So is ABS really effective?

[Lean L]

So long story short, I took my mom's car for a drive today because I didn't feel like warming up my car and hers was already warm. I didn't notice that the front tires were nearly bald.

There's maybe 3" of snow on the ground here and it's slippery as hell. First corner I hit, I gave it twice the braking distance I normally drive with and ABS kicks in hard... Lucky for me there were no cars at the T intersection or I would have hit someone slowly. I used to drive a front wheel drive car with no ABS and it would have stopped in the distance I gave it even if it slid around a little bit. Is ABS really helpful in most cases?

Not only does it increase braking distance, it makes it harder to predict when you will stop. I used to slide around the snow with my FWD for fun when I had a parking lot to myself. Most of time you can tell that you were not going past a certain point but this ABS makes it so that you have no idea where you will be when it finally stops.

BTW, I told her to replace those tires ASAP. I'm thinking of maybe pulling the ABS fuse until she is able to replace them in a few days... Think she will be able to figure out how to put it back in?

 

[The Boston Dangler]

while you're at it, cut those seat belts too. everyone knows it's better to be thrown clear of the vehicle.

 

[OutHouse]

lol whut?

 

[Lean L]

while you're at it, cut those seat belts too. everyone knows it's better to be thrown clear of the vehicle.

Straw man. ABS is known to increase braking distance. The debate is whether bald tires are better off with no ABS as it will kick in every time.

 

[someone16]

How about not driving until you get new tires?

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Straw man. ABS is known to increase braking distance. The debate is whether bald tires are better off with no ABS as it will kick in every time.

ABS is known to increase braking distance in only a specific set of circumstances: something loose like snow or gravel that can build up a wedge in front of a locked tire. In all other conditions ABS is infinitely superior and even in the conditions where normal brakes stop shorter ABS stops straighter and safer.

The REAL debate is whether you're truly stupid or just a really bad troll as nobody but a complete jackass worries about what happens when you drive on bald tires.

 

[Broheim]

ABS can increase braking distance in a slippery/loose surface like snow, but it improves vehicle control. It's better to get in a fender bender than drive off the road and into a tree.

 

[Spungo]

How about not driving until you get new tires?

Yeah, no. I said on a car forum that cars with bad tires should be impounded and crushed. The forum unanimously agreed that people with bald tires just need to drive slower. I thought they were trolling me but it would certainly explain why nobody drives faster than 20mph in winter. People choose to drive incredibly slow instead of buying proper tires.

 

[Lean L]

How about not driving until you get new tires?

This is a bit off topic but it's just interesting. I could write a whole paper on the topic that your statement reminds me of. But here is the outline for such a paper if I were to write it.

Title: The elephant vs the rider: An analytical look of logic vs human nature.

Intro: Elephant vs Rider (This is actually a reference to a book, the happiness hypothesis)
Elephant: Brute force, illogical, hard to control
Rider: Voice of reason, able to see farther than the elephant due to better vantage point
Master vs Slave: Who is really controlling whom? Can this even be answered?
Example: Smokers, using pennies in place of fuses, teenage pregnancy, ignoring alarms, etc
Conclusion: Like a battle against gravity, the rider will always lose, yet if he is diligent and always tries to lead the elephant correctly, the elephant can be trained to act out much less.

So what does that have to do with anything? I'm never one to solve a problem by telling anyone (even myself) to not do something. It goes against the grain and human nature will win in the end. That may not apply here since it will be a few days maximum and should be easily doable. It's just interesting that we saw such drastically different ways to solve problems. I'm not an authority in the subject so I can't speak much more on it before reading some papers and primary research.

That was a very convoluted response. I really do miss taking apart a simple subject like that and writing about it for pages at a time... That was just a way of returning to old habits for a little bit.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Straw man. ABS is known to increase braking distance. The debate is whether bald tires are better off with no ABS as it will kick in every time.

the debate is whether you are trolling or truly stupid.

the tires are bald, there's 3" of snow, and you're solution is to defeat the anti-lock braking system?

you're arguing either:
locked tires brake more effectively than non-locked tires?
you are able to modulate brake pressure better than an automatic system?

the car's stopping distance exceeded your estimate and it's the car's fault, not that your estimate was inccurate?

your mother can't handle having someone else replace tires for her, and you expect her to replace fuses under the hood?

 

[Lean L]

ABS is known to increase braking distance in only a specific set of circumstances: something loose like snow or gravel that can build up a wedge in front of a locked tire. In all other conditions ABS is infinitely superior and even in the conditions where normal brakes stop shorter ABS stops straighter and safer.

The REAL debate is whether you're truly stupid or just a really bad troll as nobody but a complete jackass worries about what happens when you drive on bald tires.

Sause? I don't think you can back that up. edit: I misread that a bit. But you the point was in snow...

The REAL debate doesn't make any sense to me. I'll consider that trolling unless you were serious and rephrase it as an actual theory...

 

[desiplaya4life]

Yes. It has saved my life and from a crash.

