So if subs only need like 10 or 20 watts going through them...

[Accipiter22]

I'm refering to my thread here: Thread where someone claims that I wasted money buying an 1100 watt amp because my subs wouldn't sound any different running on say a 50 watt amp.....so why do larger amps even exist?? Why hasn't anyone caught on really? And why do manufacturers bother making amps that big? Why not just make a 100 watt amp and charge the same as for a 1000 watt, and just stop making 1000 watt amps...

 

[mchammer]

42

 

[Atomicus]

Originally posted by: mchammer
42

owned :laugh:

 

[jfall]

they don't know what they are talking about.

It depends on the sub and how much power it requires to move it to it's full potential. If the subs are fully powered at 50w then having a 1100 amp would be overkill. But there aren't too many subs that are fully powered at 50w

 

[Viper GTS]

Couple reasons.

First, power required to reach a given decibel level increases exponentially. A very small increase in db level requires a HUGE increase in power. It's been a long time since I did anything speaker related but IIRC every 3 db = doubled power requirements.

Second, you don't want your amp operating near it's peak output. Clipping an amp = bad for your sub.

Viper GTS

 

[Howard]

Nah, glen's saying that you only need low power for a system that "sounds good", apparently. He justifies this by saying that a flat response sounds "harsh", though I didn't see any data he used to back up this claim.

Anyway, the maximum amp power correlates (logarithmically) to the maximum loudness. A 1000W amplifier can net you a 10dB higher maximum SPL than a 100W amplifier can, ignoring power compression.

 

[J Heartless Slick]

Originally posted by: Accipiter22
I'm refering to my thread here: Thread where someone claims that I wasted money buying an 1100 watt amp because my subs wouldn't sound any different running on say a 50 watt amp.....so why do larger amps even exist?? Why hasn't anyone caught on really? And why do manufacturers bother making amps that big? Why not just make a 100 watt amp and charge the same as for a 1000 watt, and just stop making 1000 watt amps...

Not all amps at the same wattage are equal.

Speaker may only be using 10 or 20 watts at steady state. This does not take in account the dynamic range of music and the power needed to reproduce this range without driving the amp into distortion.

You will need more than 20 watts to reproduce music even at normal sound levels without distortion.

 

[AStar617]

Take your pick, that commenter must have had:

1) Some really cheap, crappy subs

2) A really cheap, crappy amp

3) The car audio installation skills/know-how of a rhesus monkey

4) Any combination of 1), 2), and 3) above

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

I'm no audio pundit, but I thought it had something to do with peak power versus continuous power (RMS?). Also, the size, brand, and enclosure would make a big difference in power requirements.

edit: I'm too slow and ignorant to be responding in this thread.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: J Heartless Slick

Originally posted by: Accipiter22
I'm refering to my thread here: Thread where someone claims that I wasted money buying an 1100 watt amp because my subs wouldn't sound any different running on say a 50 watt amp.....so why do larger amps even exist?? Why hasn't anyone caught on really? And why do manufacturers bother making amps that big? Why not just make a 100 watt amp and charge the same as for a 1000 watt, and just stop making 1000 watt amps...

Not all amps at the same wattage are equal.

Speaker may only be using 10 or 20 watts at steady state. This does not take in account the dynamic range of music and the power needed to reproduce this range without driving the amp into distortion.

You will need more than 20 watts to reproduce music even at normal sound levels without distortion.

Less than 10W, usually, and the transients, depending on the target peak SPL, could require hundreds of watts... :shocked:

 

[Cattlegod]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Couple reasons.

First, power required to reach a given decibel level increases exponentially. A very small increase in db level requires a HUGE increase in power. It's been a long time since I did anything speaker related but IIRC every 3 db = doubled power requirements.

Second, you don't want your amp operating near it's peak output. Clipping an amp = bad for your sub.

Viper GTS

that is a myth, if your amp clips, you don't get a power spike at all, it just hits the peak power output and sends a dirty signal to the speakers.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: Cattlegod

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Couple reasons.

