So lets predict where we are in four years

Mxylplyx

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2007
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Now that Trump has won riding on his lofty, yet incredibly vague promises to make America great, lets predict where we stand in 4 years. He has tapped into the despair felt in rusted out towns across the heartland, channeling their misplaced anger into an election victory, and is now expected to deliver something that tangibly makes their lives better. Now when I say misplaced, what I mean is that these people have real hardship that the country must not ignore, yet as is human nature that anger born out of hopelessness has manifested itself in many undesirable ways, and yes I mean a hefty dose of racism and xenophobia. Trump making a splashy show of kicking out illegals or limiting immigration might feel good to them, but it wont do a thing to make their lives better. He has to address the underlying need of these people, which is jobs and opportunity.

My Predictions:
1. No great wall is going to be built, but rather sections of one are going to be built, or existing fences replaced with walls in order to capture the media's attention for a bit and placate his supporters. Congress wont fund a full wall.

2. Republicans, the so called party of fiscal responsibility, are going to double or triple the federal deficit. Traditional Republicans want tax cuts and increased military spending. Trump wants infrastructure which will bring the dems onboard. They'll claim as usual that economic growth will offset the tax cuts despite the dire projections from the CBO.

3. Obamacare is going to be around more than a year into his presidency. Kicking tens of millions of people off insurance roles, many of those being people who voted for him, is not going to make for good politics. You might see Republican held states suddenly wish to adopt the medicaid expansion, as it will now be Trumpcare instead of Obamacare, which suddenly makes it OK.

4. There will be no tax cuts on the rich. Quite the opposite I can foresee Trump increasing taxes on the rich to fund some of his initiatives. The people that elected Trump are not interested in the traditional Republican orthodoxy. I imagine this is about to come as a shock to many Republicans who are suddenly going to pretend that Trump is one of them.

My Hope:

Trump is not a conservative or a Republican, which gives me hope. He has now succeeded in fracturing both parties to pieces, which will allow him to reassemble whatever pieces he wants into a governing coalition. If traditional Republicans, who are a product of the old donor class, suddenly think this is a mandate for them, I think they will have badly misread this election. He is in a position to shed the social conservative baggage that he carried to get where he is at, and do something historic, because I think Republicans are terrified to stand against him, and Democrats are eager to break through the gridlock and get something done, even if they have to compromise on some social or immigration issues. He could propose medicare for all in his first 100 days as an Obamacare alternative, and easily assemble the votes to make it happen, which would make a huge difference in the lives of many of his voters. He could propose massive debt financed infrastructure spending, which democrats would gleefully get on board with, and Republicans would be afraid to stand against him. He could propose middle class tax cuts or increased EITC financed by tax increases on the rich, and Republicans would have to swallow it.

Trump might be incredibly flawed, but his huge ego combined with his go it alone not give a shit way of doing things presents a unique opportunity, as he does undoubtedly want to be the best president ever. Governing in a way that leaves half the country hating him would not serve that goal.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
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I speculated similarly yesterday concerning his ego, and ability to defy his party, giving him an unusual dynamic. It is also my hope he is going to show he is more moderate than anything he blustered about during the election. And that he is going to look to be a uniter, not a divider. The intractable nature of the republican party will not dissipate simply because they won. Bringing them to the bargaining table will be Trump's job. Our country does better when both parties cooperate and check each other's worst traits.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
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Here's basically what I think...

1) More people than now are going to be without affordable health care.
2) Women's health and rights are going backwards about 60 years.
3) A lot of federal protection to minorities and protected classes is going to get shifted back to states where they will get shit on by heavy handed right bending local laws/courts
4) The promise of work and salvation to the rust belt will go unfulfilled
5) National debt will skyrocket
6) A ton of buyers remorse on what we did
7) Dems still will fail to have an answer in 4 years to any of what just happened
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,602
29,319
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Here's basically what I think...

1) More people than now are going to be without affordable health care.
2) Women's health and rights are going backwards about 60 years.
3) A lot of federal protection to minorities and protected classes is going to get shifted back to states where they will get shit on by heavy handed right bending local laws/courts
4) The promise of work and salvation to the rust belt will go unfulfilled
5) National debt will skyrocket
6) A ton of buyers remorse on what we did
7) Dems still will fail to have an answer in 4 years to any of what just happened
Progressives have plenty of answers. The American idiocracy is not interested in those answers because liberals want to destroy the country.
 

13Gigatons

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
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500
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Good God are you wrong. The Trump team already looks bad and we can already tell Trump has no real skills for the job. He will sit on his butt the next four years and let his hired help do all the work and they are the usual suspects that already parade the halls of DC.

Obamacare is gone.
Net neutrality is gone.
Climate change agreement is gone.
Iran deal is gone.

This is a YUUUGE win for the one percent.
 
