So now that Obama 'Won' will he come to the table?

[shira]

he got his clean bill (fairly clean)

Will he actually negotiate now?

Will the lMSM call him out if he and the democrats once again dig in and wont negotiate? or will the once again run coverage for their democrat buddies?

Yes, he will. But Democrats - in return for making concessions - will expect Republicans to also make concessions. In other words, the Democrats will give up something they want to keep in return for the Republicans giving up something they want to keep. And, no, "giving up something they want to keep" doesn't mean reducing the size of concessions that the other side is being asked to make. EACH side must actually be willing to give up something they already have in return for the other side doing the same.

So, the real question is: Are Republicans willing to actually negotiate?

 

[2timer]

So, the real question is: Are Republicans willing to actually negotiate?

I don't see how they possibly can, to be perfectly honest. The Tea Party members of the House stand to the right side of moderate Republicans on every important issue, and they are the controlling force in the Republican caucus. They are essentially extremists, their position is to NOT negotiate.

Prediction: when the current budget extension ends in January, the Tea Party will be back at the same strategy, only using different tactics. They will lie, spin, extort, use any means necessary to get what THEY want, but they won't negotiate with Democrats. It's a sad state of affairs.

 

[dank69]

That's a highly subjective statement. It's not appreciably different than saying "it's not fair". It's just phrased differently.

Fern

Saying someone is beating you senseless is a subjective statement. It's appreciably different than saying "it's not fair." Now change "you" to "the economy."

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

What does negotiating look like to Republicans?

You give us everything we want, we give you nothing.

Democrats will negotiate when Republicans are willing to negotiate in good faith.

Tell me, what will the Republicans compromise on?

 

[glenn1]

What does negotiating look like to Republicans?

You give us everything we want, we give you nothing.

Democrats will negotiate when Republicans are willing to negotiate in good faith.

Tell me, what will the Republicans compromise on?

One could just as easily ask why Democratic negotiation goes "Your concession is to fix the problems we created in entitlements, and ours will be limiting our tax increases to only several percentage points."

 

[Jhhnn]

What does negotiating look like to Republicans?

You give us everything we want, we give you nothing.

Democrats will negotiate when Republicans are willing to negotiate in good faith.

Tell me, what will the Republicans compromise on?

One could just as easily ask why Democratic negotiation goes "Your concession is to fix the problems we created in entitlements, and ours will be limiting our tax increases to only several percentage points."

Standard deflection, of course.

 

[glenn1]

Standard deflection, of course.

What am I deflecting? I'm not on the negotiating team so I have no idea what either side is ready to offer in concessions. If I were the one negotiating, I've already said I'd be open to tax increases, which for the Republican side would definitely be a concession. Your "concession" was to gracefully allow Republicans to suggest fixes to entitlements that are already going insolvent and to improve the completely shitty Obamacare plan so it doesn't completely flop on its own because of how badly the law was written. Both are mostly problems of Democratic origin.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

What am I deflecting? I'm not on the negotiating team so I have no idea what either side is ready to offer in concessions. If I were the one negotiating, I've already said I'd be open to tax increases, which for the Republican side would definitely be a concession. Your "concession" was to gracefully allow Republicans to suggest fixes to entitlements that are already going insolvent and to improve the completely shitty Obamacare plan so it doesn't completely flop on its own because of how badly the law was written. Both are mostly problems of Democratic origin.

Deflect, deflect, deflect.

You are not the Republicans in Congress. Thus far they have not offered anything remotely approaching a concession. This is because they are pressured by hard lined Republicans to be pure.

We won't see real negotiation until the Tea Party wing is annihilated and not given a seat at the table. They did not come to Washington to govern, they came to burn the house down.

Thus far they have achieved nothing.

 

[michal1980]

Deflect, deflect, deflect.

You are not the Republicans in Congress. Thus far they have not offered anything remotely approaching a concession. This is because they are pressured by hard lined Republicans to be pure.