First, power required to reach a given decibel level increases exponentially. A very small increase in db level requires a HUGE increase in power. It's been a long time since I did anything speaker related but IIRC every 3 db = doubled power requirements.

Second, you don't want your amp operating near it's peak output. Clipping an amp = bad for your sub.

Viper GTS

that is a myth, if your amp clips, you don't get a power spike at all, it just hits the peak power output and sends a dirty signal to the speakers.

Did I say it produced a power spike?

All I said was it's bad for the sub.

Viper GTS

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: Cattlegod

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Couple reasons.

First, power required to reach a given decibel level increases exponentially. A very small increase in db level requires a HUGE increase in power. It's been a long time since I did anything speaker related but IIRC every 3 db = doubled power requirements.

Second, you don't want your amp operating near it's peak output. Clipping an amp = bad for your sub.

Viper GTS

that is a myth, if your amp clips, you don't get a power spike at all, it just hits the peak power output and sends a dirty signal to the speakers.

Did I say it produced a power spike?

All I said was it's bad for the sub.

Viper GTS

Not nearly as bad for the tweeters.

 

[Cattlegod]

he is full of crap. a 20hz signal at 80db would be hardly even loud enough to hear. you need a LOT of power to put out the low frequencies at a high enough SPL to hear.

my system was putting out 140db at 33 hz with the windows up, and 147db at 33 hz with the windows down. It ended up taking 3rd place in the SPL drag race I entered it in.

 

[Cattlegod]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: Cattlegod

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Couple reasons.

First, power required to reach a given decibel level increases exponentially. A very small increase in db level requires a HUGE increase in power. It's been a long time since I did anything speaker related but IIRC every 3 db = doubled power requirements.

Second, you don't want your amp operating near it's peak output. Clipping an amp = bad for your sub.

Viper GTS

that is a myth, if your amp clips, you don't get a power spike at all, it just hits the peak power output and sends a dirty signal to the speakers.

Did I say it produced a power spike?

All I said was it's bad for the sub.

Viper GTS

it is not bad for the sub, at all, it is a myth. the only way it would be bad is if it did produce a powerspike. the only way you are going to get a powerspike is if you have a terribly designed amp (home made).

 

[glen]

Originally posted by: Howard
Nah, glen's saying that you only need low power for a system that "sounds good", apparently. He justifies this by saying that a flat response sounds "harsh", though I didn't see any data he used to back up this claim.

Anyway, the maximum amp power correlates (logarithmically) to the maximum loudness. A 1000W amplifier can net you a 10dB higher maximum SPL than a 100W amplifier can, ignoring power compression.

You got it sort of right.
A flat response is harsh as hell.
I don't know how you would know that unless you were in the industry or could set it up and listen for your self. I did not know until I set my car up flat, and thought my god this sounds terrible ? then I called a guy who is a professional consultant in the audio industry, and he told me.

What I am saying, is that you need the lows LOUDER than the highs.

 

[Accipiter22]

ooooooooooooooooo I see

 

[glen]

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
he is full of crap. a 20hz signal at 80db would be hardly even loud enough to hear. you need a LOT of power to put out the low frequencies at a high enough SPL to hear.

my system was putting out 140db at 33 hz with the windows up, and 147db at 33 hz with the windows down. It ended up taking 3rd place in the SPL drag race I entered it in.

You can't hear 80db?
You don't know what you are talking about.

That would be audible in any normal enviroment, and percieved as loud in a sound proof room. Loud car stereo systems are 110db. FOr lsitening, I can't see the need to produce mroe than 110 db.

 

[myjaja]

LOL @ THIS THREAD!!!

Most amps don't even say the truth about their watts. Like off branded amps. Those amps say it has 1200 watts. That piece of sh!t dosn't have a 1200 watts. It's like 35 watts per channel. Have you ever checked the rms on it? Oh yeah, each sub is different. You can't say all subs need 10 or 20 watts. Even speakers need more than that. Look up more information before posting a stupid thread like this one.

 

[glen]

Originally posted by: myjaja
LOL @ THIS THREAD!!!

