take a good few weeks of lining their pockets before they refer you elsewhere. Which is easy to get away with...no one is going into a chiropractors office with a life threatening condition, so there's plenty of time.

no one just says, "oh. you've got diabetes. let me just go ahead and crack your thoracics. pay up." that's ridiculous and it seems like you've fallen in with the rest of the decreasing number of medical doctors who bought into the propaganda that chiropractic is quackery. if you HONESTLY think that's what chiropractors do, you really need to learn more about chiropractors. go job shadow one over the break or something just to learn a little more about it.

Because they couldnt get away with that. I doubt there's many chiropractors with the balls to do that. But when someone comes in with back pain, it could be a myriad of problems. I've no problem with fixing spinal alignments, I do have a problem with diagnosing by doing. An xray can tell you a lot, but not everything. The only reason they can get away with doing so is because it's uninvasive, and unlikely to lead to any further aggravation of symptoms. Medical doctors don't have that convenient luxury.

nih just started giving out more money to chiropractic research. like i said before, there is increasing amounts of research that supports chiropractic as a legitimate form of professional healthcare... and as it grows, so do the amounts of money going towards research.

also, it sounds like your friends, family, and whatever are going to the wrong chiropractor. if you read through this thread, there are more people praising chiropractic and sharing their experience with chiropractic than there are bashing it. you seem to be the only person bashing it that i consider intelligent enough to discuss it and learn a little more about it. i could be wrong [in the assumption that you're willing to be open-minded enough to discuss it and look more into it before formulating a solid misinformed opinion].

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: thecrecarc
chiropractors are totally true and awesome!

now excuse me, i gotta take this hammer to my car's tire. i think its got a bad spark plug you see....

you should read up on some of galen's work... also look up some stuff on applied kinesiology.

funny joke, though

I really hope you don't mean Galen, as in 2nd century AD Galen.

?? why wouldn't you hope i meant galen hieronymus? lots of his writings and work with applied kinesiology, biomechanics, orthopedics, and health were dead-on.

 

[z0mb13]

eits, thanks for the exercise suggestions!

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: BD2003

you bring up a good point... if you don't line their pockets, how do you think the field will pay for research in order to find out without having to deal with trail and error?

Hmm, I dunno, maybe federally or privately funded research grants? Ah but wait, you have to be legitimate to get those....I find it hard to believe that you are actually defending any sort of "doctor" doing unnecessary procedures to fund research.

also, first-time patients do come into chiropractic clinics with all types of problems that chiropractic can't really treat as effectively as conventional medicine. when that happens, the chiropractor refers out. if they don't they end up sued for malpractice.

In theory, sounds great. In practice, the gist of what I have been hearing from friends, family, and random people is that unless its REALLY obvious he can't help you from the start, it'll take a good few weeks of lining their pockets before they refer you elsewhere. Which is easy to get away with...no one is going into a chiropractors office with a life threatening condition, so there's plenty of time.

no one just says, "oh. you've got diabetes. let me just go ahead and crack your thoracics. pay up." that's ridiculous and it seems like you've fallen in with the rest of the decreasing number of medical doctors who bought into the propaganda that chiropractic is quackery. if you HONESTLY think that's what chiropractors do, you really need to learn more about chiropractors. go job shadow one over the break or something just to learn a little more about it.

Because they couldnt get away with that. I doubt there's many chiropractors with the balls to do that. But when someone comes in with back pain, it could be a myriad of problems. I've no problem with fixing spinal alignments, I do have a problem with diagnosing by doing. An xray can tell you a lot, but not everything. The only reason they can get away with doing so is because it's uninvasive, and unlikely to lead to any further aggravation of symptoms. Medical doctors don't have that convenient luxury.

nih just started giving out more money to chiropractic research. like i said before, there is increasing amounts of research that supports chiropractic as a legitimate form of professional healthcare... and as it grows, so do the amounts of money going towards research.

also, it sounds like your friends, family, and whatever are going to the wrong chiropractor. if you read through this thread, there are more people praising chiropractic and sharing their experience with chiropractic than there are bashing it. you seem to be the only person bashing it that i consider intelligent enough to discuss it and learn a little more about it. i could be wrong [in the assumption that you're willing to be open-minded enough to discuss it and look more into it before formulating a solid misinformed opinion].

As I said before, I'm always open to learn, but it's going to take *solid* evidence to persuade me. Anecdotal evidence, and useless studies don't go very far. I've nothing against any sort of treatment, or any sort of research, however pure or impractical. I only expect the research to be rigorous and thorough, and the treatments to be judiciously applied only after there is at least a base amount of determination that it will help before the fact, not after.

