So our choice is a lying narcissist or a past his prime standard politician

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Dec 10, 2005
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And in one fell swoop, while people are consumed in the debate, a conservative SCOTUS, brought to you by Trump, says 1) criminalizing homelessness does not violate the 8th amendment, and 2) Chevron deference is scrapped.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,749
34,628
136
Oh good. In addition to amateur historians on firearm ownership the federal judiciary will be the experts on everything else apparently.
 
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Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,793
8,356
136
And in one fell swoop, while people are consumed in the debate, a conservative SCOTUS, brought to you by Trump, says 1) criminalizing homelessness does not violate the 8th amendment, and 2) Chevron deference is scrapped.

Chevron is gonna be a fiasco. Give it time and it'll be second only to "Citizens United" in terms of overall impact.
 
Dec 10, 2005
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Chevron is gonna be a fiasco. Give it time and it'll be second only to "Citizens United" in terms of overall impact.
With this judicial power grab, conservative courts will now get to decide which "experts" to trust in every regulatory review case. Gee, those industry experts sound really convincing vs the (insert agency)'s in-house scientists/experts.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,031
2,601
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With this judicial power grab, conservative courts will now get to decide which "experts" to trust in every regulatory review case. Gee, those industry experts sound really convincing vs the (insert agency)'s in-house scientists/experts.
Yup. I find it odd that on one hand the homeless ruling was based on the idea that homelessness policy is complex and the courts are not in a position to judge what should be done or to make solutions yet for the other ruling they are saying all federal agency policies are not complex and the courts are in perfect position to judge how they should operate.

Just comical. It's literally talking out of both sides of your mouth shamelessly.


At the end of the day, it'll just create thousands of cases for the SCOTUS court to review every year so good luck to those guys for massively increasing their workload.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,749
34,628
136
Yup. I find it odd that on one hand the homeless ruling was based on the idea that homelessness policy is complex and the courts are not in a position to judge what should be done or to make solutions yet for the other ruling they are saying all federal agency policies are not complex and the courts are in perfect position to judge how they should operate.

Just comical. It's literally talking out of both sides of your mouth shamelessly.

Between this and the civil fines jury trial ruling the judicial branch is going to essentially cease to function under the load. There will be tsunamis of litigation gumming it up.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,707
49,290
136
Between this and the civil fines jury trial ruling the judicial branch is going to essentially cease to function under the load. There will be tsunamis of litigation gumming it up.
Every meaningful regulation will now be challenged in a single member judicial district with a friendly judge who will now how enormous latitude to invalidate it. They don't even need to ouija board back to 1789 here like with gun cases, just need some hack to write a paper in support of whatever position they want to hold.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,749
34,628
136
Every meaningful regulation will now be challenged in a single member judicial district with a friendly judge who will now how enormous latitude to invalidate it. They don't even need to ouija board back to 1789 here like with gun cases, just need some hack to write a paper in support of whatever position they want to hold.

I think we're going to see a lot of end runs around this by individual states in both directions. The regulatory landscape in the US could become wildly uneven with major repercussions.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,656
491
126
Ah c'mon buck up.

We're gonna have an entertaining few months until election night by the looks of things.

After all Cheeto-head is pretty much all id. Does anyone really think he's disciplined enough to ride Biden's funny AF "performance" last night to victory?

Sen. Schumer said it himself.


just replace election with "debate" in what Sen. Schumer is saying in the above video.



____________
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,707
49,290
136
I think we're going to see a lot of end runs around this by individual states in both directions. The regulatory landscape in the US could become wildly uneven with major repercussions.
Looking forward to a Bruen-esque situation where a few years down the line after chaos has erupted they will issue a new ruling saying 'no no no, not like that!'.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,749
34,628
136
Looking forward to a Bruen-esque situation where a few years down the line after chaos has erupted they will issue a new ruling saying 'no no no, not like that!'.

SCOTUS is eventually going to do nothing but spend time sorting 5th Circuit decisions into either "Nah, too much" or "Yes, very good this is the law" bins.
 
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Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,840
13,765
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Hey guys don’t forget SCOTUS also said those involved with Jan 6th were treated very unfairly. The most unfairly anyone has ever seen as it was so mean to charge them with obstruction.

EDIT damn it @HomerJS
 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
7,058
7,476
136
And in one fell swoop, while people are consumed in the debate, a conservative SCOTUS, brought to you by Trump, says 1) criminalizing homelessness does not violate the 8th amendment, and 2) Chevron deference is scrapped.

- Bad short term decisions, good long term decisions. I've come around to the "if you want things to change, people need to actually feel the consequences of their vote" and there are a lot of layers of admin state that keep things working without people realizing it.

Part of the reason we're in this culture war non-sense, a lot of people really aren't directly affected by Congress' ineptitude and inability to pass laws. It'll be bad at first, but at some point even Republicans won't be able to ignore the issues.

