no i was mostly responding tomo123 and meltdown75's yesterdays discussions. referencing of how many without access to internet would be alienated. should have quoted, i was skimming
Wrong thread?
It is in their ToS that they have the ability to remove any features without warning. You agreed to it, anyone that created a PSN account agreed to it.
My ToS say that I can install whatever I want on my PS3. They can attempt to prevent me from doing it, but if I can find a way I'll do it. They agreed to it when they sold me the hardware.
WTF is the point of this whole argument? It's hacked. Life goes on. Seems likely that they'll be able to ban hacked consoles from PSN, which is great - no one else's hacking should affect you.
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My ToS say that I can install whatever I want on my PS3. They can attempt to prevent me from doing it, but if I can find a way I'll do it. They agreed to it when they sold me the hardware.
WTF is the point of this whole argument? It's hacked. Life goes on. Seems likely that they'll be able to ban hacked consoles from PSN, which is great - no one else's hacking should affect you.
No it doesn't:
I said mine, not theirs. I was being facetious. That should have been clear from the rest of that paragraph.
If I had played any games on my PS3 in the last year or longer I might think twice about hacking it, but as it is I look forward to dusting it off.
You haven't played any games in the last year because you're close minded, there have been plenty of great games that were PS3 only.I said mine, not theirs. I was being facetious. That should have been clear from the rest of that paragraph.
If I had played any games on my PS3 in the last year or longer I might think twice about hacking it, but as it is I look forward to dusting it off.
So, since the impetus for cracking it was getting Linux back, how many new distros have shown up?
Originally, everyone wanted OtherOS to write their own software for the Cell, even though there wasn't full access it was good enough. Now you can run homebrew natively, so why would you want to use Linux as an intermediary?
You don't need to access the RSX for homebrew, if you do, get a fricking license to cut code for the PS3 for real and write games, or just cut code for a regular GFX card on a cheap ass PC if you can't afford that.
While theoretically possible, the amount of processing power it would take isn't worth it.
You're seriously uninformed...
First, in Linux you were unable to have full access to the Cell as part of it was used for the hypervisor. Second, according to Sony themselves, the Cell CPU is capable of performing 218GFLOPS, while the RSX is capable of 1.8TFLOPS (which is a bullshit number, it's actually around 400). Lastly, applications such as XBMC can utilize the RSX to hardware accelerate the GUI, providing smoother performance and a much better user experience.
The RSX also has access to it's own 256mb of RAM which is useful in many applications.
The hypervisor virtualization means that it wouldn't require any significant processing power. That what it's designed to do. It's just like running multiple VMs on your PC using Intel's or AMD's virtualization extentions. The VM with the modified firmware would be stopped while the VM with the unmodified one did its thing. It requires a bunch of coding work though, so for that reason alone it may not be worth it.
Haha, you parrot some freely available numbers and call me uninformed? Pfft. All you really state in that post is the RSX would be nice for GUI acceleration. Wow. Yeah, not buying the need for homebrew on the PS3 at all, ever.
You seem a lot into defending this situation, by which i guess you have already bought a couple of PS3s and homebrew em, run linux, watched .mvk and pirated a couple of games over the past 2 months.It takes enough that they dedicate an entire SPE to it
You said "you don't need the RSX for homebrew," I gave you a very good reason that people who actually use the hardware need/want access to it. It's fast, it's faster than the cell. Also, people didn't hack the PS3 to get access to the RSX, they hacked it to get access BACK to anything at all. People were ok with having OtherOS, and then it was taken away. What RSX has to do with this I do not know, and you've moved away from the original argument entirely.
It's quite obvious that you don't appreciate the firmware/homebrew scene. Others do. I frankly don't care if people use it to cheat, and I don't care that it pisses you off. Sony fucked up, whether it was the removal of OtherOS or the TERRIBLE security implementation which was easy to figure out once people actually cared.
At the end of the day though, it's over. The system is compromised and there is nothing you can do about it except complain about the people who did it or use it to cheat, while people who use it for interesting things go on doing it and ignoring you.
Originally, everyone wanted OtherOS to write their own software for the Cell, even though there wasn't full access it was good enough. Now you can run homebrew natively, so why would you want to use Linux as an intermediary?
You seem a lot into defending this situation, by which i guess you have already bought a couple of PS3s and homebrew em, run linux, watched .mvk and pirated a couple of games over the past 2 months.
Um, so then why was the only thing people were bitching about them dropping Linux? I've always known that was bullshit, I just got tired of hearing it when that was not what they were interested in at all.
You can say whatever you want about the people's motives for cracking it (yeah, I'm sure there are those actually interested in low level access and homebrew and everything else, but they're a very small minority), but the motives of the people that have been whining about this for so long are perfectly clear.
I don't care either way, I'm just sick of the dishonest people that are contributing little to nothing but feel like they're entitled to everything.
It takes enough that they dedicate an entire SPE to it
Um, so then why was the only thing people were bitching about them dropping Linux? I've always known that was bullshit, I just got tired of hearing it when that was not what they were interested in at all.
If you'll look further back in the thread, I have not purchased any personally, but the lab I work for at my university has utilized them to test light simulation software for large performance gains. Interestingly, I have an Xbox 360, and I used to have one with a modded firmware to pirate games. Now that I'm not a broke ass college student (still a college student though), I buy all my games, including many of those I'd previously pirated
So...if your homebrewing is in the name of research...why doesn't your professor just hit up sony with a phone call just like the air force did? I'm sure some sort of agreement could be made...unless...there is no university?