Although being an open fan of Galen's work is going to trash any sort of credibility fairly quickly.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: sumrtym
I dated a massage thereapist / reflexologist for 3 years. I can tell you right now she made a believer out of me, even on the things I thought were crap. She could tell when I had a toothache and what side from my feet (I kid you not, and no, I didn't mention it or show anything about it before the massage).

The thing that I was really impressed with and sold me for sure was having some lower back pain for 3 days. On that 4th day, I started having trouble breathing because of the pain, especially deep breaths. She worked on me a couple days later for more than an hour (most painful experience of my life). Getting a treatment from her was never a "treat", it always hurt. She said I had a disc out of place in my lower back, and that it had also caused a rib to get moved out of place and it was hitting my lung (which explains the pains taking a deep breath). Hurt the rest of the day after her treatment as well. Got up the next day absolutely pain free and haven't had that problem again.

She was a bit of a different case though. The hospitals actually referred people to her when they couldn't do anything for them. But I certainly don't dismiss these treatments, or even what I thought as nonsense refloxology I-can-fix-your-toothache-working-on-your-foot, anymore. I'm still misturstful of INDIVIDUAL chiaropracters, etc, especially knowing how badly one can injure you who doesn't know for sure what they are doing. (And yes, I tried not to piss her off because she so could have crippled me if she wanted to).

speaking as a CMT, if your girlfriend worked on you and "found" a slipped disk she had no business working on you. that type of injury is out of our scope of practice. Also i would like to know how a rib got of of place without being broken. i have had many clients tell me their rib is out of place when in all that is wrong is a pulled intercostal muscle. your ribs are attached to your verterbra and your costal cartilages. they are not going to move out of place.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: thecrecarc
chiropractors are totally true and awesome!

now excuse me, i gotta take this hammer to my car's tire. i think its got a bad spark plug you see....

you should read up on some of galen's work... also look up some stuff on applied kinesiology.

funny joke, though

I really hope you don't mean Galen, as in 2nd century AD Galen.

?? why wouldn't you hope i meant galen hieronymus? lots of his writings and work with applied kinesiology, biomechanics, orthopedics, and health were dead-on.

And while he deserves all the credit he gets for being one of the fathers of medicine, a whole lot more than not of his writings and work are pretty well off by today's standards. You know, the whole four humours thing and all...blood letting, all that good stuff. We're pretty well past that. Interesting reading no doubt, but hardly something to learn from other than for historical purposes.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: z0mb13
eits, thanks for the exercise suggestions!

anytime, man. have fun

let me know if you have any improvements.

one of my professors was the chiropractor for the 2000 or 2001 (i don't remember) professional driver champion. his personal best before seeing my professor was something like 520 yards or so. after getting adjusted by my professor, he started driving the ball 640 yards or so and would win championships all over the place. this was while he was practicing in california.

the guy was so greatful for what my professor did that he gave his championship trophy to him he's got it up in his office.

 

[CollectiveUnconscious]

Originally posted by: eits
?? why wouldn't you hope i meant galen hieronymus? lots of his writings and work with applied kinesiology, biomechanics, orthopedics, and health were dead-on.

Ibn Sina was much more beneficial to medicine than Galen. Galen was Hippocrates and Plato reborn into one...blah.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: BD2003

you bring up a good point... if you don't line their pockets, how do you think the field will pay for research in order to find out without having to deal with trail and error?

Hmm, I dunno, maybe federally or privately funded research grants? Ah but wait, you have to be legitimate to get those....I find it hard to believe that you are actually defending any sort of "doctor" doing unnecessary procedures to fund research.

also, first-time patients do come into chiropractic clinics with all types of problems that chiropractic can't really treat as effectively as conventional medicine. when that happens, the chiropractor refers out. if they don't they end up sued for malpractice.

In theory, sounds great. In practice, the gist of what I have been hearing from friends, family, and random people is that unless its REALLY obvious he can't help you from the start, it'll take a good few weeks of lining their pockets before they refer you elsewhere. Which is easy to get away with...no one is going into a chiropractors office with a life threatening condition, so there's plenty of time.

no one just says, "oh. you've got diabetes. let me just go ahead and crack your thoracics. pay up." that's ridiculous and it seems like you've fallen in with the rest of the decreasing number of medical doctors who bought into the propaganda that chiropractic is quackery. if you HONESTLY think that's what chiropractors do, you really need to learn more about chiropractors. go job shadow one over the break or something just to learn a little more about it.

