So...what positives can we take from the HD2900XT launch?

[gneGne]

Well, it does use more than a GTX, let alone a GTS.

 

[n7]

Noise is not something people are going to ignore, at least not if they owned an X1800/X1900 loud cooler card.

If they priced it much cheaper & their were readily available silent coolers available (like there were for my X1900XT), i wouldn't see it as such a bad thing, but since neither is the case, louder cooler + massive power consumption isn't ideal at all...

 

[Roguestar]

Originally posted by: Mem

So...what positives can we take from the HD2900XT launch?

They have a DX10 card out at last,however pricing is the killer since in the UK they are anywhere from £260-£310,I have seen a Leadtek 8800GTS 640mb for £214,that's £46 ($90)cheaper.

Yeah .

At least we can buy 8800GTSs in good faith now :/...

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: HigherGround
Here's one. People who waited all those months for R600, will finally be able to buy G80 based card with a clear conscious.

if you are already predisposed to being *bitter* you should have bought a GTS ... months ago

we KNEW it would be late AND power-hungry

what HD-2900xt DOES bring is:

1) great performance at sub$400 .. nothing touches it there .. certainly no GTS
[and it has great 'room' for further driver improvement]


2) a decent feature set unique to AMD

3) likely game bundles and further "incentives" .. likely further discounting

finally if you are thinking of spending $800 for an Ultra - but don't want to spend $1600 - X-fired HD2900xts shuld kick ass on ANYTHING in the sub$1000 price range

that is *compelling* to me ... IF i decide to upgrade ... soon

 

[Drayvn]

The positives we can take away is that with the drivers maturing in the next few months that this card will definitly edge out the GTS640 and move up to the GTX but probably never beating it but being closer to it than it being closer to the GTS640.

 

[AVP]

I mean i know the scores are scattered but you are suggesting a pretty big leap in performance drayvn, I myself have thought and said somewhere that I am sure that these scores will get much better and even out more with maturity but I doubt this card will ever approach gtx speeds on the whole...

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: AVP
I mean i know the scores are scattered but you are suggesting a pretty big leap in performance drayvn, I myself have thought and said somewhere that I am sure that these scores will get much better and even out more with maturity but I doubt this card will ever approach gtx speeds on the whole...

that will *never* happen

the HDXT does not compete with the GTX .. that would be a Sub$400 card vs a $600 one
--- an UNfair comparison

the *only* place the HDXT *may* "approach" GTX performance is in DX10 games

maybe .. we just don't know now

otOTHERh ... it DOES compete with the GTS - now - and will likely *surpass it* by an ever-widening margin as drivers mature

 

[swtethan]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: AVP
I mean i know the scores are scattered but you are suggesting a pretty big leap in performance drayvn, I myself have thought and said somewhere that I am sure that these scores will get much better and even out more with maturity but I doubt this card will ever approach gtx speeds on the whole...

that will *never* happen

the HDXT does not compete with the GTX .. that would be a Sub$400 card vs a $600 one
--- an UNfair comparison

the *only* place the HDXT *may* "approach" GTX performance is in DX10 games

maybe .. we just don't know now

otOTHERh ... it DOES compete with the GTS - now - and will likely *surpass it* by an ever-widening margin as drivers mature

price/performance wise......

gts= $329
gtx= $529
xt=$399


i'd rather save $70 for same performance, also there already had been a dx10 bench out


http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/431/17/

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: swtethan

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: AVP
I mean i know the scores are scattered but you are suggesting a pretty big leap in performance drayvn, I myself have thought and said somewhere that I am sure that these scores will get much better and even out more with maturity but I doubt this card will ever approach gtx speeds on the whole...

that will *never* happen

the HDXT does not compete with the GTX .. that would be a Sub$400 card vs a $600 one
--- an UNfair comparison

the *only* place the HDXT *may* "approach" GTX performance is in DX10 games

maybe .. we just don't know now

otOTHERh ... it DOES compete with the GTS - now - and will likely *surpass it* by an ever-widening margin as drivers mature

quote:
Originally posted by: apoppin

quote:
Originally posted by: AVP
I mean i know the scores are scattered but you are suggesting a pretty big leap in performance drayvn, I myself have thought and said somewhere that I am sure that these scores will get much better and even out more with maturity but I doubt this card will ever approach gtx speeds on the whole...



that will *never* happen

the HDXT does not compete with the GTX .. that would be a Sub$400 card vs a $600 one
--- an UNfair comparison

the *only* place the HDXT *may* "approach" GTX performance is in DX10 games

maybe .. we just don't know now

otOTHERh ... it DOES compete with the GTS - now - and will likely *surpass it* by an ever-widening margin as drivers mature




price/performance wise......

gts= $329
gtx= $529
xt=$399




i'd rather save $70 for same performance, also there already had been a dx10 bench out


http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/431/17/

lets try again with the MSRPs

gts= GeForce 8800GTS 640MB MSRP: $439.99
gtx= GeForce 8800GTX MSRP: $619.99
HDxt=$399

do you "get it" now?