/Glass half full
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,707
49,290
136
- Bad short term decisions, good long term decisions. I've come around to the "if you want things to change, people need to actually feel the consequences of their vote" and there are a lot of layers of admin state that keep things working without people realizing it.

Part of the reason we're in this culture war non-sense, a lot of people really aren't directly affected by Congress' ineptitude and inability to pass laws. It'll be bad at first, but at some point even Republicans won't be able to ignore the issues.

/Glass half full
I don't see how Congress could get around this ruling and court even if they wanted to. Just look at student loan forgiveness - Congress wrote the most explicitly worded statute you could ever hope for and SCOTUS was like 'nah - still not good enough'.

Regulatory schemes are inherently complex and Congress will never, ever be able to write a statute explicit enough where a motivated judge can't find a reason to substitute their judgment for the FDA or whoever. It's an inherently stupid decision that substitutes the judgment of incompetents for experts.
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
27,979
38,387
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Focus on the SCOTUS!

The only hope for it to be repaired is if magats lose.

Otherwise America continues down the Banana Republican drain, where bribery is legal and homeless people sleeping outside have more to worry about than violent insurrectionists who beat police.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,021
10,197
136
"The Party" did pick a candidate via primary: Joe Biden. But if "The Party" chose a separate candidate via some backroom process, that would go over like a lead balloon. The Party isn't some all powerful entity that can replace people on a whim. They are largely prevented from doing that by rules enacted decades ago to reduce the backroom dealing and allow a more democratic process for nominating.

Do we not remember all the screaming when "The Party", through the primary process, nominated one candidate over another in 2016 and 2020? Could you imagine the uproar if they tried to step in and usurp the primary process through the actions of political insiders?
Or maybe they go to Biden to begin with and ask him to support the notion of standing aside, then provided that he agrees then they're all on the same page. My point wasn't originally about how it should happen, it was about that it's time for Biden to stand aside.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,749
34,628
136
Or maybe they go to Biden to begin with and ask him to support the notion of standing aside, then provided that he agrees then they're all on the same page. My point wasn't originally about how it should happen, it was about that it's time for Biden to stand aside.

Pushing aside an incumbent is no trivial matter though. For either party. This is the 3rd election Trump is standing for despite ample evidence the party would be much better off with a different candidate. RNC insiders can read and know that but I'm supposed to believe that they actually hold the levers of power and not R primary voters?
 
Reactions: Brainonska511
Dec 10, 2005
24,375
7,264
136
Or maybe they go to Biden to begin with and ask him to support the notion of standing aside, then provided that he agrees then they're all on the same page. My point wasn't originally about how it should happen, it was about that it's time for Biden to stand aside.
I don't think stepping aside is worth it, given the party infighting that would result much closer to the election, the loss of name recognition, and incumbency advantage. Democrats would be better off publicly ignoring the suggestion of stepping aside. Stop shooting yourself in the dick and call on Republicans to clean their house, call on compromised SCOTUS justices to resign or be investigated. Now is the time to push back on the fascists, not act like everything is fine and only look inwardly.
 

Udgnim

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2008
3,664
110
106
I've seen some cherry picked clips of Biden and it wasn't a great look, but he's not Trump and he's not the Republican party

so even though Biden looks like a grandpa that should be enjoying retirement, to me a second term of Biden means 4 years of of the GOP not controlling Supreme Court nominations, a President that supports Ukraine, federal appointments that don't sabotage their agency (Dejoy), someone that values country over self in times of crisis (COVID), etc

and hopefully, after a 2nd term of Biden, Trump & MAGA will be weakened to the point of no longer having an outsized influence over the Republican party
 

gothuevos

Platinum Member
Jul 28, 2010
2,019
1,727
136
While I never watch debates because I think they are stupid it seems the consensus is that Trump won because while he was frequently incoherent and constantly lying he did so in a confident manner and Biden lost because he was truthful but also sometimes incoherent but not in a confident way.

And…this is why I don’t watch the debates.

Not a great look for either but Biden literally couldn't even make it down the steps from the stage. Will he even make it to November?

He needs to step aside or it's brokered convention time. The momentum for the latter will grow with every passing week.
 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
7,058
7,476
136
I've seen some cherry picked clips of Biden and it wasn't a great look, but he's not Trump and he's not the Republican party

so even though Biden looks like a grandpa that should be enjoying retirement, to me a second term of Biden means 4 years of of the GOP not controlling Supreme Court nominations, a President that supports Ukraine, federal appointments that don't sabotage their agency (Dejoy), someone that values country over self in times of crisis (COVID), etc

and hopefully, after a 2nd term of Biden, Trump & MAGA will be weakened to the point of no longer having an outsized influence over the Republican party

- That's my general position. Voting against Trump and for the Admin/Platform, not for the man.

At the end of the day the President is always a figurehead. People control the info he gets, how he gets it, when he gets it, and what his options are. The admin is the one really running the country, the President just puts a face on it.

Unfortunately the face of a second Biden term would look something like this, but I'd be willing to look past it for policy:

 
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