Because they couldnt get away with that. I doubt there's many chiropractors with the balls to do that. But when someone comes in with back pain, it could be a myriad of problems. I've no problem with fixing spinal alignments, I do have a problem with diagnosing by doing. An xray can tell you a lot, but not everything. The only reason they can get away with doing so is because it's uninvasive, and unlikely to lead to any further aggravation of symptoms. Medical doctors don't have that convenient luxury.

nih just started giving out more money to chiropractic research. like i said before, there is increasing amounts of research that supports chiropractic as a legitimate form of professional healthcare... and as it grows, so do the amounts of money going towards research.

also, it sounds like your friends, family, and whatever are going to the wrong chiropractor. if you read through this thread, there are more people praising chiropractic and sharing their experience with chiropractic than there are bashing it. you seem to be the only person bashing it that i consider intelligent enough to discuss it and learn a little more about it. i could be wrong [in the assumption that you're willing to be open-minded enough to discuss it and look more into it before formulating a solid misinformed opinion].

As I said before, I'm always open to learn, but it's going to take *solid* evidence to persuade me. Anecdotal evidence, and useless studies don't go very far. I've nothing against any sort of treatment, or any sort of research, however pure or impractical. I only expect the research to be rigorous and thorough, and the treatments to be judiciously applied only after there is at least a base amount of determination that it will help before the fact, not after.

Although being an open fan of Galen's work is going to trash any sort of credibility fairly quickly.

i'm as big a fan as galen's work as i am a fan of nostradomas's predictions. just because i said the guy should look into some of galen's work doesn't mean i buy all of it. i don't buy into the biles or anything. but the work he did regarding applied kinesiology and the orthopedic advances he made were way ahead of his time.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: sumrtym
I dated a massage thereapist / reflexologist for 3 years. I can tell you right now she made a believer out of me, even on the things I thought were crap. She could tell when I had a toothache and what side from my feet (I kid you not, and no, I didn't mention it or show anything about it before the massage).

The thing that I was really impressed with and sold me for sure was having some lower back pain for 3 days. On that 4th day, I started having trouble breathing because of the pain, especially deep breaths. She worked on me a couple days later for more than an hour (most painful experience of my life). Getting a treatment from her was never a "treat", it always hurt. She said I had a disc out of place in my lower back, and that it had also caused a rib to get moved out of place and it was hitting my lung (which explains the pains taking a deep breath). Hurt the rest of the day after her treatment as well. Got up the next day absolutely pain free and haven't had that problem again.

She was a bit of a different case though. The hospitals actually referred people to her when they couldn't do anything for them. But I certainly don't dismiss these treatments, or even what I thought as nonsense refloxology I-can-fix-your-toothache-working-on-your-foot, anymore. I'm still misturstful of INDIVIDUAL chiaropracters, etc, especially knowing how badly one can injure you who doesn't know for sure what they are doing. (And yes, I tried not to piss her off because she so could have crippled me if she wanted to).

speaking as a CMT, if your girlfriend worked on you and "found" a slipped disk she had no business working on you. that type of injury is our of our scope of practice. Also i would like to know how a rib got of of place without being broken. i have had many clients tell me their rib is out of place when in all that is wrong is a pulled intercostal muscle. your ribs are attached to your verterbra and your costal cartilages. they are not going to move out of place.

ribs go out of place all the time. it's very, very common... especially if you got done doing a lot of lifting or running or something. it's a very quick and easy adjustment. basically, the rib head subluxates out of the groove... it usually happens because of intercostal muscle pull.

 

[eits]

i just wanted to thank everyone for a good discussion, so far, tonight. it's been spirited and fun

i'm not leaving or anything... just wanted to interject.

 

[azoomee]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: BD2003
.....

Which tells me exactly what I'm thinking. Some problems they can fix, some they cant. They claim to fix all of them, and rather than go to lengths to validate it, they just turn the blind eye, and think that ignorance is bliss.

I'm all ears to hear otherwise, but to me, it sounds 10% valid, 90% absurd.

according to whom? where'd you hear that? i don't know a single chiropractor who claims that. i'm sure there are some piss poor chiropractors out there who are under the delusion that they can "fix them all," but everyone knows that's absurd.

chiropractors treat what they know they can treat and refer out what they know others can treat. if i end up having a patient with severe edema in their feet, trouble breathing, and a tall, peaked t-wave on their ekg, i'm going to send them straight to a cardiologist asap without hesitation because they have some serious anterior cardiac ischemia, which isn't in my scope of practice. i'm sure most chiropractors in the world would feel the same way. if they don't, then they should rightfully be called quacks.

When I lived in Corning, NY -- there used to be a chiropractor who would advertise on the radio AND in the newspaper claims that they could cure viruses, infections (ie bacterial based), diseases (dont recall what type), and the standard stuff (back ache, etc). This really stood out in my mind as something that just shouldn't be.

 

[azoomee]

Originally posted by: thecrecarc
chiropractors are totally true and awesome!

now excuse me, i gotta take this hammer to my car's tire. i think its got a bad spark plug you see....