 

[swtethan]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: swtethan

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: AVP
I mean i know the scores are scattered but you are suggesting a pretty big leap in performance drayvn, I myself have thought and said somewhere that I am sure that these scores will get much better and even out more with maturity but I doubt this card will ever approach gtx speeds on the whole...

that will *never* happen

the HDXT does not compete with the GTX .. that would be a Sub$400 card vs a $600 one
--- an UNfair comparison

the *only* place the HDXT *may* "approach" GTX performance is in DX10 games

maybe .. we just don't know now

otOTHERh ... it DOES compete with the GTS - now - and will likely *surpass it* by an ever-widening margin as drivers mature

price/performance wise......




i'd rather save $70 for same performance, also there already had been a dx10 bench out


http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/431/17/

lets try again with the MSRPs

gts= GeForce 8800GTS 640MB MSRP: $439.99
gtx= GeForce 8800GTX MSRP: $619.99
HDxt=$399

do you "get it" now?

What you dont get is......How much you can buy them NOW, my pricing chart is real world pricing. MSRP is nowhere near real world pricing at the moment, even on newegg the xt is $409. You do NOT compete MSRP vs MSRP, you compete real world vs real world. The GTX came out at $650 7 months ago and now has dropped to a $530 price, the GTS used to be $500 also but now is $330, was the 2900 out 7 months ago? NO

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: swtethan

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: AVP
I mean i know the scores are scattered but you are suggesting a pretty big leap in performance drayvn, I myself have thought and said somewhere that I am sure that these scores will get much better and even out more with maturity but I doubt this card will ever approach gtx speeds on the whole...

that will *never* happen

the HDXT does not compete with the GTX .. that would be a Sub$400 card vs a $600 one
--- an UNfair comparison

the *only* place the HDXT *may* "approach" GTX performance is in DX10 games

maybe .. we just don't know now

otOTHERh ... it DOES compete with the GTS - now - and will likely *surpass it* by an ever-widening margin as drivers mature

quote:
Originally posted by: apoppin

quote:
Originally posted by: AVP
I mean i know the scores are scattered but you are suggesting a pretty big leap in performance drayvn, I myself have thought and said somewhere that I am sure that these scores will get much better and even out more with maturity but I doubt this card will ever approach gtx speeds on the whole...



that will *never* happen

the HDXT does not compete with the GTX .. that would be a Sub$400 card vs a $600 one
--- an UNfair comparison

the *only* place the HDXT *may* "approach" GTX performance is in DX10 games

maybe .. we just don't know now

otOTHERh ... it DOES compete with the GTS - now - and will likely *surpass it* by an ever-widening margin as drivers mature




price/performance wise......

gts= $329
gtx= $529
xt=$399




i'd rather save $70 for same performance, also there already had been a dx10 bench out


http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/431/17/

lets try again with the MSRPs

gts= GeForce 8800GTS 640MB MSRP: $439.99
gtx= GeForce 8800GTX MSRP: $619.99
HDxt=$399

do you "get it" now?

MSRP is irrelevant, isnt it? Youre not gonna buy stuff at MSRP unless youre dumb so his prices make more sense

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: swtethan

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: swtethan

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: AVP
I mean i know the scores are scattered but you are suggesting a pretty big leap in performance drayvn, I myself have thought and said somewhere that I am sure that these scores will get much better and even out more with maturity but I doubt this card will ever approach gtx speeds on the whole...

that will *never* happen

the HDXT does not compete with the GTX .. that would be a Sub$400 card vs a $600 one
--- an UNfair comparison

the *only* place the HDXT *may* "approach" GTX performance is in DX10 games

maybe .. we just don't know now

otOTHERh ... it DOES compete with the GTS - now - and will likely *surpass it* by an ever-widening margin as drivers mature

price/performance wise......




i'd rather save $70 for same performance, also there already had been a dx10 bench out


http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/431/17/

lets try again with the MSRPs

gts= GeForce 8800GTS 640MB MSRP: $439.99
gtx= GeForce 8800GTX MSRP: $619.99
HDxt=$399

do you "get it" now?