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glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
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Agree on #1. I think #2 depends greatly on other factors like the economy and whether any wars blow up on his watch. No idea on #3, I'd love to see him replace Obamacare with the 3 pronged approach I've suggested here before but know it's a longshot (remove employer subsidy to fund universal catastrophic, expand HSAs, and expand free clinics/primary care for the poor). For #4 no idea, I could see him mulling over trying to implement something like a flat tax with high standard deduction (like zero tax for under $50k income) but taxes are going to be a complete wild card. I could see him doing anything from a big reduction in payroll tax, or big corporate tax reduction, or eliminating entirely some single class of tax like the estate tax.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,139
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Higher insurance premiums
Higher state taxes
Inflation
Higher unemployment starting around 2018
More government surveillance
More morality laws being proposed
More vanity measures\bills.
Yearly Veteran's day will be joined by a monthly Thank the Troop Thursday.
Lots of redistricting
4 years of blaming Obama for anything that occurs.
Lots of anti science\ anti education rhetoric (If it aint learning that helps you with yer job then it ain't worth learnin!!!)
Raising debt limits
Blowin up stuff.
Lots of talking points about the blacks and the inner cities.
Tokens everywhere in the GOP. Token Black people. Token Gays. Token Women. Token hispanics. all in the name of outreach and market penetration. If Ben Carson spoke spanish and got a sex change then he would become the most powerful man in all of America. He would be like the godfather of politics.
Lots of blaming democrats in congress for all the problems the Republicans had no plans to handle because they spent 20 years thinking defeating all the democrats was the only plan they needed to really work on.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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Progressives have plenty of answers. The American idiocracy is not interested in those answers because liberals want to destroy the country.

But beware of neocon wall street favorites in liberal clothing. That I believe cost Hillary dearly when it came to independent voters. .
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
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1. No great wall is going to be built, but rather sections of one are going to be built, or existing fences replaced with walls in order to capture the media's attention
This is actually ALL that really needs doing, with regard to any actual border wall. And forced media attention on the real situation at the border (more by far to do with the drug war than illegals) would be eye-opening for a lot of Americans.

I wish Trump would go stay along the border for a solid month, running the show right from there, FORCING the issue to stay current with the hack media.


As for four years from now, unfortunately I expect it to be a shitshow, with virtually NOTHING much changed, business as usual. Trump has no real interest in being president, I don't think he's going to magically develop any. My hope is that whoever *actually* runs the show behind the scenes is competent, and beyond that creative enough to have (and implement) some good ideas Trump can then take credit for. But... not holding my breath. It depends on Trump's ego vs. actual ability to know he has NO FARTING CLUE what he's doing- I'm not hopeful that ego won't win.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,602
29,319
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But beware of neocon wall street favorites in liberal clothing. That I believe cost Hillary dearly when it came to independent voters. .
I don't know why you keep saying this. Trump voiced his views about war quite often and they were far worse than anything Hillary was for, real or imagined. So what you are concluding is that independents whose top priority was avoiding more war decided to vote for Trump or not vote at all knowing that Trump would likely result in more war than Hillary?
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
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it appears a portion of trumps base at least is hoping for a depression.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,084
1,505
126
No wall will be built, that ones been obvious. It would be absurdly expensive and there is literally no chance Mexico will pay for it.
Environmental protections will go to shit. I expect fracking/oil drilling in multiple federal parks/wildlife preserves.
Taxes will go up slightly on the middle class, down on the upper class, and skyrocket on the poor.
Consumer protections will disappear.
Parts of Obamacare will be repealed, namely the parts that pay for it. Certain restrictions will be kept in place which will basically bankrupt most insurance companies. Rates will skyrocket.
LGBT rights will take a serious step backwards. (this one is more due to Pence's influence and a GOP Senate/House plus a Trump appointed SCOTUS justice than any policy he'll implement)
Iran will have a nuke in 2 years, Iran or North Korea will use one within 4.
ISIS will make huge gains because Trump will insist on strategy against advice from generals because "he knows more about ISIS than they do".
Banking regulations preventing another 2008 will be repealed, expect another financial collapse before 2024.
Due to rescinding funding on the social safety net a huge number of Americans will die preventable deaths.
Interference at the Fed will cause market panic.
 

Mxylplyx

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2007
4,197
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Agree on #1. I think #2 depends greatly on other factors like the economy and whether any wars blow up on his watch. No idea on #3, I'd love to see him replace Obamacare with the 3 pronged approach I've suggested here before but know it's a longshot (remove employer subsidy to fund universal catastrophic, expand HSAs, and expand free clinics/primary care for the poor). For #4 no idea, I could see him mulling over trying to implement something like a flat tax with high standard deduction (like zero tax for under $50k income) but taxes are going to be a complete wild card. I could see him doing anything from a big reduction in payroll tax, or big corporate tax reduction, or eliminating entirely some single class of tax like the estate tax.

Regarding #2, if he implements pretty much ANY of the policy proposals he has talked about, such as infrastructure spending or big increases in military spending, combined with the tax cuts he has proposed, or even without the tax cuts, it's going to tank the deficit. Please provide some rational explanation of how it would not.
 