Good one -- LOL

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: azoomee

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: BD2003
.....

Which tells me exactly what I'm thinking. Some problems they can fix, some they cant. They claim to fix all of them, and rather than go to lengths to validate it, they just turn the blind eye, and think that ignorance is bliss.

I'm all ears to hear otherwise, but to me, it sounds 10% valid, 90% absurd.

according to whom? where'd you hear that? i don't know a single chiropractor who claims that. i'm sure there are some piss poor chiropractors out there who are under the delusion that they can "fix them all," but everyone knows that's absurd.

chiropractors treat what they know they can treat and refer out what they know others can treat. if i end up having a patient with severe edema in their feet, trouble breathing, and a tall, peaked t-wave on their ekg, i'm going to send them straight to a cardiologist asap without hesitation because they have some serious anterior cardiac ischemia, which isn't in my scope of practice. i'm sure most chiropractors in the world would feel the same way. if they don't, then they should rightfully be called quacks.

When I lived in Corning, NY -- there used to be a chiropractor who would advertise on the radio AND in the newspaper claims that they could cure viruses, infections (ie bacterial based), diseases (dont recall what type), and the standard stuff (back ache, etc). This really stood out in my mind as something that just shouldn't be.

you're right... it shouldn't be. i bet his ass got sued every month.

 

[OrganizedChaos]

i get ads in the mail from these guys every once in awhile.

http://www.billericachiro.com/

seem like nutjobs to me.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: OrganizedChaos
i get ads in the mail from these guys every once in awhile.

http://www.billericachiro.com/

seem like nutjobs to me.

i'm not gonna lie... that's one creepy-ass ad... reminds me of 'vanilla sky.'

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: joshw10
Went to a chiropractor yesterday for the first time. I hurt my back about a month ago, combination from squats and then playing basketball I think, just overall becoming active too quickly after a few years of inactivity. It hurt right on the spine in my lower back and I can't lean backwards very far. I got it x-rayed and it was negative, someone recommended me a chiropractor so I figured what the hell, I'll see what it's about for the life-experience.

During the exam, the chiropractor said he found a misalignment in my spine, which was right around the area that I said I had pain. It would have been nice to see if he had found that same misalignment had I not told him where the pain was, but I guess it doesn't work that way.

Then I got some kind of hot electric massage that was nice, then a couple of back crackings, followed by a nice deep massage for about 25 minutes, then some other kind of massage table with a roller that goes up and down the back for about 10 minutes.

So basically, I got a fancy massage that's partially covered by insurance and cost me about $20. Not too bad a deal I guess =)

Didn't he "crack your back"

I did hte same exact thing you did with same symptoms and same explanation. For me, I couldn't sleep the pain was so bad. He did all the things you mentioned, then he manipulated my spine and damn, if it didn't work ....

 

[d3n]

I think it would be fair to say there are some good and some bad chiropractors. I defiantly see some value in chiropractic to manipulate the vertebra. Especially in a case like my daughter who had scoliosis. The improved curve we saw speaks for itself. There is not a recommended 'MD' method for correcting this that does not involve surgery. Who here has every heard anything good come out of joint surgery? At bests it maintains the status quo of a deteriorating condition.

I don?t really subscribe to the whole holistic approach to chiropractic. Still, several MD's told me my daughter is too small and her condition wasn?t even sever enough to operate on. Go home and wait until you qualify was the medical advice. That?s we turned to the chiropractor. It was well worth checking into. It bought us time to let her grow without the condition getting worse and to reasearch our options. We researched and found that there is a nationally recommended school that many chiropractors go to. It?s called Palmer I think.

Still, we didn?t see it as a end of the road stop. We kept after treatment methods and happened onto something that was even better. A modified series of risser (full torso) cast that has shown to show improve spinal curves rapidly (over about six months) Actual correction with this was far more than a prescribed brace. Braces at best put a hold on the worsening of the curve it starts again as soon as it?s removed.

The Shiners? hospitals in Salt Lake and Erie PA are the only places in the US that do this. The procedure came from France and is a surgery in itself since ribs are restricted and vertebrae are manipulated. It seems pretty barbaric to most people at first but our daughter didn?t seem to mind and had worn a couple holes in the casts by the time they were redone. Best of all after it was done the curve holds at an imperceptible angle without fused bones (and stunted growth associated with that practice), rods, pins, scars or much if any further treatment according to the handful of MDs in the US that do this. We plan a couple of annual trips to the chiropractor just to keep an eye on things.

 

[Rayden]

I love going to the chiropractor. I went all the time with my mom and got an adjustment when I was little. Now that I'm in college its not really a priority.