What you dont get is......How much you can buy them NOW, my pricing chart is real world pricing. MSRP is nowhere near real world pricing at the moment, even on newegg the xt is $409

it came out TODAY .. no market forces are acting on it ... your GTX has been out for SIX months .. and you could NOT find one for even MSRP on 8800 launch day

i and i am not buying one *now*

and check back tomorrow or next week when there will likely be HD-2900xt for sub-GTS prices

--the 640MB version - it's real competitor .. not the 320MB ''discounted" version

 

[Killrose]

So if R600 is so electronicaly "leaky" and inefficient, I would imagine they are working on upgraded silicon. Might we yet see an improved chip revision of R600? Overall a big dissapointment, especially due to this being the ATi new flagship not able to compete with the top GPU from nv.

Myself, I will probably be after the 2600XT anyway's depending on perf.

 

[swtethan]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: swtethan

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: swtethan

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: AVP
I mean i know the scores are scattered but you are suggesting a pretty big leap in performance drayvn, I myself have thought and said somewhere that I am sure that these scores will get much better and even out more with maturity but I doubt this card will ever approach gtx speeds on the whole...

that will *never* happen

the HDXT does not compete with the GTX .. that would be a Sub$400 card vs a $600 one
--- an UNfair comparison

the *only* place the HDXT *may* "approach" GTX performance is in DX10 games

maybe .. we just don't know now

otOTHERh ... it DOES compete with the GTS - now - and will likely *surpass it* by an ever-widening margin as drivers mature

price/performance wise......




i'd rather save $70 for same performance, also there already had been a dx10 bench out


http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/431/17/

lets try again with the MSRPs

gts= GeForce 8800GTS 640MB MSRP: $439.99
gtx= GeForce 8800GTX MSRP: $619.99
HDxt=$399

do you "get it" now?

What you dont get is......How much you can buy them NOW, my pricing chart is real world pricing. MSRP is nowhere near real world pricing at the moment, even on newegg the xt is $409

it came out TODAY .. no market forces are acting on it ... your GTX has been out for SIX months .. and you could NOT find one for even MSRP on 8800 launch day

i and i am not buying one *now*

and check back tomorrow or next week when there will likely be HD-2900xt for sub-GTS prices

--the 640MB version - it's real competitor .. not the 320MB ''discounted" version

$329 IS the 640 version...... owned


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133188

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130071



LOL

anything more you'd like to add?

I do not like the fact you would need to buy a new power supply to overclock also, my psu already has a 8 pin taken up by my motherboard.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: swtethan

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: swtethan

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: swtethan

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: AVP
I mean i know the scores are scattered but you are suggesting a pretty big leap in performance drayvn, I myself have thought and said somewhere that I am sure that these scores will get much better and even out more with maturity but I doubt this card will ever approach gtx speeds on the whole...

that will *never* happen

the HDXT does not compete with the GTX .. that would be a Sub$400 card vs a $600 one
--- an UNfair comparison

the *only* place the HDXT *may* "approach" GTX performance is in DX10 games

maybe .. we just don't know now

otOTHERh ... it DOES compete with the GTS - now - and will likely *surpass it* by an ever-widening margin as drivers mature

price/performance wise......




i'd rather save $70 for same performance, also there already had been a dx10 bench out


http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/431/17/

lets try again with the MSRPs

gts= GeForce 8800GTS 640MB MSRP: $439.99
gtx= GeForce 8800GTX MSRP: $619.99
HDxt=$399

do you "get it" now?

What you dont get is......How much you can buy them NOW, my pricing chart is real world pricing. MSRP is nowhere near real world pricing at the moment, even on newegg the xt is $409

it came out TODAY .. no market forces are acting on it ... your GTX has been out for SIX months .. and you could NOT find one for even MSRP on 8800 launch day

i and i am not buying one *now*

and check back tomorrow or next week when there will likely be HD-2900xt for sub-GTS prices

--the 640MB version - it's real competitor .. not the 320MB ''discounted" version

$329 IS the 640 version...... owned


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133188

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130071



LOL

anything more you'd like to add?

I do not like the fact you would need to buy a new power supply to overclock also, my psu already has a 8 pin taken up by my motherboard.

yes ... of course

to be *fair* ... how much was the GTS on it's first day of launch?