We won't see real negotiation until the Tea Party wing is annihilated and not given a seat at the table. They did not come to Washington to govern, they came to burn the house down.

Thus far they have achieved nothing.

The house needs to be burned down.


For years things in congress have been done the same way. And the debt has only gone up.


Teaparty elects people that actually want to create real change. Change you fear. So now you want to go back to the good old days. -Republicans agreeing to a 5% increase in the budget vs a 10% increase. The republicans call it a 5% cut, the dems call it a 5% increase. Tax payers get the shaft.

If anything, we need more people like Cruze.

 

[AViking]

The house needs to be burned down.


For years things in congress have been done the same way. And the debt has only gone up.


Teaparty elects people that actually want to create real change. Change you fear. So now you want to go back to the good old days. -Republicans agreeing to a 5% increase in the budget vs a 10% increase. The republicans call it a 5% cut, the dems call it a 5% increase. Tax payers get the shaft.

If anything, we need more people like Cruze.

Real change?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGAvwSp86hY

I want you to watch that whole video.

 

[michal1980]

Real change?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGAvwSp86hY

I want you to watch that whole video.

You linked to a TV show.

LOL.

sorry not watching.

 

[glenn1]

Deflect, deflect, deflect.

You are not the Republicans in Congress. Thus far they have not offered anything remotely approaching a concession. This is because they are pressured by hard lined Republicans to be pure.

We won't see real negotiation until the Tea Party wing is annihilated and not given a seat at the table. They did not come to Washington to govern, they came to burn the house down.

Thus far they have achieved nothing.

So your concession is "no Tea Party people allowed"?

Again, I really don't think you've thought your bargaining positions through. As stated earlier, automatic sequester cuts are going into effect unless an agreement is reached to the contrary. You and Eskimospy seem to think that Republicans' sole objective is changes to entitlements, which you'll trade for tax increases. I disagree that entitlement reform would necessarily be the primary focus of the GOP in negotiations, and I'd argue may not even be a big concern for them at all. But go on thinking that, it's the same progressive thinking that convinced yourselves that Sequestration would never happen because the GOP would never accept the defense spending cuts.

 

[fskimospy]

So your concession is "no Tea Party people allowed"?

Again, I really don't think you've thought your bargaining positions through. As stated earlier, automatic sequester cuts are going into effect unless an agreement is reached to the contrary. You and Eskimospy seem to think that Republicans' sole objective is changes to entitlements, which you'll trade for tax increases. I disagree that entitlement reform would necessarily be the primary focus of the GOP in negotiations, and I'd argue may not even be a big concern for them at all. But go on thinking that, it's the same progressive thinking that convinced yourselves that Sequestration would never happen because the GOP would never accept the defense spending cuts.

I think we can all admit at this point that your ideas as to how Republicans in DC are thinking is flawed at best. Remember all your bragging about how Republicans had everything they wanted and didn't mind the government shutdown/debt ceiling just a few days before their complete surrender? Good thing you didn't take that bet, huh.

I don't think you've read much into the 2014 sequestration cuts; they are vastly more heavily weighted towards defense cuts, which Democrats generally like. Cuts to defense spending in the 2014 sequestration are about $34 billion (5.5% of military spending) Cuts to non-defense discretionary spending are only $9 billion, which is about 1.5% of non-military spending. I am quite certain that the GOP would like to trade those defense cuts for entitlement reforms, but I think they will find that they have little leverage in that situation.

If the GOP would like to accept $4 in defense cuts for every $1 in domestic spending I think you'll find Democrats are generally amenable to that, no matter how foolish it might be from an economic perspective. If the GOP would like to legislate more responsibly or get concessions on entitlements, the price for that will be higher taxes. Pretty simple.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I posted this in another thread but I feel it applies here too, bottom line the Republicans need to accept the concept of negociating is more than simply getting what I want:

Repubs: I want to burn your house down (ACA/debt default)
Obama: No
Repubs: how about I burn the second floor?
Obama: No
Repubs: how about just the kitchen and maybe the bathroom?
Obama: No
Repubs: YOU'RE NOT NEGOTIATING!