Most amps don't even say the truth about their watts. Like off branded amps. Those amps say it has 1200 watts. That piece of sh!t dosn't have a 1200 watts. It's like 35 watts per channel. Have you ever checked the rms on it? Oh yeah, each sub is different. You can't say all subs need 10 or 20 watts going throught them. Speakers need more than that. Look up more information before posting a stupid thread like this one.

I am the only person who seems to have posted information, or seems to knwo what teh theil Small parameters even mean.

 

[davestar]

Originally posted by: glen

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
he is full of crap. a 20hz signal at 80db would be hardly even loud enough to hear. you need a LOT of power to put out the low frequencies at a high enough SPL to hear.

my system was putting out 140db at 33 hz with the windows up, and 147db at 33 hz with the windows down. It ended up taking 3rd place in the SPL drag race I entered it in.

You can't hear 80db?
You don't know what you are talking about.

That would be audible in any normal enviroment, and percieved as loud in a sound proof room. Loud car stereo systems are 110db. FOr lsitening, I can't see the need to produce mroe than 110 db.

the human ear is not a "flat" receiver - you've been arguing this same point when you say that a system shouldn't be setup "flat". we perceive certain frequencies to be louder than others even if identical SPLs are measured for all frequencies.

110dB at 20 Hz sounds quieter than 110dB at 200 Hz to the human ear.

 

[Rubycon]

Headroom.

The reason why flat response sounds so dry is because of the function of the ear's sensitivity to lower frequencies. Since you cannot equalize an acoustic instrument they must be larger if they are to play audibly. This is why a contrabass is huge compared to an oboe and folks that play tubas need a lot more air than trumpet players.

Thiel, Small, Kellog, Rice, (Amar) Bose, Paul Klipsch, Martin Colloms - who are these people again?

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: glen

Originally posted by: myjaja
LOL @ THIS THREAD!!!

Most amps don't even say the truth about their watts. Like off branded amps. Those amps say it has 1200 watts. That piece of sh!t dosn't have a 1200 watts. It's like 35 watts per channel. Have you ever checked the rms on it? Oh yeah, each sub is different. You can't say all subs need 10 or 20 watts going throught them. Speakers need more than that. Look up more information before posting a stupid thread like this one.

I am the only person who seems to have posted information, or seems to knwo what teh theil Small parameters even mean.

::raises hand::

OH CALL ON ME!

But seriously...I have measured speakers T/S parameters so I do know what they are...and yes, misinformation is flowing throughout this thread. Theory on sub design can encompass an entire book....if you really want true information, go read

 

[glen]

Originally posted by: davestar


the human ear is not a "flat" receiver - you've been arguing this same point when you say that a system shouldn't be setup "flat". we perceive certain frequencies to be louder than others even if identical SPLs are measured for all frequencies.

110dB at 20 Hz sounds quieter than 110dB at 200 Hz to the human ear.

110dB at 20 Hz sounds quieter than 110dB at 200 Hz to the human ear.
Yes, but that is not what I am talking about.
I am talking about how you want your response curve to look on an RTA when you are playing pink noise.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: davestar

Originally posted by: glen

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
he is full of crap. a 20hz signal at 80db would be hardly even loud enough to hear. you need a LOT of power to put out the low frequencies at a high enough SPL to hear.

my system was putting out 140db at 33 hz with the windows up, and 147db at 33 hz with the windows down. It ended up taking 3rd place in the SPL drag race I entered it in.

You can't hear 80db?
You don't know what you are talking about.

That would be audible in any normal enviroment, and percieved as loud in a sound proof room. Loud car stereo systems are 110db. FOr lsitening, I can't see the need to produce mroe than 110 db.

the human ear is not a "flat" receiver - you've been arguing this same point when you say that a system shouldn't be setup "flat". we perceive certain frequencies to be louder than others even if identical SPLs are measured for all frequencies.

110dB at 20 Hz sounds quieter than 110dB at 200 Hz to the human ear.

A good mix for a movie will take that into account....and when you hear a band play live you don't hear it through an equalizer. This is why you want a flat response(although not all flat responses are necessarily good).