Could you even find one for $450?

i think ... not

so you are owned


and i'd ALSO like to "add" in response to your comment [my *bold*]
no ... i *don't* need to buy a new PS to OC .. i already have available an *unused* 8-pin connector


and i see you included the MiR for the GTS as part of its "purchase price"
--better add in the game bundle for the HDXT ... to be more 'fair'

 

[swtethan]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: swtethan

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: swtethan

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: swtethan

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: AVP
I mean i know the scores are scattered but you are suggesting a pretty big leap in performance drayvn, I myself have thought and said somewhere that I am sure that these scores will get much better and even out more with maturity but I doubt this card will ever approach gtx speeds on the whole...

that will *never* happen

the HDXT does not compete with the GTX .. that would be a Sub$400 card vs a $600 one
--- an UNfair comparison

the *only* place the HDXT *may* "approach" GTX performance is in DX10 games

maybe .. we just don't know now

otOTHERh ... it DOES compete with the GTS - now - and will likely *surpass it* by an ever-widening margin as drivers mature

price/performance wise......




i'd rather save $70 for same performance, also there already had been a dx10 bench out


http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/431/17/

lets try again with the MSRPs

gts= GeForce 8800GTS 640MB MSRP: $439.99
gtx= GeForce 8800GTX MSRP: $619.99
HDxt=$399

do you "get it" now?

What you dont get is......How much you can buy them NOW, my pricing chart is real world pricing. MSRP is nowhere near real world pricing at the moment, even on newegg the xt is $409

it came out TODAY .. no market forces are acting on it ... your GTX has been out for SIX months .. and you could NOT find one for even MSRP on 8800 launch day

i and i am not buying one *now*

and check back tomorrow or next week when there will likely be HD-2900xt for sub-GTS prices

--the 640MB version - it's real competitor .. not the 320MB ''discounted" version

$329 IS the 640 version...... owned


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133188

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130071



LOL

anything more you'd like to add?

I do not like the fact you would need to buy a new power supply to overclock also, my psu already has a 8 pin taken up by my motherboard.

yes ... of course

how much was the GTS on it's first day of launch?

Could you even find one for $450?

i think ... not


and i'd ALSO like to "add" in response to your comment [my *bold*]
no ... i *don't* need to buy a new PS to OC .. i already have available an *unused* 8-pin connector

First day of launch is irrelavant (7 months ago, without competition) RIGHT NOW, do you NOT get that: TODAY is TODAY. As of TODAY, GTS= $330, XT = $400

an yes, good for you that you have an unused 8 pin, a lot of us dont.


Im starting to think you are Rollo's other half :Q

 

[apoppin]

irrevalent to *you*

not to me

i have a very *different* PoV than you do

in case you haven't noticed

your view is not "right" because it's "you"

it is 'right' FOR you

just as mine suits me perfectly

you think the HDXT is crap ...fine ... that is your opinion

there is no need to ridicule my view because it is *different* than yours

you think i am a "HD" fan boy ... and you are a GTS fanboy
--so what?

that's WHY there are many different reviews to choose from ... from HardOCPs harsh judgemental minority viewpoint which agrees with you

... to the majority of the reviews that agree with me
:Q







and "pricing" will probably CHANGE - as early as today

and what will you say tomorrow?
:Q

Im starting to think you are Rollo's other half

you mean his evil twin ... his doppelganger .. he IS a nvidiot

and you are sounding more like Gstanfor ... every day

 

[swtethan]

i dont think the XT is crap, it just cannot compete with the GTS because of these reasons:

worse IQ (not much, but still worse)
more power draw (about 50-90w more)
louder cooling solution
8pin needed for overclocking
$70 more

XT wins some benches over GTS, It also loses some.

price/perfomance wise, GTS wins also.

thats the truth.





so: spend $70 less for a card that you can overclock to GTX speeds without drawing more power (XT draws more power than a GTX @ load) AND you dont need a new PSU to do so is pretty good too me (in most cases you would need a new PSU)

 

[v8envy]

Other reasons the HD2900 is not suitable for many people: the noise/heat means it will NOT be useful for homebrew DVRs. Many of those are based on SFF cases. The added noise and heat of a HD2900 and new monster power supply makes the integrated HD audio playback features moot.

The statement of 'nothing in the $399 price bracket can touch it' is patently false. The 640 meg 8800GTS, overclocked or not trades blows with the HD2900 on a title by title basis. Today's pricing is $330 AR vs $409. Those of you living in the future may find the HD2900 a better value, but those of us here today are in a completely different boat.

Lastly, there is Linux support, or the complete lack of it. Only a factor for a minority of people (myself included), but it is a factor.