 

[Lean L]

the debate is whether you are trolling or truly stupid.

the tires are bald, there's 3" of snow, and you're solution is to defeat the anti-lock braking system?

you're arguing either:
locked tires brake more effectively than non-locked tires? Yes
you are able to modulate brake pressure better than an automatic system? [No I'm locking them

the car's stopping distance exceeded your estimate and it's the car's fault, not that your estimate was inccurate?

your mother can't handle having someone else replace tires for her, and you expect her to replace fuses under the hood? I think the car needs to have the alignment checked, it burned through these tires. At any rate, ignore that question as you're getting distracted.

I think many here are forgetting what ABS does. It was designed to give control to the driver not stop the car faster.

 

[rudeguy]

didn't read the thread, don't need to read the usual ignorance.

I live in Michigan and have been driving on snowy, slushy, icy roads for 21 years now. Brakes are your enemy in winter weather. They are a last resort. Go ahead and have AWD, ABS and a thousand other acronyms but the fact is that when you are braking you don't have control over your car as much as you do when you are not braking.

It is actually better to accelerate while steering, you are at least gaining traction. Unless you have spikes in your tread, you do not have full control in winter conditions. And the idiots that thing they do are the ones that put the rest of us in danger.

 

[Lean L]

ABS can increase braking distance in a slippery/loose surface like snow, but it improves vehicle control. It's better to get in a fender bender than drive off the road and into a tree.

That's a good point. I'm speaking from my driving experience of years of driving non ABS so I expect slippage. People who are used to ABS may not have an issue at all with this.

 

[Markbnj]

I think many here are forgetting what ABS does. It was designed to give control to the driver not stop the car faster.

More specifically, ABS maximizes the available braking force by preventing wheel lock. The available braking force may be very low due to worn tires or a slippery surface. That's the bottom line. I think when it first became popular a lot of people felt it was some sort of magic sticky field that got applied to the tires and pavement.

Edit: and as to the original question: of course it is. It keeps the wheels turning which keeps them steering, as opposed to letting the car become a multi-ton hockey puck. Now traction control we could argue about.

 

[Lean L]

More specifically, ABS maximizes the available braking force by preventing wheel lock. The available braking force may be very low due to worn tires or a slippery surface. That's the bottom line. I think when it first became popular a lot of people felt it was some sort of magic sticky field that got applied to the tires and pavement.

Edit: and as to the original question: of course it is. It keeps the wheels turning which keeps them steering, as opposed to letting the car become a multi-ton hockey puck. Now traction control we could argue about.

Okay that's fair. In this case with the T intersection I was arguing that it would have been better to slide around but stop rather than drive past the intersection. I was pretty far from the curb. I'll not be trying to replicate this with new tires so I guess there is no way of knowing for that particular situation. We can say that it depends on the situation to some extent though.

 

[heymrdj]

ABS can increase braking distance in a slippery/loose surface like snow, but it improves vehicle control. It's better to get in a fender bender than drive off the road and into a tree.

This, in most instances of being a dumbass on snow, it's about minimizing damage, not trying to get you out of the consequences of being a dumbass.

 

[who?]

Acceleration causes weight shift off of the front tires causing steering traction to go down.

 

[uclaLabrat]

Think I'll just leave this here:
http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/211_fall2002.web.dir/ben_townsend/staticandkineticfriction.htm

 

[Spungo]

I've been saved by ABS at least once. The road was more slippery than I expected, the car wasn't stopping, and I managed to steer toward the curb. It did some minor damage to the front of the car since modern cars are made of paper mache, but being able to steer the car definitely prevented an accident.

 

[rudeguy]

I've been saved by ABS at least once. The road was more slippery than I expected, the car wasn't stopping, and I managed to steer toward the curb. It did some minor damage to the front of the car since modern cars are made of paper mache, but being able to steer the car definitely prevented an accident.

If you damaged your car, there was an accident.

 

[ViperXX]

ABS allows you to turn your front wheels with a slight better chance of avoiding the obstacle in front of you. It's not just the foot vibrator you think it is.

 

[shortylickens]

ABS is great but if you actually know how to drive properly (which many people dont) you should be able to get by on your skills. Slowly push down the brake pedal, dont slam it.

 

[JulesMaximus]

So long story short, I took my mom's car for a drive today because I didn't feel like warming up my car and hers was already warm. I didn't notice that the front tires were nearly bald.

There's maybe 3" of snow on the ground here and it's slippery as hell. First corner I hit, I gave it twice the braking distance I normally drive with and ABS kicks in hard... Lucky for me there were no cars at the T intersection or I would have hit someone slowly. I used to drive a front wheel drive car with no ABS and it would have stopped in the distance I gave it even if it slid around a little bit. Is ABS really helpful in most cases?

Not only does it increase braking distance, it makes it harder to predict when you will stop. I used to slide around the snow with my FWD for fun when I had a parking lot to myself. Most of time you can tell that you were not going past a certain point but this ABS makes it so that you have no idea where you will be when it finally stops.

BTW, I told her to replace those tires ASAP. I'm thinking of maybe pulling the ABS fuse until she is able to replace them in a few days... Think she will be able to figure out how to put it back in?

Your problem was not the ABS. It was the tires.

ABS kicked in because your tires had no grip. What you are doing is like walking down a flight of stairs that are greased with oil and you are wearing plastic bags over your shoes and you blame the shoe company because you had no grip.

Pulling the ABS fuse is a really bad idea. Replacing the tires is your only solution.