 

[BUnit1701]

*SIGH* because demanding the government learn to live with what it has instead of putting us deeper and deeper into debt is 'burning the house down'. You people need to step away from the rhetoric a bit and try to have some perspective.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Dictator Obama thinks he does not need to negotiate. Obama phones and 99 weeks of unemployment and welfare / government cheese for all! And 100% tax rates and 100Trillion in debt, weeee!

Impeach.

 

[fskimospy]

*SIGH* because demanding the government learn to live with what it has instead of putting us deeper and deeper into debt is 'burning the house down'. You people need to step away from the rhetoric a bit and try to have some perspective.

I'm unaware of a single credible economist that did not think refusing to raise the debt ceiling would be an economic catastrophe.

 

[BUnit1701]

I'm unaware of a single credible economist that did not think refusing to raise the debt ceiling would be an economic catastrophe.

The crash is going to come. The longer you put it off, the worse its going to be.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

BUnit you avoided the question. Do you feel defaulting on our commitments was a better idea?

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

So your concession is "no Tea Party people allowed"?

Again, I really don't think you've thought your bargaining positions through. As stated earlier, automatic sequester cuts are going into effect unless an agreement is reached to the contrary. You and Eskimospy seem to think that Republicans' sole objective is changes to entitlements, which you'll trade for tax increases. I disagree that entitlement reform would necessarily be the primary focus of the GOP in negotiations, and I'd argue may not even be a big concern for them at all. But go on thinking that, it's the same progressive thinking that convinced yourselves that Sequestration would never happen because the GOP would never accept the defense spending cuts.

Nobody should be allowed at the table that has no interest in negotiating in good faith.

So long as the Tea Party has any sort of power in the GOP, we won't see any change or substantive progress in this country. You have to come to grips with the fact that you will never get 100% of what you want. Not with a Democratic Senate and White House. Never going to happen.

 

[michal1980]

Nobody should be allowed at the table that has no interest in negotiating in good faith.

So long as the Tea Party has any sort of power in the GOP, we won't see any change or substantive progress in this country. You have to come to grips with the fact that you will never get 100% of what you want. Not with a Democratic Senate and White House. Never going to happen.

LOL.

so your solution is to just not talk to people you disagree with. brilliant.

Democrats plan 'ban/ignore elected officials we disagree with'

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Michal I think the point is try to negotiate with someone who will not sacrifice anything is a complete waste of time.
Think of it this way, you are selling an old car and I offer you $10.00 for it which is a outlandishly low price. How would you handle it? Keep talking to me endlessly even though I will not offer any additional money ever? When do you decide it is pointless to continue?

 

[shira]

LOL.

so your solution is to just not talk to people you disagree with. brilliant.

Democrats plan 'ban/ignore elected officials we disagree with'

The solution to talk only with people who are actually willing to compromise. Is the Tea Party willing to compromise give up anything that the Democrats want? If not, it's pointless to talk with the Tea Party.

 

[glenn1]

The solution to talk only with people who are actually willing to compromise. Is the Tea Party willing to compromise give up anything that the Democrats want? If not, it's pointless to talk with the Tea Party.

Again, be my guest to refuse talks. Enjoy the automatic sequesters for the next 8 years and the failure of Medicare not long after.

 

[Jhhnn]

Again, be my guest to refuse talks. Enjoy the automatic sequesters for the next 8 years and the failure of Medicare not long after.

The sequesters are the result of negotiation & compromise, no?

Perhaps you care to point out what Repubs are offering that Dems might want in their stead?

"Failure of Medicare" is just pure projection & vague reference to possible future extortion, btw. Just another hostage taking opportunity.