I'm glad this seems like the perfect solution to you, apop. I can't understand why, but hey -- it takes all kinds. The HD2900 would have to be about 10% less than a 640M 8800GTS for me to consider it at all.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: swtethan
i dont think the XT is crap, it just cannot compete with the GTS because of these reasons:

worse IQ (not much, but still worse)
more power draw (about 50-90w more)
louder cooling solution
8pin needed for overclocking
$70 more


price/perfomance wise, GTS wins also.

thats the truth.

you MEAN thats the truth AS YOU SEE it

lets take then one point at a time

worse IQ (not much, but still worse)

UNtrue ... we have very conflicting reports .. some are saying HD's is better ... at least the AF and there is a better choice of modes
so *undetermined*

more power draw (about 50-90w more)

*agreed* and agreed over and over ... we knew this was coming and i am ready

louder cooling solution

The *reference cooler* ... the partners have a"free hand" ... water cooling, heatpipe, anything goes .. or add your own as many GTS owners do
[ so ... *no conclusion* ... yet]

8pin needed for overclocking

i got two ... so no biggie for me
*conclusion* may trouble some users]

$70 more

after MIR and only for today
[*conclusion* none .. marketing has not affected prices on Launch day .. check back tomorrow] so wait a little unless you are buying one TODAY - IF price bothers you on Launch Day

price/perfomance wise, GTS wins also.

not supported by the majority of reviewers

it is *your truth*
IF i had a GTS i would NOT consider CONSIDER swapping it for a HD-XT

clearly your PoV is influenced by what you already have

as is mine


EDIT: v8envy, thanks - you do get it

The HD2900 would have to be about 10% less than a 640M 8800GTS for me to consider it at all.

it *will be* at least 10% less than the 640-GTS when/if i buy it

just a NOTE ... ati didn't but AMD *loves* Linux
EXPECT good linux drivers with the HD-XT

an apoppin prediction
an i can support it with links

but now i gotta WORK and EARN a new video card
:roll:

c-ya!

aloha

 

[Wreckage]

If they could just bring down the power draw, noise, heat and price - it would be a pretty good card.

If it had a quiet single slot cooler running about the same wattage as a GTS320 and cost $299 with everything else the same, it would have been a home run instead of a foul ball.

 

[swtethan]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: swtethan
i dont think the XT is crap, it just cannot compete with the GTS because of these reasons:

worse IQ (not much, but still worse)
more power draw (about 50-90w more)
louder cooling solution
8pin needed for overclocking
$70 more


price/perfomance wise, GTS wins also.

thats the truth.

you MEAN thats the truth AS YOU SEE it

lets take then one point at a time

worse IQ (not much, but still worse)

UNtrue ... we have very conflicting reports .. some are saying HD's is better ... at least the AF and there is a better choice of modes
so *undetermined*

more power draw (about 50-90w more)

*agreed* and agreed over and over ... we knew this was coming and i am ready

louder cooling solution

The *reference cooler* ... the partners have a"free hand" ... water cooling, heatpipe, anything goes .. or add your own as many GTS owners do
[ so ... *no conclusion* ... yet]

8pin needed for overclocking

i got two ... so no biggie for me
*conclusion* may trouble some users]

$70 more

after MIR and only for today
[*conclusion* none .. marketing has not affected prices on Launch day .. check back tomorrow] so wait a little unless you are buying one TODAY - IF price bothers you on Launch Day

price/perfomance wise, GTS wins also.

not supported by the majority of reviewers

it is *your truth*
IF i had a GTS i would NOT consider CONSIDER swapping it for a HD-XT

clearly your PoV is influenced by what you already have

as is mine


EDIT: v8envy, thanks - you do get it

The HD2900 would have to be about 10% less than a 640M 8800GTS for me to consider it at all.

it *will be* at least 10% less than the 640-GTS when/if i buy it

just a NOTE ... ati didn't but AMD *loves* Linux
EXPECT good linux drivers with the HD-XT

an apoppin prediction
an i can support it with links

but now i gotta WORK and EARN a new video card
:roll:

c-ya!

aloha

So you dont think the GTS wont drop in price even more? Interesting how you see things. If its $70 less than a XT now, somehow magically the XT will be 10% less than a GTS when you want to buy it... cause the GTS wont change its price AT ALL....

 

[KeithTalent]

Positive things:

1. If that one review was any indication (can't remember which one) it seems as if there may be major improvements around the corner due to updated/optimized drivers. :thumbsup:

2. At least they did release a card, as I had read many rumours of this not even happening after the aquisition/merger.

3. It looks cool!

Cheers,
KT

 

[jim1976]

Granularity FTW

 

[Pugnate]

In winter if you don't have a heater you can...