Mxylplyx

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2007
4,197
101
106
No wall will be built, that ones been obvious. It would be absurdly expensive and there is literally no chance Mexico will pay for it.
Environmental protections will go to shit. I expect fracking/oil drilling in multiple federal parks/wildlife preserves.
Taxes will go up slightly on the middle class, down on the upper class, and skyrocket on the poor.
Consumer protections will disappear.
Parts of Obamacare will be repealed, namely the parts that pay for it. Certain restrictions will be kept in place which will basically bankrupt most insurance companies. Rates will skyrocket.
LGBT rights will take a serious step backwards. (this one is more due to Pence's influence and a GOP Senate/House plus a Trump appointed SCOTUS justice than any policy he'll implement)
Iran will have a nuke in 2 years, Iran or North Korea will use one within 4.
ISIS will make huge gains because Trump will insist on strategy against advice from generals because "he knows more about ISIS than they do".
Banking regulations preventing another 2008 will be repealed, expect another financial collapse before 2024.
Due to rescinding funding on the social safety net a huge number of Americans will die preventable deaths.
Interference at the Fed will cause market panic.

I'm quite liberal and despise Trump, but I think you are being a bit extreme.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,084
1,505
126
I'm quite liberal and despise Trump, but I think you are being a bit extreme.
I'd say the only one I'm being extreme about is that Iran or NK will use a nuke. I'm quite sure Iran will get one.
The only other thing maybe is my use of the phrase financial collapse. How about serious recession?
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
Regarding #2, if he implements pretty much ANY of the policy proposals he has talked about, such as infrastructure spending or big increases in military spending, combined with the tax cuts he has proposed, or even without the tax cuts, it's going to tank the deficit. Please provide some rational explanation of how it would not.

because trickle down
 

Mxylplyx

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2007
4,197
101
106
I'd say the only one I'm being extreme about is that Iran or NK will use a nuke. I'm quite sure Iran will get one.
The only other thing maybe is my use of the phrase financial collapse. How about serious recession?

Remains to be seen. Once Trump realizes that the rest of the world wont go along with restoring sanctions, and thus pulling out of the agreement will do nothing more than free them to restart their nuclear program with no real consequence, he will backtrack. He also has promised to avoid more wars, so that threat is off the table. He will probably just talk a big game, leave the agreement in place, and then take credit for it by scaring them into honoring an agreement they were already honoring.

Who knows on the economy. Lets remember that Republicans in Congress are still beholden to the donor class. They will not let Trump do many of the dangerous things he has crowed about.
 

NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
3,689
1,224
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Four years? More like 8 months.

I expect a full on Russian invasion into NATO countries and Arabic-Islamic countries.

While, Trump is all like;
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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I don't know why you keep saying this. Trump voiced his views about war quite often and they were far worse than anything Hillary was for, real or imagined. So what you are concluding is that independents whose top priority was avoiding more war decided to vote for Trump or not vote at all knowing that Trump would likely result in more war than Hillary?


Trump has talked a lot.

Have a look at what Hillary has done and supported.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-sachs/hillary-is-the-candidate_b_9168938.html

Creating another upheaval by deposing another despot? We tried that (with her support BTW) in Iraq, and how did that turn out? Even with hindsight she was a concern.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,403
8,199
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I'll make absolutely no comments on global politics/confrontations. That is too much of a unknown on any given day as it is. I have absolutely no idea what a Trump presidency means for our safety or international support.

I have no faith he's going to surround himself with competence. Simply yes men and lifelong string pullers near and dear to the GOP. It won't be a brain trust. Quite the opposite I fear.
 

cliftonite

Diamond Member
Jul 15, 2001
6,899
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Agree on #1. I think #2 depends greatly on other factors like the economy and whether any wars blow up on his watch. No idea on #3, I'd love to see him replace Obamacare with the 3 pronged approach I've suggested here before but know it's a longshot (remove employer subsidy to fund universal catastrophic, expand HSAs, and expand free clinics/primary care for the poor). For #4 no idea, I could see him mulling over trying to implement something like a flat tax with high standard deduction (like zero tax for under $50k income) but taxes are going to be a complete wild card. I could see him doing anything from a big reduction in payroll tax, or big corporate tax reduction, or eliminating entirely some single class of tax like the estate tax.


You've said that the obamacare subsidies take from someone's retirement, their childrens education, etc. How is removing the employer subsidy any different?
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Regarding #2, if he implements pretty much ANY of the policy proposals he has talked about, such as infrastructure spending or big increases in military spending, combined with the tax cuts he has proposed, or even without the tax cuts, it's going to tank the deficit. Please provide some rational explanation of how it would not.

I think you're missing my point which was that deficits are a function of both spending (which you've noted) as well as tax receipts which are greatly impacted by things I mentioned in the post you quoted (economy, wars, et cetera). If the economy is doing well you could have greatly increased spending while deficits are still relatively low, or you could reduce spending and have deficits go up. You can't realistically speculate to the level of "double or triple the federal deficit" when you don't know (or haven't given speculative values for) one half of the formula to calculate it.

And you'll need to turn to one of our Keynesians like fskimospy for some magic thinking explanation of how his infrastructure ideas pay for themselves via some "multiplier effect" or some other bullsh!t. I'm fully aware that infrastructure is a deficit driver whose payoff comes in indirect ways years down the road and thus will never pass a "well does it reduce the deficit or not" test.
 
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