I'm assuming you've never been involved in a research project with a university.
It should work like this:
Professor calls Sony
Sony exec calls back
Sony agrees to give away a PS3 which doesn't have the security that retail ones do
Professor receives, runs his program, all is well
It works more like this:
Professor requests from the accounting department money to get a hold of a PS3 for research
Accounting has him send in paperwork showing purpose of PS3
Accounting contacts business development
Business development sees if Sony is on list of partners
It's not, so business development rejects the request
Professor appeals denial
Business development emails Sony's partnership program
Sony denies request for a PS3 which can run unsigned code
Business development comes back to professor and denies request again
Professor calls in favor
Bus dev pushes Sony
Sony agrees if their name is published in the research
Business development can't come to agreement with Sony for naming requirements
Professor gives up.
It's immeasurably easier to bring in a consumer PS3, flash a firmware, and try the software. I wish it was way easier to deal with, but it's unfortunately not.
If you'll look further back in the thread, I have not purchased any personally, but the lab I work for at my university has utilized them to test light simulation software for large performance gains. Interestingly, I have an Xbox 360, and I used to have one with a modded firmware to pirate games. Now that I'm not a broke ass college student (still a college student though), I buy all my games, including many of those I'd previously pirated
They didn't care about Linux the operating system itself, they cared about being able to run their own code on the cell, which they could do through Linux/OtherOS as initially allowed by Sony. Now that the firmware has been cracked, they do not need to boot Linux to run their software first, they can run it natively with higher performance than they ever could before.
The lab I work for is contributing plenty. As a student, I run a few of the projects for one of the professors (not the head of the project) so they can devote more time to their research, and get to be mildly involved. A few of the student researchers are working to further parallelize the software (for GPUs) which simulates the light and it's interactions with the brain. For shiggles they threw it onto a PS3 and saw large performance gains.
You also need to remember that the people who initialy announced there attention to re-enable OtherOS have been served with a court order prohibiting them from doing anymore work on it. Given the current legal atmosphere the only people hacking the PlayStation 3 right now are the ones that aren't concerned that what they're doing might be illegal.
btw. any Linux distro that previously worked with OtherOS should continue to work any restored version of OtherOS.
Like I said, I realize there are some in that situation, but they are very much in the minority, and your attitude towards the other people is pretty ridiculous (which, seems to basically be you don't care at all and are actually pleased that people are using it mainly for nefarious reasons). If anything you should absolutely be more angry about these others than the regular gamers on here, as they are the reason Sony put the security things in place and aren't willing to be more open about using it for education and research. Not to mention, its just going to make Sony less likely to take a big risk on hardware development and implement much stricter security measures in the future.
Considering their place in research and education, I'm not sure why these people you're referencing focused on the PS3, when they should have been working to get their own setups where they wouldn't have to be relying on people cracking the system (and wouldn't have to deal with stuff like the memory setup on the PS3 among other issues). I know IBM was doing things with Cell, so it would make a lot more sense to me if the people seriously interested in Cell development to contact them. If using Cell is that important to their research, I would think they would find funding to get it, or they would have been capable of cracking the system themselves.
To be fair I capitulated to your view and I do understand why you need an unsigned device. I treated you like a pirate, which was wrong, but it's hard to separate the raging software theives from the deserving users, and I put you in the former camp initially.See, this is a reasonable argument, and I have most definitely ratcheted up my line against DBZ and the others a little more than I intended. My problem with their arguments is that they leave no middle ground, and IMO, misplace their anger. I do not think individuals like GeoHot or the fail0verflow crew really deserves any blame for the cheating going on. I fully believe that their anger should be directed towards Sony for both developing a poor security system and removing features from their hardware, even if they do not use that feature.
Individuals like them standing by and letting it happen will encourage other companies in similar situations as Sony to do the same thing. There should be outrage from the owners of the console and it should be on the news. It should not be the geeks and nerds standing up for the rights of the consumer, it should be all of them. It's very frustrating to me that people will just bend over and quote the ToS... We're not that far from Sony just removing the UMD from the software for the PSP instead of releasing the PSP Go to fend off piracy. I hate slippery slope arguments, but we're already half way down this one.
I see no reason why the hacking of PS3 will do anything except accelerate the development of the PS4 if Sony is that worried about piracy. Maybe this time they'll leave the Linux support
There is no focus on the PS3, if you'll read back it was a side project out of curiosity for a few of the students working on parallel computing projects. As I said, the research has no plans to continue to put any effort towards the PS3, because although it's price v. performance is unparalleled, GPUs make more sense for us, as it's a supported implementation and we can upgrade our cluster which already exists.
IBM has a lot of Cell projects which we could have also used, but research is a business, not a charity, and a QS22 server with 2 PowerXCell processors are around $10,000/each. The performance does not justify the price. I could have 33 PS3's for the same cost, 12 Quadro 4000s, or 5 Nvidia Tesla C2050's...
My purpose in bringing in the research is that there are tangible benefits to many people having Linux or hacked PS3's, just because it also allows cheating is not a reason to hate it or even discourage it. Discourage the cheaters and griefers, that's not the fault of the hackers themselves, that's a byproduct of pushing forward. XBMC was originally a project only intended to stream media to hacked Xbox's, but now it's one of the best media centers for every platform. It's constantly referenced because it is the best example. I'm sure soon we'll see the software emulation of PS2 games back on the hacked PS3's etc.